I'm having trouble making a decision. I have a client who was raped, the details are too bad to go into, nor are they relevant. I have just started working with her, where she is slowly talking about it, but still having a lot of trouble in both trust and not wanting to remember. Yet I have known her 2 years and worked through childhood issues, this is brand new.
My question is whether it would help or hurt her if I disclosed my incidents? While she isnt there for me to get therapy, I'm wondering if my revealing would let her know I understand her pain, or would it be counter-productive.
In our training, some people say that a therapist should never disclose, and they show the evidence to back up their view.
Other people say some self disclosure is fine...not too much, but enough to build trust and rapport. It helps the client to talk and feel safe.
So....I'm wondering if anyone here can offer advise on this, how you would feel if your therapist disclosed? Would it help or hurt?
Thanks...
Don't do it. I had a therapist do it. It was
not rape, but he had tried to commit suicide
by setting himself on fire. It made me feel as
if he needed something that I could not offer
him and it was similar to my pain only in that
it was pain, and it was confusing to me since
I was trying to not stuff my own pain. His was
already all over his body in scars. I sort of
resented being put in the position to validate
him and while he was trying to get me to share
mine, all I could think of was mine could not
touch his and what was the point...in addition,
in the aftermath, I was aware that I was paying
cash for him to vent to me about his suffering.
Also, when you have stuffed something that you
are prepared to pay to get help to excavate, it
is disingenuous to have someone else say they
know how you feel. Or at least I found it a bit
offensive.
Thank you for helping....I was thinking that way...but was able to understand her pain and confusion. While I knew not to go into details...I wasnt sure if some disclosure would help. Life with real life people in pain is far different than class discussions. Part of the issue is I have worked with her for 2 years, through lots of ups and downs...successes and not so good moments. I am trying to get her into treatment with someone far more qualified, but she refuses. So for now...I am her support. Sometimes life just sucks...so thank you for your help.....
Hey, Sparque - Zoe made very valid points. It is never a good idea (no matter HOW much we think it might help) to disclose any personal information about what we have (or, have not) Survived.
When we disclose personal information, it opens up the counselor/client boundaries, among other things. Another problem of allowing clients into our personal lives is that it takes the focus off of the client's issues - whether we mean for this to happen, or not, is not the point. The client will, more often than not, view a disclosure as a sort of one-upmanship EVEN THOUGH the disclosure was not meant in that way.
So, I agree with Zoe 100% - keep your Self to yourself where your clients are concerned. In the meantime, I would strongly urge you to seek your own personal counselor in order to help you to process some of the information that you've already witnessed and to help you to prepare for those events that are yet to come. Without an objective eye, most counselors to at-risk kids invariably become jaded, overwhelmed, desensitized, and lose their desire to help these poor kids.
Well...what a difference a day makes. I broke down and saw a psychiatrist. I walked in and just opened up. I figured, why do the game thing, tell only small parts, etc. After an hour and a half session, I think he was a bit overwhelmed with my kids...since his practice is mainly white, middle class and up....where I work....affectionately known as the ghetto.... section 8 housing, multiple families in an apt. Lots of gangs, drugs, all the fun stuff you find in the inner city...
After talking, telling him what I was feeling, thinking, going through, he did some assessments, went through some steps...etc and he made a decision to try some meds and some talk therapy...
one day on the meds...while too soon to tell...maybe some placebo effect...but for half the day, I felt tons better, had a better connection with my kids, felt more in control. Even after a group session with my kids...and the issues of abuse popped up again...I didnt feel that overwhelming sense of sadness and despair...who knows....maybe the me I want to be is going to come out.
Sparque, I'm sorry that you're having so much difficulty - it's one of the prices of choosing to help others, unfortunately. And, rest assured, you aren't the first counselor to ever have to cope with this type of experience.
