Charlie has a bad habit of erasing messages and altering them to mock the poster, so here is what I posted on his forum, let's hope he can seriously answer this question, because as it stands it looks as though Charlie has really put his foot in his mouth this time.
Charlie you say...
"Now here's the point of this post; People need to be more responsible and culpable for the things they post. I have no problem with the information some post about the ingredients of one liver tonic. But it's when people take that knowledge out of context, run with it like a gossiping little girl just to show people how important they are without feeling the least bit responsible whether that specific combination of herbs will be good for a person or not . . . then I get annoyed.
All the herbs in the printed tonic were good herbs. But I have atleast 4 various combinations of herbs for different liver conditions. They're carefully selected to a person's specific make-up. Otherwise, there could be potentially harmful side-effects depending on the individual's conditions. That's my concern."
*******Before you got your forum you were giving your recipe out to people without telling them the amounts of herbs to use...where is your responsibility in that???
Seriously, you have way to much time on your hands.
I dont't think anyone cares what you have to say. It just
seems that you like to stir up trouble.. Why don't you let
it go. I bet you will feel a lot better
Well, I understand that you are taking his tonic and want to remain upbeat and supportive, I am simply pointing out the fact that not too long ago Charlie placed his liver tonic recipe on curezone where anyone could take that information and run with it, as he would say. He claims now that it is irresponsible to give out this recipe because it is too dangerous and must be monitored by the most talented of ALL herbalists, Charlie Benhauser.
This puts fear into people. Furthermore, he has been putting down other recipes of herbal tonics claiming too that they are irresponsible. It appears that only Charlie Benhauser is capable of administering herbs to all people and we lowly non-herbalists are incapable of selecting herbal remedies for ourselves.
In addition, I think his goal is to scare people enough that they will be afraid to go out and make a tonic on their own and this is not the spirit of CUREZONE, this website is here for people to learn to help themselves and share information.
While I am sure his liver tonic along with consultations is convenient and much easier than trying to make it own your own, I don't see why he needs to frighten people into believing they can't experiment, especially for those who are in a financial bind and can't afford to risk it, or prefer to know what they are injesting, the latter I think is a big reason why many won't be interested in buying his tonic.
I'm sorry that you are having so much stress over this. Really. No, I'm not being sarcastic. I'm sincere.
I don't know what's going on with the altering of messages. That's a problem that I don't want to deal with; and hope it doesn't happen to me. I would contact him directly and work it out; and I would work it out. But that's my way. If I should fail, I would contact the Webmaster and every moderator that I know. I'm real sure that won't happen to me. I think we have a good working relationship now.
I've been working on my health symptoms since 1968. They started well before that. I've been several routes, from herbs to parapsychology to allopathic. Nothing has worked. No one seems to be able to diagnose me. For my constipation, the allopathic doctors say, "Drink more water. Eat more fiber. Exercise." I say poo-poo. I've tried all the diets. Nearly all the diets (not fruitarian). For my sinuses, they pretty much say the same thing; but they also convinced me to have surgery for deviated septum. I was stupid then. Well, more stupid. At least the naturopathic world tries harder. My recent ND says fungus.
So, I've chosen the naturopathic world - all the way.
What I'm getting at is that I have tried so many things. Herbs were not even promising. I tried various combination and quantity. Now think of the law of combination and permutation. Even after 40 years, I would think I would find the right combination. That law is defeating me; far too many combinations. So, there's Charlie. He has experience and technical knowledge of the herbs. He is my latest weapon.
It does not bother me that he does not divulge his ingredients or quantity of ingredients. As you say, the ingredient of at least one formula is posted. That does not help, if it does not match all of my symptoms. Hence the consultation and monitoring. Through consultation, I will let him know if I react to certain herbs; because, I have experience too. I need the experience of his "tweaked" formulae. The cost of the consultation is reasonable to me.
