There is a simple solution to this. Has anyone received an ultrasound, showing they had gallstones? Then proceeded to "flush" them; gone back and received another ultrasound that showed they were gone?
I had an ultrasound that said I had them! But felt no need whatsoever to go back to the butcher shop to have them tell me something I already new! Why throw good money away ?
Ok I think I can be a help here. I have recently been having gallbladder attacks and have just had an ultrasound that shows my gallbladder is full of stones. I have now been referred to a specialist to go on the waiting list to have my gallbladder removed. I have decided to try this liver/gallbladder flush as I have nothing to lose and hopefully a chance at saving my gallbladder. I intend to do my first flush next Friday night 12th February 2010. If I feel I have some success with this I will order another ultrasound so I can have some proof and will keep posting to keep everyone up to date.
I would like to put my experience with the Oil Liver/Gallstone Flush.
I went to see my doctor because of a nagging pain in my abdomen just under the rib cage and was diagnose with a gall bladder full of Gallstones and confirmed by an ultrasound.The doctor sent me to a specialist but by the time I saw him,(6 weeks later) the pain had disappeared. However, the specialist saw the Ultrasound and the report and said although I have a GB full of stones, he said he would not recommend surgery just yet unless I wanted it. As it is not giving me any pain, which he said is because a stone must have lodged in my bile duct for a while and then got dislodged, which is a common occurence with gallstones.He also said that I could be pain free for a whole year, but eventually a stone will lodge again and the pain would come back.
In the meantime, I had been researching to find an alternative method of removing the gallstones without surgery.i came across the oil flush which everyone is doing.So I did 6 flushes over a period of 4 months following the recipe which everyone seems to be following. I also pass out a lot of the green chick pea size "gall stones" .There were so much of the stuff, that I became skeptical that they could'nt possibly all come from my GB or liver. My GB is'nt that large ! The ultrasound also included my liver and nothing unusual came up with my liver, so unlikely any stones there. My doctor was aware of what I was doing and she suggested that I take another Ultra sound after my 6th Flush to see if anything has happened to my GB and the stones. She also suggested I have some of the "Gallstones" I passed analysed.My doctor was very helpful and supported me, although she was skeptical. So after passing all that amount of green "gallstones ", I was really looking forward to seeing the difference in my GB. I had another ultrasound done and had the "Gall stones" analysed. The RESULT was NO CHANGE to my GB and still full of gallstones. Absolutely NOTHING has changed. I was really disappointed and dejected! The Pathological analysis of the stones came back NEGATIVE....they were not gallstones at all. They claim it is just fesces .
Even if my GB changed by 10% I would have been happy...but NOTHING !!!
So for me, back to the drawing board. Still searching and found GallCleanse but cannot find independent opinions from users except for testimonials on the site selling the stuff.
Anyone out there who have used GallCleanse???
A lot of people like you out there these days! I have been here at Curezone for over five years and remember all the positive testimony from real people who you could see and watch go through the different protocols,now all we get is people with no posting history making negative claims! Things have changed at Curezone you can't trust anyone since this new group who are running things now who all appeared about the same time !
Different Oils, different juices and even a lack of Epsom Salts still can produce the same exact looking "stones"
Exactly. Different oils also contain sterols that complex with cholesterol from foods and bile in the intestines to form the "stones". The citric acid has little to do with it. And the magnesium sulfate is irrelevant since these "stones" are not coming from the gallbladder so there is no need to dilate the bile ducts.
You can pass those green 'stones' with just liters of apple J, golden coin grass, bitters and phosphoric acid every day. Exact same look, feel and especially smell. No oil needed. Going through it right now it's quite amazing. But you already know all that.
The truth lies some where in the between lines. The Liver Flush does indeed remove stuff out of the hepatic region. The question is how much? I personally don't think much.
Thanks for this insight.
Would you please elaborate on this?
Do you have any pictures of large (>5mm) greenish stones produced with a clear or white oil.. such as sunflower or coconut oil? I'd be very interested to see these.
Thanks,
Jonathan
Funny enough I got the green stones with out olive oil. I drank a cup of Epsom Salts and within a few hours I was passing these little green floaters. I hadn't had olive oil in weeks and they smelled terrible.
Not quite true. Most gallstones are choelsterol based, but there are also pigment stones.
,hard stones are older and calcified.
Younger stones also calcify, and it is the calcium that makes real stones sink. The "stones" people are passing float because they ARE NOT real gallstones and instead are produced from sterols in the olive oil reacting with cholesterol. This is very basic science!
The myth that they are from the olive oil is preposterous and you'll find that conventional medicine will do anything to make big bucks for all the testing and over 14 grand for the operation.
I am not conventional medicine, and I have posted various easy and inexpensive ways to get rid of or prevent real stones from forming.