I don't understand why you were prescribed medication, though. Feeling anxiety over what you've been privy to is not cause for chemical alteration - we ARE supposed to feel and empathize! If it were me, I would use serious caution with respect to the use of ANY prescribed medication or "recreational" self-medication, at this time. The suggestion of talk therapy is definitely more sound than the use of meds. And, you'll want to find a COUNSELOR/THERAPIST (not a psychiatrist, but a psychologist) who specializes in abuse to help you hone your tools, sort your emotions, and take back control of this situation. Psychiatry is not the same discipline as psychology, though it often seems that the two intertwine.
As for boundaries, my training was quite different in that we were all taught that opening up our personal experiences could really throw some monkey wrenches into what we were trying to accomplish - getting women (mostly women) away from their abusers. One volunteer counselor had to take a good, long break from her work because she had opened up her Self (Self is that Life's Spark that makes us unique) to a client who then used the counselor's mistakes/decisions in an attempt to justify and rationalize HER actions: i.e., "YOU did the same thing, and everything worked out for YOU!" This went on and on until the client left the shelter with her kids, went back to her abuser, was beaten sufficient enough to keep her hospitalized for 2 weeks, and the counselor took the whole thing as a personal failure. With that in mind, it is often difficult to keep our mouths shut in reference to sharing with our clients - it seems like such a good idea at the time to let a client know that we've experienced something similar. "I understand how you feel," sounds sort of hollow without backing up the statement without providing an example of a personal experience. I began saying, "I can't imagine how that would feel," even though I knew precisely how they felt. That simple statement opened the door for MANY women to start pouring out the venom of their experiences. And, yes, I sure did cry with some of them - there's nothing wrong with sharing emotion! But, sharing Self is a delicate, dicey proposition. A good psychologist will be able to help you to sort all of this out.
For me, talk therapy was not sufficient to get to the core issues. It required a much more experiential type of therapy which addressed all levels of my being. If you find that talk therapy is not sufficient for you, and you want to stop taking medication, I would suggest that you consider other alternatives. It is not necessary that your therapist be a psychologist. My therapist was a licensed clinical social worker. The academic training and title is not what's important. A therapist can only take you as far as they have gone themselves in their own healing!
Personally, I would not see a therapist that was solely focused on pathology! I would only suggest someone who was deeply rooted in human potential and had an understanding of the greater capabilities that are inherent to all of us!
This is a very tough call. I have been trained as a clinical psychologist and I am very aware of all the studies and theories about therapists essentially remaining a 'blank slate', and also about boundaries between clients and therapists. There are very valid points on either side of this issue, with far fewer who believe that a therapist should disclose things in their own history to a client.
Rather than studies and theories, though, I will say what worked for me. I had worked with several different therapists over a course of many years. I had addressed many, many things in my therapy, although I still wasn't getting at the core of the issues. I was very blessed to have found one therapist that was very different than all the rest that I worked with. First and foremost, she was a very real human being with me. And I grew to trust her completely because she was open and shared many, many things from her past. I believe that there is a key component here, though, that made this OK for her to do. She had resolved the emotions around all the events that she shared with me so there was no residual energetic charge to them. I never once had a feeling that I needed to take care of her in any way, nor that the things she told me made her a weaker person. Quite the contrary! I saw in her an amazing strength and the willingness to tread into territory that no other therapist had been willing to enter with me! Frankly, I don't believe that I would gotten to the point that I am today had it not been for this therapist and her willingness to be so open and share so freely! One other thing; her work also encompassed far more than what most would consider to be 'therapy'. She worked psychologically, spiritually, and energetically, as well. When I think of 'mother' and who actually raised me, this woman is the person that comes to my mind!
Frankly, with someone who has been deeply abused in any way, they are very unlikely to really get to the core of there pain without developing a very highly trusting environment. And I believe that level of trust will not come from someone who hides behind a 'therapist' mask. In order for someone to feel it's safe for them to disclose what has happened to them and heal the root of their pain, they must have a very deep level of trust in a therapist, and that therapist must be, first and foremost, a fellow life journeyer and a real, live human being.
