You can google this book and read parts of it. I would love to get some feedback about this supposedly personal account of someone being put in hell, temporarily, before death, and then pulled out again to bring a "warning" to those of us still alive.
I didn't realize my post and been popped from the plain ol forum to the debate forum, so I hve not responded to anyone's replies. (I thought it had been considered to be a nasty post for some reason and so it was deleted...but apparently the line between discussion and debate in this venue is miiiiighty thin! (Not a complaint, just an observation.)
I posted this as a question to try to get clear on whether there is such a thing as hell or not. My feeling is there is not, but then I am not a religious person. Most religions are very into hell, fear of hell, and the wrath of God. I have never had a near death experience, so I have no personal ground to stand on and must rely on the experiences of others, but his sort of hellish torture type thinking to me is very medieval.
Anyway, I assume this dude was having an out of body experience....not a physical one. So brain boiling would not be an issue.....
Well, I can only assume the spirit body can feel things....but not boil....I mean, there would be no actual damage....it only seems logical that if you are not in the physical world, you are not going to have physical damage....this would hold true whether you believe in hell or not. Otherwise, how could torment go on for ever and ever?
I really don't know, however, my estimation of such things, is that physical sensations are no longer primary. Most of what you experience is telepathic...sight, sound, emotions....things like hot and cold, pain and physical pleasure take more of a back seat... yet, if you believed you were in pain, you would feel it...something like that....
That is kind of a mystery, because we are supposed to get a glorified body at some point. So it is a body, like I have read you may eat if you like, though you don't need to. You may be touched. Like Jesus could not be touched before he ascended, but he could be after he came back in various appearances. But, if there is a hell, would those that were made to, or chose to be there (I still don't know that answer) have these same bodies? There is no pain in heaven, whether the ability to feel it is there, I doubt it.
I still find it very hard to believe God would decide to torture people who never figured out anything correctly, or even became mean/evil due to their circumstances and personalities. I am guessing that hell is just like minded people going to a plane of existence where they are with like minded people. It would be horribly hellish to people who were more highly developed. There are probably several levels of this lower existence. So, that some are not nearly as hellish as others.
I would also, think that if they were there for eternity that they were in such a low level of thinking that they just don't want to evovlve. I think those who would choose to learn and grow could "move up" so to speak. Maybe some of this is wishful thinking on my part.
I couldn't find specific answers. So, I do have God in me I know. So, I have decided to trust that he is Love, and whatever he has waiting for us is quite fair and unbelievably different and more wonderful than we could ever conceive.
Maybe we will all be saved. God said that is his wish. Certainly, if anyone deserved to have all of their wishes and dreams come true it is God. (:
This doesn't address feeling pain in the spirit but it talks about when we get our glorified bodies.
Do Christians receive glorified bodies immediately after they die?
Second Corinthians 5:6-8 makes it clear that the believer is ushered directly into the presence of God upon death. Paul argues that "to be absent from the body" is tantamount to being "present with the Lord." Jesus sounded a similar theme when He told the thief on the cross "today you will be with Me in Paradise" (Luke 23:43). The paradise Jesus referred to is synonymous with heaven.
However, Scripture also teaches that the believer, while in the presence of the Lord, will not receive his glorified body until a later time. Upon death, our bodies go into the grave and await the second coming of Christ (1 Thess. 4:16), when He will raise and transform them (1 John 3:2).
The apostle Paul speaks of the time when our spirits will be again united with our bodies so that we will no longer be naked (2 Cor. 5:3) but able to live throughout eternity in the form God created us to enjoy. The new body of the Christian is yet future, though each deceased saint is now in the presence of the Lord.
When we die, our bodies remain and decay and then ultimately dissolve in the Earth (which will one day be no more).
Our "spirits" (anger, greed, addictions, etc.) burn away in the Light of God=Love (or they sometimes remain behind as what the living perceive as "ghosts).
Our SOULS go straight to Heaven...unless we are tricked once more to come back to "Hell" (otherwise known as "Earth")
I do remember my receptionist saying that is why we traditionally bury bodies so that when the Lord returns they will rise up to face him. The there was this discussion about cremation, accidents, etc. and everyone figured God can gather the parts of us that are scattered and it doesn't matter if we are cremated. Some people don't believe in it though, and I respect that. I just don't like the idea of slowly ah, degrading. Anyway, there is apparently, a part of us in our bodies that God wants to reuse or save to make our glorified bodies. Even though I am sure it sounds silly to some, we don't have all knowledge and there may be somethng vitally important in keeping something DNAish from our dead bodies or something. I don't know.