I've tried herbs and things that should have killed me. Fortunately I'm somewhat cautious and try not to overdo it. Sometimes I'm so miserable that I am willing to take more risks. I feel like I did with MMS and mega-iodine; and certain substances of the 60s and 70s. Here I am. Still fighting.
Try to get a grip. Tell him your concern; not just your problem but why you are concerned. It could help us all. You have his email.
I admit this is getting too complicated for my feeble mind; but you said:
"Charlie has a bad habit of erasing messages and altering them to mock the poster"
That's what you said.
Then you are calling him irresponsible for not divulging his ingredients; and then said that they were already posted. Problem? So, it must be the quantity of such ingredients at the issue. If that is not the issue, then it must be that he has changed his mind in divulging any more; perhaps because he feels that individuals will be careless. If not, it must be that you feel harassed my his manners. That is what should be addressed. To him; not the world. I made my point based upon this.
You said, "perhaps the backed up toxins have prevented you from seeing that." It is not Charlie's manners that are in question in my mind.
"I am simply pointing out the fact that not too long ago Charlie placed his liver tonic recipe on curezone where anyone could take that information and run with it, as he would say. He claims now that it is irresponsible to give out this recipe because it is too dangerous and must be monitored by the most talented of ALL herbalists, Charlie Benhauser."
***My argument stems from Charlie's post on Responsibility, where he points out how dangerous it is to take herbs without HIS guidance.
He is using scare tactics to keep people from trying to make the tonic on their own without HIS guidance.
I find this kind of behavior very irrisponsible for the simple fact that this website was designed to help people help themselves, by sharing FREE information. Those who can afford to splurge can turn to the sellers here on CUREZONE, like Charlie, but those willing to experiment with making a tonic on their own should not be discouraged by Charlie.
Glad your in a position that you can afford to buy his tonic, but I suspect you will be shelling out quite a bit more than you realize to get the relief that you want...
"I find this kind of behavior very irrisponsible for the simple fact that this website was designed to help people help themselves, by sharing FREE information. Those who can afford to splurge can turn to the sellers here on CUREZONE, like Charlie, but those willing to experiment with making a tonic on their own should not be discouraged by Charlie."
That's not how I see it. Sorry. That's why I told my experience with trying to find he right combination of herbs or protocols in my message.
I agree that CZ is set up for the sharing of experiences. I don't believe that Charlie is discouraging you from making your own tonic. I believe he is discouraging you/us from making tonic based upon his list of ingredients; without his explicit instruction. Your post pointed to mandrake. That would be one reason not to want people to suffer through experimentation. Hmmm. Sounds like Oleander soup. But that is just one list of ingredients. It does not mean that it will help you. You would have to keep experimenting with other combinations; as I have for decades. Each person reacts differently to these herbs. Some require monitoring.
That's what Charlie is offering - tailored tonic and monitoring. Sorry it is not for free. There may be other forums, on CZ, that can help you. I wish you well on your health quest.
Also, Charlie offers free preliminary consultation. Maybe you could appeal to him regarding your financial situation. I could not hurt. He could say forget it. But I'd sure give it a try.
"he is discouraging you/us from making tonic based upon his list of ingredients; without his explicit instruction"
Well, then why did he post his liver tonic recipe and give it out to anyone and everyone on CUREZONE before he got his forum? If it is so dangerous why would he tell people the ingredients and how to cook it up?
*example*
"Hi, Naturalist. Nice to meet you.
This is my basic recipe: cascara sagrada (aged bark), american mandrake, oregon grape root, barberry, rhubarb rt. (not garden variety. Latin name is rheum palmatum), dandelion rt. (not roasted, but the raw), wild yam rt.
This is a good, overall tonic. It "FEEDS" the liver so that it does its job of producing bile."
I should not be answering for Charlie. Let me speculate a moment. I remember there was an irate poster that was only upset; because she did not want to take anything where she did not know the ingredients. Would you? Me neither. But Charlie is not obligated to go beyond that. Just the ingredients. Now, people with compromised immune systems or pregnant will know; and can decide whether it is a risk.