I'll also add that the psychological notion of boundaries are rather contrived, at best. We are energetic beings who are sharing the same source, and I would ask anyone to tell me just where they believe their boundary is!
Thank you for all your words.
The reason I started with the meds has nothing to do with this client. I have been dealing w/ things for some time now. This was just the catalyst to get me into the dr. office. W/ just one day, I felt so much more in control. Yes, I still feel for my clients, but this way, I was more connected with them, able to hear them better, not being distracted, mind wandering, etc. On day 2, I got more things done in the morning than I normally get done in a full day.
I have been in talk therapy before, dealing with the issues that were tearing me up, causing me immense pain. The issues are pretty much resolved, just every now and then, the images and memories pop up, trying to gain new life.
But for the last few years, I've been struggling with being overwhelmed with work, school, life. Dealing with this girl brought it all to a head. She was able to bring out emotions / feelings that I assumed were under control. Then again, what she endured is worse than bad fiction. That SVU TV show wouldn't even write it because it is too unbelievable.
She knows many things about me, in the course of our working together, nothing too deep, nothing that would cross ethical lines, but enough where trust has been established. It is just that the depth of her attack and trauma, she is closed off to everyone and everything. I still don't know what happened at the hospital, but she hates counselors due to something that happened with the rape crisis counslor. Yet she will talk with me. She will only give me brief descriptions, small amounts of detail, then shut down. She frequently misses appts. Sometimes, she comes in and sits quietly....the silence doesn't bother her, which is unusual. Sometimes, she comes in, sits...and falls asleep. That lets me know I am trusted. So that is why I am grappling with the thought of letting her know I was attacked, no detail, just to let her know I can understand or relate to her fears. That I know about the nightmares, fear when alone, fear of strangers, noises at night.
My previous therapist revealed her attack, not in any detail, but where I felt safe, not like I was being watched and studied. The little things, hearing a sound, a smell..something that reminded me of him..just those little things only a surviver can truly and deeply understand.
"She knows many things about me, in the course of our working together, nothing too deep, nothing that would cross ethical lines, but enough where trust has been established. It is just that the depth of her attack and trauma, she is closed off to everyone and everything. I still don't know what happened at the hospital, but she hates counselors due to something that happened with the rape crisis counslor. Yet she will talk with me. She will only give me brief descriptions, small amounts of detail, then shut down. She frequently misses appts. Sometimes, she comes in and sits quietly....the silence doesn't bother her, which is unusual. Sometimes, she comes in, sits...and falls asleep. That lets me know I am trusted. So that is why I am grappling with the thought of letting her know I was attacked, no detail, just to let her know I can understand or relate to her fears. That I know about the nightmares, fear when alone, fear of strangers, noises at night."
A few things you might want to consider; we do not have the clearly defined boundaries that most people think we do. Example: I remember very clearly working with one therapist and I had been frustrated for some time because I just wasn't getting past some barrier. I told her one day in a session that I felt like I had this big gaping hole inside of my that I just couldn't fill. I was sort of looking straight ahead when I said this, and not at her. And very quickly, out of the corner of my eye, I detected a look of horror on her face. In that instant, I knew that I had just hit on Her main issue! And that the reason that I was feeling so stuck was because she had not resolved this for herself, and consequently, she didn't know how to help me! It was shortly after this session that she referred my to Ellen, the therapist I posted about. At least I was very fortunate to have a therapist whose ego wasn't getting in the way of doing what was in the best interest of her clients!
I'm wondering; could this client of yours actually be protecting you from your own emotional reactions? And this could either be to unresolved emotions that you have about your own experience or it could be an attempt to protect you because she senses that you might not be able to handle her whole story.
My suggestion, for whatever its worth, would be for you to stop trying to figure out her motives, intentions or reasons for her behavior and simply ask her instead! Ask her if she trusts you. Ask her if she wants to hear your story. Ask her what it is that she wants from you. You might be very surprised by her answers. This is a magic question!