Anyway, your right, our bodies do rise up to meet the Lord at his 2nd coming and at that time, I guess is when everyone gets their glotified bodies which had been in spirit form prior to that. I wasn't sure if maybe those in heaven stayed spirit, and it was those on the new earth that had glorified bodies. But, I am wondering if those in Heaven have different bodies than those that will reinhabit the new earth.
I will have to study and see where the name Yah comes from. I know as a christian we believe there is only one God, and this one God is in three persons.
God the Father
God the Son (Jesus Christ)
God the Holy Spirit
The persons are distinct yet they are one.
The Father is God and is the first person of the trinity.
The Son is God and the secound person of the trinity.
The Holy Spirit is God and is the third person of the trinity.
There is indeed only one God in the reality of Heaven...but filtered through the illusion of Earth..."God" is translated as many aspects...Higher...Lower...Female...Male...androgynus
As such, there are two "voices" of "God" in the Bible...
Yah which is God=Love
and
The Librarian which is merely God.
The Librarian is the "Jealous God"
For if Highest Aspect of God = Love, and Love is never jealous then there can be no true "Jealous God"
Thus the "Jealous" god is not the "real" God of Heaven.
Orb, I believe the only place I have ever heard this term "Librarian" as a synonym for a seonc lesser God. Or, for that matter that there IS a second lesser God is from Rudy. Those are his terms from a personal revelation HE had that he is still working through,
They are not terms that have meaning or truth to anyone else, unless you are saying you have had the same experience as Rudy, I think to state these things as fact for everyone is at the very least misguided.
To tell me unequivocally there is not a hell, even one that is of our own making is not something you are qualified to do unless you are God. None of us knows exactly what awaits us. Many of us do have experiences that give us a good indication of what lies ahead. But, only if they have been put in the position of Teacher will they be able to draw students that will listen. You must not just make statements like this is true, that is not true based on nothing that anyone can relate to. If you draw these cnclusions from your own logic and what you have studied, then you may consider saying. "I think" that it is this way. Otherwise, your words ring empty. I have no particular reason to put faith in anything you say. That is not to be unfriendly, it is just the order of things.
Indeed. Rudy's Librarian is my Librarian and our Librarian.
I have studied NDEs for over twenty five years...from all religions and spiritual beliefs. I had many questions about my experience of this life and it was only in reading and studying Rudy's experience that I came to understand the truth of our reality on Earth.
You may debate this all you want, my dear Marjorie, but the truth is the truth.
The Librarian is the God of this world - and we have been duped by Him.
It is our job now to bring Light to this world and even to the Librarian.
Though, it matters little in the end scheme of things.
For God=Love or "Yah" as Rudy calls Her/Him, cannot see anything that happens on Earth unless it happens with Love.
Unless you care to share your real personal name with me, I ask that you please not use mine, especially in such a condescending manner. And I respectfully disagree with everything you say. You say it with no authority, only an idolship of Rudy. Have your own vision at least.
I worship no one or no thing - except Love...and I mean no condescension. But the truth is the truth. You cannot measure your knowledge with mine - as I have studied and read hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of books of spirituality...and diverse religions.
And it all comes down (or up) to LOVE.
Wherever there is not Love, there is no God of Love.
Pouring molten gold down the mouths of women and children have nothing to do with Love...killing babies - as was so "instructed by a "god" - throughout the Bible - has nothing to do with Love.
One nation turning against the other nation in a war of blood - has nothing to do with "god".
Sorry - no God of Love would want any of his children to fight or kill the other.
So, since such wars are littered throughout the Bible - it was not the God of Love that guided those wars.
It was the Librarian.
Not an evel sort, per se, ...just not a very nice person (entity) who enjoys tortuing us.
He fell from Heaven, created Earth and then set himself up as the God of this world, one who oversees the rest of us poor folk - who keep falling from Heaven into bodies that burn until we realize that there's no better experience than the love of Heaven, which is where we all came from in the first place.
So, in the meantime, we keep performing on this Earth - until we "get it right."
In short, Shakespeare was correct:
"All the world is a stage, and we are but actors."
Unfortunately, it's for the Librarian's entertainment - and not any "development" of our souls.
Our souls are already perfect.
We just forgot that.
And once we remember it, we can to stay (return to) in Heaven.
So in your beliefs if there is only one God and a christian called the Librarian satan, wouldn't that be the same thing as blaspheming God to you?
The following scripture is why christians would view the Librarian as satan.