Honestly, I think you would do well to contact him; as I said originally. I have found him easy to talk with. I believe he can help you in several ways. You have his email addr. Please try.
Comes down to basic physiology. Can a body rebuild fast enough to have the almost instant cures Charlie credits his products have???
Not so physiologically, it can't happen that fast. You may feel a bit better because his product does indeed help the liver but to rebuild a body overnight or within a week simply can't happen on a physiological level.
With a congested liver the poisons back up into the rest of the body. Thereby slowing and poisoning all the other organs and tissues and literally packing away into the various cells of the body the poisons. Sorry Charlie but it takes much longer than a week for these poisons to purge from those cells. Especially if the liver has been congested for years.
Then you have to consider the rebuilding process the cells have to go through to get them up to a reasonable level of health to further cleanse themselves and their surounding environment. And to provide the rest of the body what that particular group of cells creates for it.
Sorry, takes more than a week to do that. It take 7 YEARS to completely rebuild a body. Seven YEARS. To expect anyones product to do that in a day or week is simply obsurd. It's physiologically impossible.
With the liver congested for any length of time fouling the environment the rest of the body has to live in as those cells distant to the liver go through their cycles of living each new cycle will be less healthy than the previous cells.
So you get the liver decongested. That's a start but now even the liver has to regenerate so it can do it's filtering job normally and that doesn't happen overnight. Takes time for all those good herbs in the liver formula to get the liver cells healthy. Again, sorry Charlie - Basic physiology.
Once the liver is decongested immediately the first thing that happens is the blood has to be cleaned up a bit. If the livers been congested for any length of time the liver itself won't be able to do that very efficiently. But at least now it's doable.
As the liver gets healthier the blood will get cleaner eventually getting to the point where the cells can start their detoxing. Once the cells start cleaning out the rest of the organs start getting healthier. But man, it don't happen overnight or even a week. It's a process. The longer you've been sick the longer the process.
The cells in the other organs have to rebuild too. And again that doesn't happen overnight. Sorry Charlie.
And then there's the parasite issue that is completely denied. The product may indeed have some antiparasitic value, I hope it does because I have yet to see cancer eliminated without killing the parasites.
Also the dietary issues which are never addressed. Not much sense getting the liver decongested if the body doesn't have the necesary ingredients to rebuild itself. What are the requirements there??? For sure the colon has to be adressed. Even the increased bile from a decongested and healthy liver will not put the good germs back after prolonged antibiotic therapy. So you better eat the right things to reestablish normal flora in the intestines.
And you better drink the good water (distilled) to keep the internal environment clean (joints and arteries). And you better take the right oils to keep the calcium and hormone levels adequat. And you better learn enough about all the poisons in the food to stop poisoning yourself and of course no drugs at all.
Charlie your product may indeed be a good liver tonic and food but basic physiology states it cannot do what you say it does in the length of time you say it does.
I suggest you try a good antiparasite product and do a series of liver flushes. See for yourself whether they are valid or not.
And it's not possible to argue with me. I know of what I speak, I've been "terminal" and have heard all these quick fixes and so-called cures long ago. I wasted 14 years on all thsoe empty promises before I discovered how to get healthy. And it takes much more than one simple liver tonic to do so.
Just wondering about your time schedule for healing. What I'm getting at is that the eyeball can heal 3-4 layers of damaged cornea in about 1-2 days. That's quick for a soft tissue to repair itself.
On the other hand, if a bone, which has a much greater molecular density, can heal in 6-8 weeks, why can't the softer tissue-organs heal in about 1-2 weeks?
Just trying to use 'deductive reasoning' to figure out if you're really accurate in your assessment of Charlie's abilities or not. I mean, if the tonics can set up the optimum nutritional/healing conditions, then maybe we should re-figure the validity of his tonics.
Good questions and good reasoning. The whole idea is to put the body into the optimum environment so it can get all the way up to "normal". You know - healthy.