My last therapist used to ask me this all the time. Sometimes I used to get so aggravated with her, and then I realized that, in asking the simple question, "What do you want from me around this?", she was teaching me how to think! Instead of spoon-feeding me, she was forcing me to figure out what it was that I wanted, and making me articulate it! She even stood me in the corner once, facing the wall (and with her hand on my back for support), and made me think my way through what it was I wanted in that particular moment. And what did I want? I wanted a hot bath! And guess what? She went into the bathroom, filled the tub with water, and allowed me the luxury to take a hot bath while she cooked dinner in her kitchen! (She worked out of her home.)
Some people would say this is outrageous! Why?! That is what I wanted, it was a simple request, there was nothing inappropriate about it, and, in allowing this, she honored my ability to think for myself and validated what I wanted. Simple! We are not the complicated creatures that our intellect would like us to believe that we are! Our deepest wants and needs are really quite simple and easily fulfilled when it boils right down to it! And I see so many people, and especially therapists, doing far more than they need to when it comes to 'helping' people, and it is actually detrimental. One of the greatest gifts that this therapist gave to me was the firm belief in me that I could figure out for myself what I wanted and needed. She had no interest in 'saving' me, and she made me work hard and really reach for whatever I wanted! And in taking this stance with clients, a therapist communicates to the client that they are trusted, highly regarded, and perfectly capable of figuring things out for themselves! This fosters confidence and independence far more than all the analysis, intellectualization, and all the lip service that is given to 'boundaries'! Can all therapists work in this way? Absolutely not! This only works with therapists who have truly healed themselves before they go about trying to heal someone else! And, personally, I believe that is the way it ought to be, anyway! There are far, far too many therapists that are trying to heal themselves vicariously through their clients!
And also ask yourself if you really want to hear her whole story! And if you are not prepared to hear her story, for whatever reason, ask yourself just how effective do you think you can be with her!
Sadly, most therapists are far too busy with their own head chatter and second-guessing all sorts of "whys?" about their clients behaviors instead of just actively listening to their clients and really getting to know them as fellow human beings! Frankly, I believe that 'therapeutic space' and all the talk about 'boundaries' is more about protecting the therapists than about assisting their clients! And it's a whole different ball game when the therapist has truly healed their own 'issues' and maintains that space out of genuine concern for the client instead of out of their own self-protection from their own emotions and issues! When a therapist maintains this sort of 'warm' detachment, then they are creating sacred space! This does not occur with the emotional distance and hierarchical structure that is more commonly implemented. It is in sacred space that true healing takes place!
Wow...i do agree with you on this. And while I thought I had worked through things, this caught me so totally off guard, I was stunned, shocked, and extremely saddened. I am trying to get her to see another therapist, because I know I am in over my head. I want the skills to work with her, and yeah...I do want to save her. Yet I know she also needs to work. Part of the problem is she is still in crisis mode, and she is refusing to see anyone, except me. I have even gone so far as to tell her I will go with her to do an introduction. She took it as a rejection, so I'm not pushing it like I was. I am able to hear her story, I have gotten myself in order, just sad. She is that one client who gets into the heart. While I care about all of them, there is more with her. I want to take her pain away, I want her reclaim her normal teenage drama, and her innocence. I want for her to be a kid again.
I think she is trying to protect me from the whole story. I also think she is trying to protect herself. She has said she doesnt want to remember anything and is trying to block it all out. I've told her the mind doesnt work that way. And that there will the time she needs help, will need to talk about it. It can be in a day, week, or years from now. But there will be that time when she needs to see someone. I also said that I don't want her to go through years of hurting, making mistakes that could be corrected by dealing with the issues now. This is when she started talking. Instead of horror on my face, I was filled with sadness. How could people do this to a child. How could a child endure this.
I do like the suggestion on asking her what she wants. Does she want to hear my story, and does she want to tell me hers. This is one of those "no duh" suggestions. Basic common sense questions that never occurred to me.
I have been a victim myself (not of rape) but neverthe less a victim of violence.
I was surprised by the answers!