Matt 12: 22Then they brought him a demon-possessed man who was blind and mute, and Jesus healed him, so that he could both talk and see. 23All the people were astonished and said, "Could this be the Son of David?" 24But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, "It is only by Beelzebub, the prince of demons, that this fellow drives out demons."
25Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, "Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand. 26If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand? 27And if I drive out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your people drive them out? So then, they will be your judges. 28But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
29"Or again, how can anyone enter a strong man's house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man? Then he can rob his house.
30"He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters. 31And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
I guess I'm trying to figure out why jealousy would always be considered a negative trait. If God is jealous of people worshiping other forms of god and since He knows He's the only True God, isn't Jealously in this case a rightous thing? Much like if a husband cheated on his wife and she because jealous, wouldn't that be a rightous jealousy because of the authority in their marriage which is even above the law because it is based on love?
Unfortunately - though Rudy has not confirmed this one way or the other...yes - I do believe that the Librarian is who we have come to know as "Satan"....
"The Father of Lies"
But this is not blasphemy as I am not blaspheming God=Love. I am "insulting", for lack of a better of term, an entity who THINKS he's a "god" - and who has lead us to believe that he is THEE "God" - which he is not.
This is an explanation of hellfire by Islam. Thought this might help. Hellfire is Jahannum.
What is JAHANNUM : A BRIEF DESCRIPTION
1. Jahannum is so deep that if a stone were to be thrown into, it would travel for 70 years to reaching at the bottom.
2. The breadth of each of the four walls around jahannum is equivalent to a distance covered by a walking journey of 40 years.
3 . Jahannum has 7 gates.
4. Jahannum had been lit for one thousand years until its flames became red. Again it was heated for another thousand years till its colour became white. Still again it was burnt for further thousand years and its white color flames turned pitch black.
5. Even the most fierce fire of this world is 70 fold cooler than the fire of Jahannum.
6. The lightest punishment in Jahannum would be the wearing of ” Fiery shoes” which would cause one’s brain to boil.
7. Jahannum in infested with venomous donkeys and if they were to bite a person then he or she will suffer pain for 40 years.
8. For food, the dweller of Jahannum would be given Zaqqum which is a prickly tree, so bitter, that even if a single molecule of it were to spill onto this earth it would make all the foodstuff of the world bitter and unpalatable.
9. For drinking, the denizen of Jahannum would be provided with hot, boiling pus mixed with blood, matter, urine and tears etc. of the dwellers of Jahannum. If a bucket of this foul liquid were to be splashed over this earth, the entire world would be upset and disrupted by its most foul stink.
10. Boiling water would be poured over Jahannami’s head and this will cause their internal organs to melt and leak out through their feet.
11.The inmates of Jahannum would be lashed with heavy clubs of iron. If one such club was to be placed upon this earth, the combined strength of all the human beings, as well as all the Jinns, would fail to lift it; and if a mountain is struck with one of these clubs it would cause the whole mountain to disintegrate.
12. The dwellers of Jahannum would be burnt daily for 70 thousand times. Every time, after the skin and flesh is burnt, they would be restored to life so that they can continuously taste this punishment.
13. A drunkard will be given blood, pus, sweat, filth, etc. to drink in Jahannum.
14. All the haughty people will be gathered in the Hereafter and driven towards Jahannum but their bodies would be reduced to the size of ants and they will be given to consume the excretions of the dwellers of Jahannum.
15. Some sinners would be made to climb ” SAUD ” which is a mountain of fire in Jahannum, and then dropped from its peak and this process would continue forever and ever.
16. The dwellers of Jahannum would be pound in chains which would be greater in length than the distance between the sky and the earth.
17. The clothes of sinners in Jahannum would be highly inflammable.
18. Beside physical torture, the dwellers of Jahannum would also be subjected to mental harassment through the taunting by the guardian of Jahannum who will remind them of their misdeed on earth and remarks “Now taste the fire” etc.
19. The sinners and disbelievers would be humiliated to such an extent that besides their revolting ugliness and pitch black faces, their upper lips would be touching their foreheads and the lower lip dangling around the navel.
20. The dwellers of Jahannum would weep so much and shed so much of tears and blood that furrows would be formed on their cheeks.
21. The tongues of ####-inmates would be so long and protruding from there mouths that others would trample and step on them.
22. Shayateen will also rebuke the denizens of Jahannum.
23. The dwellers of Jahannum would display their rage and fury on those who led them astray.
24. The inhabitants of Jahannum would appeal to the guardians of Jahannam to intercede on their behalf in the court of Allah but their pleas would reject. They would make direct supplication to Allah but their prayers would not be granted.