The eye heals quick because its very light tissue and its blood supply is immediate. However, I injured my right eye back in 1972 and to this day it bothers me a bit and is still blurry. Left eye is perfect.
But you're right, the denser tissue takes longer to heal because of that density which translates to blood supply.
As far as speeding the healing process, I'm all for it. The problem we run into is the plumbing is congested, the environment is poisoned and the nutrition necessary to rebuild is getting difficult to come by. Eliminate the plumbing problem and put all the cells in their natural environment and it wouldn't take long at all to get healthy.
The poisoning stated with the vaccinations. Then there's the water supply with the chlorine and flouride. Then there's all the junk in the food and who do you know that watches his diet close or even has experimented enough with his diet so he knows what types of foods he runs best on? The chemcals, solvents and poisons are everywhere even in the girls make-up and mens cologne and deoderents. Plus, all the electro-magnetic interferences, even the jewelry can play havock with the electromagnetic and nerve supply of the human body which can lead to illhealth. So there's a lot to consider.
But for our purposes here we'll just consider the prolonged poisoning and the length of time required to eliminate that poisoning and thus return a body to normal health and whether one product can accomplish all that.
If you start cleaning your systems out at say 40 years old what can you expect? Most folks have had their full ration of vaccinations. Most folks have taken a variety of prescriiption and OTC drugs. Most folks have used the make-ups, deoderents, calogns and other chemical poisons. And most folks have been seriously poisoned at least once in their life.
Now throw on top of that their diets have been mostly high carbo diets. Full of white bread, potatoes and sugar. And you have to consider the antibiotics that most folks have taken at least once in their lives and more often many times in their lives.
And then you HAVE to consider the parasite infestation due to the solvents that are everywhere making the body suseptible to them. I know Charlie says they don't exist but I have yet to see a seriously ill person without them. And I have yet to see a seriously ill person recover their health without a good anti-parasite regime.
And then there's always the structural/nerological integrity to consider. How many people do you know that haven't hurt their neck or back at some point in their lives. Important because of the nerve supply that has to go through the spine to get to the tissues in the first place. The Central nervous system controls and coordiantes ALL bodily function plus, the structures are directly related and respond to the health of the organs and the poisoning thereof.
The question becomes: Can one product accomplish all that needs to be accomplished in the length of time Charlie says it's doable. In a young child, perhaps, but as one gets older and the poisons accumulate the length of time to heal gets to be a very big variable. And to expect to be healthy after a day or a week is indeed rediculis. Like in the original post I made it's physiologically very unlikely if not impossible. Too much has to be done after a lifetime of chemical poisoning, bad nutrition, and structural injuries.
The sooner we get the liver decongested, the sooner we get the parasites gone, the sooner we set up the "natural" environment inside the body the quicker that body will get healthy. But even under ideal circumstances it still takes more than a week and he's denying three very important necessities. Liver decongestion, anti-parasite regimes and nutritional intake. And again, there is simply not one product that can do all that. If Charlie or anyone else says there is, they're lying to you.
I see this in other areas too. Fasting is legitimate but there's other things to consider.
Anyway, keep on searching and asking the good questions. It'll all make sense to you eventually. There IS a way.
Now be careful! You're on the verge of becoming a convert! Here's why:
You said " the nutrition necessary to rebuild is getting difficult to come by. Eliminate the plumbing problem and put all the cells in their natural environment and it wouldn't take long at all to get healthy." Duh! That's what I'm talking about! My liver tonics are exactly the nutritional means by which we eliminate the plumbing problem. My tonics feed the liver. As a result, the sudden increase in bile production is what removes the plumbing problem. Voila! The body heals very quickly.
We're closer in agreement than you may realize. Don't hate me just because I'm pretty!
Thank you.
Liver Regeneration May Be Simpler Than Previously Thought
15 Apr 2007
The way the liver renews itself may be simpler than scientists had been assuming. A new study, appearing in The Journal of Biological Chemistry, provides new information on the inner workings of cells from regenerating livers that could significantly affect the way physicians make livers regrow in patients with liver diseases such as cirrhosis, hepatitis, or cancer.