For me, if my therapist had of told me that she had expierenced my situation I would feel I could relate to someone who totally understood.
That was what kept me from going in the first place, because I thought how can someone help me who has not experienced the situation? Sure it's easy to say that someone has the documentation to show they studied for their degree but unless you wear the shoes you really don't get it. (In my humble opinion)
I think that is why groups like A.A. and weight watchers have had success because they are all people who have been in the same situation and they can relate to one another.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that one really has to be careful, what is right for one person is definetly not right for another.
Thank you for your words....The more I think about it, the more I have to agree. I wish I could remember the person who posted before you who said I should ask her if she wants to hear my story. To me, that is so right on. I am meeting with her briefly tomorrow, then on wed or thurs for a private session. That is when I will bring up the subject and say, if you want to hear my story, I will tell you, if not, I understand. Just realize I am here to listen, and help.
But I agree, and that is how it was with me. Someone who not experienced this can be as empathetic and compassionate as a saint. But until you have been put in that position, you are just an outsider. When i had my previous therapist, as I was telling the accounts, I felt like an animal in a zoo....being observed. When I was given to a new therapist, who had been a victim, it just felt right. But, this therapist had dealt w/ the issues and wasnt getting treatment through me...at least it didnt' feel that way.
But, each person is different, and with her, being able to tell her about my past just feels right. I think it will help validate her and help her to open up. And in that, I'm hoping to get her strong enough to allow me to refer her to someone far more qualified in this area.
I will just say one thing, I went to a health centre for an allergy test the other week, the guy who did it was also a therapist. We got talking about some of my long term problems and quite deep familly issues and he relayed some of his personal stories onto me, not in depth, but he mentioned that what i had gone though, he had also had simliar experiences as a boy. I was a bit shocked to be honest, as i thought it was in the 10 rules of therapy or something that a therapist should never do this. But it did make me see him more on my level, made him seems more human, and I felt like as he had experienced simliar things he could help me more. But also a small part of me felt that he wasn't compltely 'over' his events and if he wasn't, how was he supposed to help me?
I have had a councillor and a psychoanalyst before and they never admitted to me any of their problems or told me much about themselves, i think this made them come accross as a bit 'perfect' like they had no problems and i could see why this would be an advantage if they are supposed to help you with your issues.
if a therapist of some sort actually broke down or seemed quite upset whilst telling me one of their problems i would definitely be thinking that it wasn't a good idea to see them for help.
EDIT: obviously the subject matter i have mentioned is not the same as yours, i have not suffered rape or sexual abuse and so dont know if that changes anything or how i would feel about disclosure in those instances. i *think* i would have the same opinion.
I'm going to come in from a completely different direction. I've read
your posts in different threads, as well as some of the responses on this
thread.
If in fact you are a professional counselor - and you are coming to curezone
for an answer to the question that you have raised, there are several things
that need to be addressed.
1. Your glaring lack of counseling experience is booming right through
your questions - as well as some of your responses.
2. You yourself have professional resources right in your own back yard
that you should be contacting instead of a group of non-professionals here on
curezone.
3. From within your own resources and your own experiences, if you
don't have an answer to this question - then you have no business being a
counselor.
I've recovered from sexual abuse PTSD and with more than one counselor I
played the role of counselor on many occasions, while they were the
client. I felt it many times over and it angered me to no end.
W/out going into great detail, you seem to be still dealing w/ a lot of things, so I wish you luck. As I have said, each professional gives different opinions. I am hoping for the opinions of those who have lived through events, not just read about it.
I'm sorry my asking has caused you such discomfort. And as I have previously said, her issue is far beyond me. I have someone more qualified ready to see her, but at this point, I am the only one she is willing to talk to. So, should I just tell her no, get lost? It sounds like you are of the type who when playing counselor, might just be the type that met her at the hospital. She was nearly pushed her to a break forcing her parents and the dr. to tell the crisis counselor leave.
So, I guess if I can't come to a place like this for some insight, where else, but to a bunch of so called professionals who learned life through books and give text book answers.
