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MMS - Sodium Chlorite Content Simplified

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  • MMS - Sodium Chlorite Content Simplified by  #95262  5 year  11,139  MMS Debate
    MMS - Sodium Chlorite Content Simplified

    MMS, as manufactured to the specifications described in Jim Humble’s book, is not 28% sodium chlorite but rather 22.4%. This is explained in Part II Chapter 15.

    The sodium chlorite used in the manufacturing process is technical grade 80%. As stated in Thomas Lee Hesselink, MD’s overview, “On the Mechanisms of Oxidation of Chlorine Oxides”, the remaining 20% is a mixture of the usual excipients necessary in the manufacture and stabilization of sodium chlorite powder or flake.

    MMS is therefore not simply sodium chlorite and distilled water but more precisely:

    ~ 72% distilled water (H2O)
    ~ 22.4% sodium chlorite (NaClO2)
    < 5.32% sodium chloride (NaCl - table salt )
    < 0.28% sodium hydroxide (NaOH - lye)
    < 0.28% sodium chlorate (NaClO3)

    It is important that the actual sodium chlorite content of MMS NOT be overstated and the actual ingredients of MMS not be understated. The trace quantities of the remaining sodium chemicals listed above are considered nontoxic.

    Further, 22.4% sodium chlorite in 4oz aqueous solution of distilled water is not a “hazmet” (hazardous materials) chemical. This is important to understand when assumedly educated individuals refer to MMS as “hazmet” while either naively or disingenuously referring to regulations surrounding the transfer of bulk, concentrated/non-diluted sodium chlorite powder.

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    • Re: MMS - Sodium Chlorite Content Simplified by  Johny Apple Bomb  5 year  5,298
      Exactly. I think I remember reading a rebuttal by Jim Humble that pointed out those same facts.

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    • Re: MMS - Sodium Chlorite Content Simplified n/m by  ldsfireguy  5 year  5,262     Reply   FCK   TinyMCE
    • Re: MMS - Sodium Chlorite Content Simplified by  SilverFox  5 year  5,311
      Hello 95262,

      Nice try, but I don't believe you are entirely correct.

      MMS is a 28%, by weight, mixture of technical grade sodium chlorite.

      While its effectiveness may be slightly less due to "impurities" in the technical grade, it is, never the less, still a 28%, by weight, solution.

      It is referred throughout the book as 28%, and the mixing directions have you meter out portions to enable you to make a 28%, by weight, solution.

      The "industry" offers other concentrations as well. One is 31%, by weight. Another is 25%, by weight. Another is 5%, by weight. Finally, it appears that "stabilized oxygen" is a 3.5%, by weight, product.

      All of these concentrations are manufactured using technical grade sodium chlorite.

      There are hazmat regulations for concentrations greater than 5%, by weight, but there are exemptions for small quantities of the higher concentrations, once again by weight.

      I agree that a single 4 ounce bottle of 28%, by weight, solution does not have hazmat shipping requirements, but it still is a strong oxidizer and should be handled carefully.

      Now, if you pack up several 4 ounce bottles and exceed the exemption total amount, there may be some interpretation required of how the exception applies. Does it apply to the single package product, or the sum total of product shipped together in the same package?

      In order to verify this information, I would suggest that you consult the UN shipping codes for chlorite solution.

      By the way, you forgot to also list that technical grade sodium chlorite can also have sodium carbonate, and sodium sulfate in it as well as the other "impurities" you listed.

      You are free to call MMS a 22.4% effective solution with impurities added, but I will bow to the industry standard and simply refer to it as 28%, by weight, technical grade sodium chlorite in solution, and for short, 28% chlorite solution.

      You might also want to check in with the American Chemical Society to better understand the nomenclature associated with various chemicals.

      Tom

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      • Re: MMS - Sodium Chlorite Content Simplified by  biosafe  5 year  6,093
        Tom, please read my post to r4000 and go to how is sodium chlorite is made.

        powder is made from liquid
        maximum strength permitted to be made and transported in liquid is 31%
        OH NO THAT MEANS THAT 28% IS MADE FROM 31%. Yes yes yes!

        There are no different grades of sodium chlorite,
        'Tech grade' is the name given to 80% sodium chlorite powder only!
        there are no other strengths of tech grade sodium chlorite.
        but there are different strengths of liquids, here are your answers.

        1. 1% sodium chlorite = 10,000 ppm of sodium chlorite
        2. 5% '' '' = 50,000 '' '' '' ''
        3. 25% '' '' =250,000 '' '' '' ''
        4. 28% '' '' =280,000 '' '' '' ''
        5. 31% '' '' =310,000 '' '' '' ''

        Available chlorine dioxide from sodium chlorite when fully activated is 60% of sodium chlorite %.

        So as above:
        1. =6,000 ppm available chlorine dioxide
        2. =30,000 ppm available chlorine dioxide
        3. =150,000 '' '' '' ''
        4. =168,000 '' '' '' ''
        5. =186,000 '' '' '' ''

        Now, from someone involved 10 years ago with the developments of Acidified Sodium Chlorite activation with different GRAS (generally regarded as safe) acids you should listen to me. This was done in conjunction with a State Government Department in Australia. The conclusions of ours and others tests and information was posted internationally for industry to adopt as standard world wide. This was done!
        Come on Tom: Industry standard for years when activating with Citric Acid is as follows.
        Citric acid (100%)added to a solution of sodium chlorite at 1:10 will release 20% of the available chlorine dioxide.
        I supply a 50% liquid citric acid, as do all the other suppliers around the world.
        50% citric is thereby added to a sodium chlorite solution at 1:5.
        A 10% liquid like MMS protocol talk about should be added to citric at 1;1
        But it's not is it.
        You were so close when you started referring to facts in front of you like using dip sticks and you understood "hang on this needs to have a volume to treat", it is from there the learning begins.