"The human liver is one of the few organs in the body that can regenerate from as little as 25 percent of its tissue," says Seth Karp, assistant professor of surgery at Harvard Medical School, Boston, and main author of the study. "It is not known how the liver does it, but our results provide some details of what makes the liver so unique."
Although organ regeneration has been observed in many animals, the details of how it happens at the cellular level are still not completely understood. So far, scientists have shown that cells that participate in tissue regeneration behave as if they were part of a growing organ in an embryo. In other words, the cells act as if the liver is growing, as do other organs in a developing embryo.
Many of the proteins that induce organ regeneration have been identified and scientists are now trying to make organs regrow by stimulating these proteins. Regrowing livers this way would be especially useful for patients whose livers are so damaged - say, by a tumor that has spread to most of the liver - that a large part would be removed. Unless such patients receive the right amount of liver transplant from an organ donor, they do not always survive. Quickly stimulating the growth of the remaining portion of their liver could be their only chance of survival.
To investigate how the liver regenerates, Karp and his colleagues set out to determine which proteins are involved in the regenerating cells. The scientists were also interested in testing whether regenerating cells behave like embryonic ones, as is commonly assumed for other organs. New processes may explain why the liver is so uniquely capable of renewal and repair after injury, the scientists thought.
Karp's team considered two samples of mice. The first consisted of embryonic mice at various stages of development while the second was composed of adult mice to which two-thirds of their liver were removed. Using techniques such as DNA microarrays - which determine which genes are active in a cells - and software programs that analyze the collected information, the scientists listed all the proteins that help the cells grow and proliferate in both samples.
The results were unexpected. The researchers noticed that only a few proteins were common to both processes. Proteins called transcriiption factors, which affect DNA in the cell's nucleus, were highly involved in the development of embryos' livers but not in adult liver regeneration. Instead, proteins that help cells proliferate were active in both the developing and regenerating livers.
These findings showed that a regenerating liver does not behave as a developing embryo. Instead, regeneration could actually be only due to an increase in cells that multiply through regular cell divisions, a process called hyperplasia.
The new results may also have important medical implications. Transcriiption factors are known to be more difficult to manipulate than the other identified proteins. Since the transcriiption factors were not present in regenerating livers, it might be easier to stimulate liver regeneration by only activating the other identified proteins.
"These results are very encouraging," Karp says. "Not only did we discover that the number of proteins involved in liver regeneration is relatively low, but they don't include transcriiption factors, so we may be closer to being able to stimulate liver regeneration than we thought."
The next step will be for scientists to understand whether the regenerating cells are stem cells. Studies have shown that adult stem cells are involved in the repair of many organs, but in the case of the liver, the cells repairing it through regeneration may simply be regular cells, not stem cells.
"We think that the liver regrows through a relatively simple process, which could explain its prodigious ability to repair itself," Karp says.
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Article adapted by Medical News Today from original press release.
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Article: "Restoration of Liver Mass after Injury Requires Proliferative and Not Embryonic Transcriiptional Patterns" by Hasan H. Otu, Kamila Naxerova, Karen Ho, Handan Can, Nicole Nesbitt, Towia A. Libermann, and Seth J. Karp
The American Society for Biochemistry and Molecular Biology is a nonprofit scientific and educational organization with over 11,900 members in the United States and internationally. Most members teach and conduct research at colleges and universities. Others conduct research in various government laboratories, nonprofit research institutions and industry. The Society's student members attend undergraduate or graduate institutions.
Founded in 1906, the Society is based in Bethesda, Maryland, on the campus of the Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology. The Society's purpose is to advance the Science of biochemistry and molecular biology through publication of the Journal of Biological Chemistry, the Journal of Lipid Research, and Molecular and Cellular Proteomics, organization of scientific meetings, advocacy for funding of basic research and education, support of science education at all levels, and promoting the diversity of individuals entering the scientific work force.