25. They will then abide forever in Jahannum , continuously lamenting and braying like asses (jungle animals).
O ALLAH ! SAVE US, OUR PARENTS AND FAMILY MEMBERS AND FRIENDS AND RELATIVES AS WELL AS THE READERS AND THEIR FAMILIES AND DECEASED RELATIVES FROM THE PUNISHMENT OF JAHANNAM, AND GRANT US ALLTHE HIGH STATIONS OF JANNAH WITHOUT RECKONING. AMEEN !
Easy Entrance: “Paradise is surrounded by difficulties and Fire is surrounded by temptations” .
Eternal: “[B]O Jannatis, now there will be no death; O Jahannamis now there will be no death; On hearing this call , the Jannatis will be delighted and the Jahanamis will become more depressed.”
Depth: “[B]If a rock is dropped into Jahannam, it will remain plummeting for 70 years before touching the pith of Jahannam”. [Muslim]
4 Walls: “Four walls surround Jahannam. The width of each wall is a walking distance of 40 years”.
7 Gates: “Jahannam has seven gates; one of them is for the one who unsheathes a sword against my Ummah.” [Mishkat]
Atmosphere: “Jahannam was heated for a thousand years and its fire turned red; It was then heated for another thousand years and it became white; it was again heated for another thousand years and it turned black. At present, Jahannam is pitch black and dark.” [Tirmidhi] “The fire in which one will burn is the 70th part of the Fire of Jahannam.” [Muslim]
Breath: “Once Jahannam complained to Allah Ta’ala against the increasing heat because one portion was eating into another. Then the Rabb of the Worlds allowed it to have two breaths — one during summer and another during winter. Therefore the heat you feel is the effect of the heave of Jahannam (with it the breath is taken out) and similarly, the rigid cold you experience is the effect of the breath (taken in).
7 Layers: Ali ibn Abi Talib (ra) has said that the gates of Jahannam are one upon each other. This denotes that Jahannam has layers. “[B]The Hypocrites will be in the lowest depths of the Fire.” [Qur’an 4:145].
Fuel: “Verily you, (Unbelievers) and the (false) gods that you worship besides Allah, are (but) fuel for Jahannam! To it will you (surely) come!” [Qur’an 21: 98] “O Muslims! Save yourselves and your families from the Fire whose fuel is men and stones.” [Qur’an 66: 6]
Ibn Mas’ud (ra) explained; “Stones, which are the fuel of Jahannam, are made of sulphur (brimstone) which Allah Ta’ala created in the nearest heaven on the day heaven and earth were created.” [Hakim]
I think on the Infinite, All Merciful,Unchanging, Forgiving One Love, the one some call Yah-Love. I ask to be filled to overflowing with as much of this Love as I can sustain and give and give and give it abundantly. I cannot fathom what changes might over a me if I would live in fear of a hell; if I am motivated by fear, and in living a life driven by fear, could I not become fear itself?// Perhaps as our bodies are what we eat(some say) our beings are what we think about.// Yet as I tremble for those who live daily in fear(of a hell), what of those of us who live daily in a more subtle fear, and also become fear itself? --- Fears that advertisers prey upon to make money... "see your doctor and ask for this or that pill"(playing upon the fear of death); the fear of losing a job or a financial portfolio, of big government or not enough government, of war, of terrorism, of being alone, of obesity, cancer, hypertension, heart attacks, rejection.// The spiritual source of fear and fearfulness cannot be Love, the Always Enduring and Forgiving.// What if all the lurid teachings of a physical Hell that have become part of religions came not from Love, the One and Only, the Merciful? But from an intermediate being, some master controller type...? Today I will try to love and fear not. Love conquers fear, leaves no "space" for fear... Orb of Light would say, I think, that in simply seeking Light, fear is melted away as the morning sun lifts the pre-dawn fog.
Indeed, dear friend, indeed. And thank you for "seeing" what I have oh so gently and subtly have been trying to say. Love (Yah) sees us when we let our Light shine. Our Light shines only when our thoughts are illuminated. Illumination is born in the Light. It is an exescapable and beautiful parodox. And yet simply stated, there is one indelible "law" of the Universe (the You-and-I-in-verse), based on Yah's greatest gift to us: Free Will. Such that, whatever we concentrate on, expands...concentrate on the darkness (negative) and things get worse; concentrate on the Light (positive) and things get better...or better yet...REMAIN THE BEST...LOVE loves you.
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