Well I'll tell you, you've got it backwards about who's dealing with
what. I ignored your post about being in "over your head" with a
client - just shook my head that a counselor would come to curezone for advice
about that. You - if you are licensed, obviously have your own support
network or you wouldn't be counseling. If you can't get your answers
through your network, I guarantee you that curezone is not an alternative.
Then, you post about "Is it right to disclose" and I shook my head
again for the same reason - but didn't answer - until - I saw your post on Men
Raped. That's when I got burned up and if you don't think that anger is a
correct reaction to someone like yourself, you don't know what's going on
anywhere. Here's what you said over there:
"7 years, 70 years...when it comes to a violation like this....time
seems to stand still. There are times I still feel the burn and pain. The
feeling of degradation, hurt, humiliation. But I do have to disagree with
needing to forgive......."
That really got to me. This is the remark of a professional counselor
whose clientele have been sexually abused???? You still feel the burn and
the pain? I have no problem with that statement from someone who has been
abused. That’s pretty normal for most anyone. But at the same time
it is obviously a statement by someone who has not yet recovered from their
abuse – and that’s no problem for me either, until I recognize that the
person who has not yet recovered is now out counseling others with similar
difficulties. And now you wish to share your details with a client?
No way! Not at this point. You want to share your pain with you
client because your haven't yet resolved your own. Guess what? You
are going to continue to get more and more clients with that type of abuse until
you let go of the pain from your own abuse - and then you will really have
something.
Then you made another remark on the Men Raped forum that says “But I do
have to disagree with needing to forgive. I thought that cliche went out in the
80's……<snip> …To me, apathy is the best way to let go. Not some
forced need to forgive. I will leave that to God, the Buddha, or whatever else
is the final judge.”I agree
that from a counseling point of view there is but one purpose and that is to
address the needs of the client.I
believe that is the goal of the client, for the one who has been abused- address your own issues first and then see what happens.My own experience has been that as I addressed my issues there within me
arose a need to forgive my abuser.Until
I did, I wasn't at peace with myself regarding this issue, and being at piece
with myself is what life is all about.
Several
years ago I had the good fortune to take a three day seminar at Esalen with an
eminent psychologist, one Edith Eva Eger, a sexual abuse therapist.Her own story is one of the most amazing that you will ever find.She was arrested in
Hungary
along with her sister and mother and father and taken to
Auschwitz
, at age thirteen.Even at this age
Edith was a gifted dancer with a promising career ahead of her.On her first day in camp she was asked to dance at dinner for Dr. Josef
Mengele, the famous “doctor death” of the Nazi concentration camps who had
personally greeted her and her sister at the train, earlier in the day.As requested she danced, even knowing as she did that her mother and
father had gone up in smoke in the afternoon before dinner.While at Auschwitz Edith stole a loaf of bread from a bakery to take back
to share with her sister and as she was climbing back over the fence from the
bakery was caught by a Nazi guard.The
guard commended Edith for her fortitude and then hit her in the back as hard as
he could with the butt of his rifle.That
crippled Edith for life, so brutally that she would never dance again.She spent several months in
Auschwitz
before being transferred to another camp and was finally found in a pile of
bodies by an American G. I.
The
seminar I took from Eddie was on Forgiveness.This woman learned in her healing process that she had to forgive
everyone.She said that she wished
she could find that soldier that hit her and thank him.Thank him for what?She said
“..because he was supposed to have killed me.”She also said that she had to forgive Hitler.She said that it took a long time and a lot of work to get there, but
that was her only path to happiness. Edith now does speeches and seminars
to all sorts of groups and her message always is one of love and
forgiveness. This woman knows how and spreads it around.
Spraque
with a statement like: "There are times I still feel the burn and pain.
The feeling of degradation, hurt, humiliation. But I do have to disagree with
needing to forgive......." you still have burn, humiliation, pain, and
all that goes along with it that needs to still be worked on. There is
nothing wrong with that at all. However, until you neutralize it and the
burn and pain and degradation are virtually eliminated, I seriously doubt your
ability to provide proper support for those who have gone through similar
experiences.