For more information about ASBMB, see the Society's Web site at http://www.asbmb.org/
Contact: Pat Pages
American Society for Biochemistry and Molecular Biology
No doubt the liver can regenerate and quite quickly too. But overnight and in as little as a week - That's asking a bit. Under optimum circumstances the regeneration process does indeed take a short period of time. But how often are optimum circumstances available especially dealing with humans who can't follow instructions, who's diet is terrible and live in a poisoned environment.
Most of the problem relates back to the mass drugging of society. During the detox phase the poisons you recieved in the vaccinations you got as a kid will purge out of the cells they're stored in. If you're 30 years old when you do the cleansing regimes the poisons from the vaccinations won't show up for a good month or two or even three. Until those poisons are expelled do we have optimum circumstances? And the cells and surounding tissues that housed the poisons now have to rebuild. All the while with the poisons in the body each round of cell multiplication is not quite as healthy as the previous cells. Can't be, there's poison in their environment. And that's not taking into account the perfect diet people are on nowdays. The poisons are everywhere. How many people do you know that DON'T take prescriiption drugs??? Or at least OTC drugs?
The whole idea is to clean the mess up that people are drowning in, get rid of the poisons, get rid of the parasites, get the plumbing back on line. Then the body will regenerate. To purge poisons out of the intersticial spaces, or the lymph nodes, or fat cells, or even the muscle and nervous tissue is not an easy process to do and can get rather lengthy. Until that is done the body simply can't be "normal", can't be healthy. The environment is still poisoned. And it's been living and regenerating in those poisons for 20-30-40 years or more. Thus, each generation of cells has slowly been deteriorated.
To expect one product to expell 20 or more years of poisons in a week is rediculis. If those poisons were to release at that rate it would kill the individual. And even if the liver does regenerate quickly, which it does, it's still going to take months not weeks to detox the entire body.
And then there's the nutrition that is not addressed or the parasite issue that is not adressed, or even liver decongestion that is not considered either.
If Charlies products can do all that in a week then I strongly suggest you bow down before him and worship him because he truly is performing miracles and deserves to be worshiped. He is indeed God and his products are heaven sent.
"And then there's the nutrition that is not addressed or the parasite issue that is not adressed, or even liver decongestion that is not considered either."
This indicates that you haven't received his tonic or welcome kit. It does address diet in a very general manner. The problem I have with it is in the recommendation to eliminate wheat (gluten). But the diet stuff is only recommendation.
I know of nothing in his tonic that "flushes" or stresses the liver. The liver is encouraged to produce more bile (decongestion), which is very antiseptic; and the liver is provided more protection and nourishment. It is a building up process. The only warning may be that Gallstones can be dislodged in the process; but no great worry and not lasting. And if there is a healthier liver, the parasite issue will be addressed by the production of more bile. If the liver were healthy in the first place, there should be no worry about parasites. Besides if it is an issue, he has knowledge of herbs that could address it. But is philosophy is in building up; rather than destroying a pathogen. The body can do that. I better have accomplished that already with my use of MMS and iodine.
There are other tonics besides liver management. It is not just a liver tonic that is being paid for. A consultation will help determine what is needed.
He has a very good philosophy that I'm buying into.
A report just came in this morning from a person on Charlie's liver tonic and venous congestion tonic. Compared to all the various flushes he's done in the past, the liver tonic is alot milder and less drastic. He said that he had two 'frankenstein-type enlarged glands on the sides of his neck' for years, as far back as he can remember. He said the right one is positively gone, and the left one you have to press and search around to find it. He's been on the tonic for less than two weeks. This is a demonstration of the solvent quality of bile.
Thank you, jfh.
By the way, may I introduce myself? I'm Charlie in Arizona, The Herbalist
Glad you're still alive. I hope to try the venous tonic soon. I have had hemorrhoids for about 4 years due to straining at the toilet. I have little blue spider veins on my feet occasionally. I have cold hands and feet in the winter or air conditioning.
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