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      • Re: MMS - Sodium Chlorite Content Simplified Again (for Tom) by  #95262  5 year  5,363
        Since your reply may serve to confuse some, I will re-clarify. The title of the original post was "MMS - Sodium Chlorite Content Simplified". I did not write that MMS contained 22.4% technical grade sodium chlorite powder. That it contains 28% technical grade sodium chlorite powder is obvious and was, in fact, what was written. The point of the post was that MMS contains 22.4% ACTUAL SODIUM CHLORITE, period. It wasn't a "nice try" and it IS entirely correct. The author stresses this point to make sure the reader does not miss it.

        This is covered by two separate writers in two separate chapters of the book.

        CHAPTER 15

        "MMS consists of 28% sodium chlorite powder dissolved in distilled water. (Since sodium chlorite powder is only 80% sodium chlorite and cannot be manufactured any more pure than that, THE ACTUAL PERCENTAGE OF SODIUM CHLORITE IN MMS IS 22.4%.) (When mixing use 28% sodium chlorite powder by weight and 72% distilled water). Sodium chlorite powder is 80% sodium chlorite and 19% is table salt (sodium chloride) and less than 1% of several other sodium chemicals that are considered nontoxic. Be careful here. Do you see why a 28% sodium chlorite powder mixture is only 22.4% actual sodium chlorite? IF YOU DON'T, READ IT AGAIN. The powder is only 80% sodium chlorite." - J. Humble

        CHAPTER 21

        "The procedure as used by Mr. Humble follows: A 28% stock solution of 80% (technical grade) sodium chlorite (NaClO2) is prepared. The remaining 20% is a mixture of the usual excipients necessary in the manufacture and stabilization of sodium chlorite powder or flake. Such are MOSTLY sodium chloride (NaCl) ~19%, sodium hydroxide (NaOH) <1%, and sodium chlorate (NaClO3) <1%. THE ACTUAL SODIUM CHLORITE PRESENT IS THEREFORE 22.4%." - Thomas Lee Hesselink, MD

        *Note that "MOSTLY" does not mean ALL (referring to excipients).
        *I did not refer to MMS as a "22.4% effective solution with impurities added". MMS (properly prepared) is precisely as described above.

        SUMMARY: The ACTUAL percentage of sodium chlorite in a single bottle of MMS prepared to spec is 22.4%. No more, and no less.

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        • Re: MMS - Sodium Chlorite Content Simplified Again (for Tom) by  SilverFox  5 year  5,243
          Hello 95262,

          I did not have any problems with your title:

          [quote 95262]"MMS - Sodium Chlorite Content Simplified"[end quote]

          However, I do have a problem with your first sentence:

          [quote 95262]"MMS, as manufactured to the specifications described in Jim Humble’s book, is not 28% sodium chlorite but rather 22.4%."[end quote]

          I was simply pointing out that this statement is not entirely correct. MMS is a 28% solution of sodium chlorite, but because of impurities it actually works out to be a 22.4% solution.

          I think the book does a very good job of explaining this, it was your statement that I had problems with.

          Concerning the make up of the impurities in sodium chlorite salt, once again I have no problems with the explanation in the book, but you were listing "precise" amounts. When I look at a chemical breakdown that is more precise, and the complete makeup of the product is not known, I usually find a last entry that goes something like "Trace amounts of other elements."

          I am sure if we were talking face to face, this misunderstanding would have quickly been worked out and we would have come up with better wording to explain it. However, here we are on the internet and we end up hashing it out over a few posts...

          I do have a question for you...

          [quote 95262]"It is important that the actual sodium chlorite content of MMS NOT be overstated and the actual ingredients of MMS not be understated."[end quote]

          Why is precision in this matter important? We are dealing with drops of MMS and are told to vary the number of drops according to varying conditions. We are told that the drops of activator vary from 2 - 5 times the drops of MMS used, but also that a little more is no big deal. Activation times also seem to be variable. And, we are given a wide range of dilution amounts.

          Let's take a moment and look at drops.

          Ask any chemistry student how many drops there are in a milliliter and the most common answer will be 20. Jim Humble states that he uses 25 drops per milliliter, and that is OK because there is some variability in drop size. The actual range goes from around 15 - 25 drops per milliliter. However, do to the higher specific gravity of a 28% solution of sodium chlorite, Jim says that there are 17 drops MMS per milliliter. Dr. Hesselink goes a little further and mentions that Jim is using a "large caliber dropper."

          I actually had my son, who is studying chemistry, demonstrate and teach me how to dispense drops. He told me the "trick" is to avoid dribbles and squirts and to take your time so each drop is fully formed.

          Jim Humble places importance on close measurement of the MMS solution, and that is something that I have control over. He simply states that sodium chlorite crystals are not pure, and I have no control over that at all.

          Perhaps it would be easier to simply use industrial standard language, as Bruce has suggested, and call it 168000 PPM available chlorine dioxide.

          Tom

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    • Re: MMS - Sodium Chlorite Content Simplified by  sodium  4 year  4,964
      just short note
      the sum of the percentage in your figures is not correct
      sodium

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