I
have no idea what you mean about reading a book on counseling - I've read loads
of them about the sexual abuse of male children by adults, but where I'm coming
from is not what I got out of a book, it's what I've learned from my own self
healing process. When the PTSD from sexual abuse as an infant hit me, I
moved furniture and a computer into my bedroom and only came out to eat, shop
for groceries, and counsel - for a period of six months. I've been through
the terror, the 15 to 20 minutes of sleep awakened by the most horrible
nightmares one can image, but I got through it, without medication even though I
was suicidal and they tried to force me to take it. So I've walked the
walk. It was not easy, but I know the route, and I've done a load of
forgiveness. I eventually became a volunteer counselor for others who were
dealing with significant life issues. What brought on the PTSD was but one
of my childhood abuse experiences, and by far my most terrifying, so it wasn't a
one item agenda, there were many items. Added to that I have endured the
thick of combat as well as an air disaster in which a friend was killed and I
survived, but the PTSD and sexual abuse was by far the most terrifying
experience of my life.
If
you seem to think that a little anger means that I haven't worked through my
"issues" - you're sadly mistaken. I can get angry because I've
worked through my issues. If you aren't in touch with your feelings you
are out of touch with reality and your statement about apathy is a good
indication that you are not in touch with your true feelings. Anger is a
fantastic healing energy when appropriately used.
Thanks
for indicating that you had the good sense to ask your client to move to someone
else, because it's my opinion that what you should still have her do.
I don't want this to turn into a war or rant or personal type attack. If my previous post came across that way, my apologies.
I can't abandon this client because I lack the skills necessary for her. My goal at this time is to get her stable, functional, reduce the terror and self destructive impulses. In doing that, I'm hoping to undo the damage the crisis counselor at the hospital did, getting her agreeable to seeing someone more talented and capable.
One thing I have learned, survivors/victims, whatever term is most agreeable to you is that things can be fine. After years of therapy, working through all the issues, and feeling fine, things can trigger, bringing about old wounds and feelings. I only hope that will never happen to you or anyone you know. But the ordeal she experienced, was a trigger for me. I have talked w/ support providers, getting myself back in order. Am I perfect, I only wish. Will I have other triggers in the future, I pray not, but I may. Other therapists say that this is not uncommon. So I feel inclined to believe them. A person can go years, decades, doing wonderful, then something can be a trigger. So hopefully you are cured, whatever that is, but I discovered I'm not. But I"m also not a wreck, nor helpless. Maybe that is why my clients feel a closeness and safeness with me. They see a strength that is willing to continue the work and fight.
As for the forgiveness issue. That one that is a personal choice. I would never impose that choice on anyone. If they wanted it, fine, I will help work with them to achieve that goal. If other aspects of their life are in order. And I can understand the woman wanting to thank the guard. One client was beaten by an attacker because he didnt want his partner to rape her. The lesser of 2 evils it was reasoned.
I just need to repeat, I agree that she needs help from someone more qualified. I'm just not willing to throw her away because I lack the skills. I saw what someone who is highly qualified did to her in the hospital.
My reasoning for coming here, I repeat is to hear from victims, and maybe therapists who deal with this. How would a victim feel if their counselor was a victim. Would the trust / bond be there and help in the treatment or would it pose problems. Nothing more. So, do I want to hear from a bunch of people who have just read the books and had classes or do I want to hear from the people who lived through it. My thoughts, at this time, are the people who lived through this ordeal, what worked for them, what didnt work for them. I hope this helps clarify.
"One thing I have learned, survivors/victims, whatever term is most
agreeable to you is that things can be fine. After years of therapy, working
through all the issues, and feeling fine, things can trigger, bringing about old
wounds and feelings. I only hope that will never happen to you or anyone you
know. But the ordeal she experienced, was a trigger for me. I have talked w/
support providers, getting myself back in order. Am I perfect, I only wish. Will
I have other triggers in the future, I pray not, but I may. Other therapists say
that this is not uncommon. So I feel inclined to believe them. A person can go
years, decades, doing wonderful, then something can be a trigger. So hopefully
you are cured, whatever that is, but I discovered I'm not. But I"m also not
a wreck, nor helpless. Maybe that is why my clients feel a closeness and
safeness with me. They see a strength that is willing to continue the work and
fight."
Yes I've run into triggers, but rarely run into them any more. At one
time I believed that I would have to live with my terror, but on a less intense
level. I've found that not to be the case. You really can heal all
the emotions around the incident(s) - and like you, I'm far from perfect but I'd
much rather be where I'm at now then say even 5 years ago.
"As for the forgiveness issue. That one that is a personal choice. I
would never impose that choice on anyone."
I couldn't agree more in the case of working with someone when they are the
client. I wouldn't even bring the topic up. However, for the
counselor I believe it is extremely important. Apathy is like death.
The two are equal and if you are apathetic about your abuse you are stuck and
have stopped healing. I know a man who was abused on about the same level
I was and he visited a psychiatrist for over 5 years to get through the issues
around it. He was (probably still is) a fantastic guy, but he hates his
father and mother with a passion. He wasn't stuck, he had feelings.
If he's comfortable with that, that's his choice. (After he grew up, his
father was murdered and no one ever caught the murderer. My friend figures
that his dad had abused a neighbor boy and that someone got even, and my friend
was tickled to death over it.) Yet what I learned after first recognizing
the intense hate I had for the individual that caused my PTSD and clearing a lot
of that out of me, was the immense love that was underneath it. You don't
have hate without love. It took forgiveness and releasing a lot of hate to
get to the love, but that alone was worth the process, and I think that's what
people who don't wish to or don't consider forgiveness are missing. I
don't even think they are aware that love is available beneath all the crud and
now one is telling them. That's what I love about Edith Eger. She
was filled with love. Getting to the immense love that's within each of us
is a process, and it's available to all of us, abused or not.
"How would a victim feel if their counselor was a victim. Would the
trust / bond be there and help in the treatment or would it pose problems.
Nothing more. So, do I want to hear from a bunch of people who have just read
the books and had classes or do I want to hear from the people who lived through
it. My thoughts, at this time, are the people who lived through this ordeal,
what worked for them, what didnt work for them. I hope this helps clarify."
I understand, though I'm still not in agreement, but at least you know what
you were looking for.
I counseled for several months and yet I don't feel that the counselor
(considered one of the best in the area) did that much for me, other than to
point out things that I never considered abuse were in fact abuse, and rather
intense. What I used the weekly counseling sessions for was to gain
information and insight and then take it home to my daily meditations. It
was my meditations - kundalini meditations, that got me through the first year
and what has continued to assist in my healing process. I never believed
what I was told when I first learned meditation - a few years before the PTSD,
that I had all my own answers within myself. But after almost 30 years of
practicing meditation I'm now a firm believer of that truth.
Nothing better than a good meditation sitting. I've been using some easy, fun yoga techniques. Mainly the breathing, guided imagery, along with non stressful poses. Seems the kids enjoy this, and being in a group, it helps build trust.
And, yes, I don't want her or anyone stuck in hate mode. Takes way too much energy, time, emotion. Perhaps my use of apathy was not the best, but I hope my example helped. I just want her healthy, moving through life with as little baggage as possible. But apathy about the abuse...never. Apathy about the abusers, not feeling intense in hatred, fear, rage, revenge. that is what I want. If something bad happens to those guys, so be it. I don't want her to dwell on hate.
And I thought I was past the trigger phase too. Take me back 6 weeks ago, I was fine. Something about this case / client just brought it up. I'm glad I recognized it quickly and went to see someone instead of falling into the trap of getting depressed all over again, becoming ineffective.
Your points are all good, and in a way, I think we are saying things very similar.
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