At least that's what I was quoted before I flushed my stones away.
The MDs are quite transparent on this issue, they will tell you that you have gallstones and advice having you to have your gallbladder removed ,but if you flush them out and bring them the stones they will tell you they are not gallstones! lol! Watch your wallet folks!
It will cost you even more if you lodge a real stone in the bile ducts. First there will be a trip to the emergency room. Then to the OR for gallbladder removal to save your life. Then you will have a greatly increased risk of intestinal cancer..........
It will cost you even more if you lodge a real stone in the bile ducts. First there will be a trip to the emergency room. Then to the OR for gallbladder removal to save your life. Then you will have a greatly increased risk of intestinal cancer....
So this, above, is what you wrote
BUT, in a message previously posted you wrote
And the magnesium sulfate is irrelevant since these "stones" are not coming from the gallbladder so there is no need to dilate the bile ducts.
No need for anyone to debate you, you seem to be doing a good job doing it yourself.
It will cost you even more if you lodge a real stone in the bile ducts. First there will be a trip to the emergency room. Then to the OR for gallbladder removal to save your life. Then you will have a greatly increased risk of intestinal cancer....
So this, above, is what you wrote
BUT, in a message previously posted you wrote
And the magnesium sulfate is irrelevant since these "stones" are not coming from the gallbladder so there is no need to dilate the bile ducts.
No need for anyone to debate you, you seem to be doing a good job doing it yourself.
ROTFLMAO!!! What did I say that is contradictory? I mention REAL STONES in my first comment, and the so -called "stones" in my second comment. No contradiction at all. The point was that IF there are real stones present the olive oil can contract the gallbladder allowing a REAL STONE to lodge in the bile ducts. These bile ducts can only dilate a few millimeters, which is much smaller than the so-called "stones" that people are posting photos of. In other words it is IMPOSSIBLE to pass stones that big even if you overdosed on magnesium sulfate!!! Try learning something about human anatomy and physiology.
"The "stones" people are passing float because they ARE NOT real gallstones and instead are produced from sterols in the olive oil reacting with cholesterol. This is very basic science!"
I find this idea interesting and plausible. I wonder, however, what your view is on those people (in this thread for instance) who claim they have passed these stones without ingesting any oil what so ever (as part of their flush, and sometimes within weeks of doing the cleanse)?
Being a doctor of both alternatives and modern medicine, I'd like to point out a few things to you.
Through my many studies at Baylor and studies abroad concerning natural substances to fight disease, I must say that flushing and cleansing can actually cause stone formation. These "stones" are merely made up of the same ingredients you use to perform the proceedure.
True Gallstones are calcified- very hard and one cannot possibly "slice" these stones with the finest knives without them crumbling.
Studies have been done for 100's of years concerning gallstones. A few small actual ones will not cause any pain, will not cause illness, but diets high in fatty foods can cause more to form thus, leading to gallbladder removal. (most patients opt not to take medication for stones).
I am questioning you though...(not arguing)
Why would one do a 'flush' if you have never had a gallbladder attack? Do you realize you could of caused the actual "post flush" gallbladder attack?
Stones are stones- small ones made up of what you ingested (or calcified stones from diet) can be forced through the bile duct, however, stones slightly above pea-sized (regardless of how they formed) usually send the person to the hospital and end up having surgery to remove the gallbladder eventually.
Furthermore, diet yes can play a signifigant role in stone formation, but since they are formed beginning in the billiary tract which reside in the liver, this could be a sign something else other than diet (NASH)-is playing a role, ie, exsessive iron storage, HBV, HCV and both benign and cancerous tumors.
Why fix something if it isn't broke? Remember: first do no harm.
Flushes and cleanses will make one feel better too- because it isn't the most fun going through all of that without any food. :O) You deplete your storage of energy during a flush/cleanse, of course you will feel better after the fact.
If the "stones" (aka: fatty balls) are made up of the flush ingredients you have swallowed, then how do you explain having a bunch of these "stones" flush out into the toilet bowl just from using Epsom Salts and nothing else? I have had the experience more than once. Without swallowing the oil, how would the fatty stones be formed?
John Tilden MD says: "When the catarrh of the liver is overcome, secretions become normal and stones disintegrate and pass out through the gall-ducts into the bowels, and then out of the body. No treatment, no surgery, is necessary." "A correct treatment," he says, "will be directed to removing the cause or causes of toxemia."
Removing the stones does not restore normal liver function, hence more stones will form after their removal. Draining the gall-bladder does not improve the body's nutrition. Removing the gall-bladder does not correct the catarrhal inflammation that caused the stone formation.
There can be but one cure for gall-stones. This is: restore the normal functioning of the liver so that normal bile will be secreted; then the normal bile will cause the stones to disintegrate and pass out. Correction of the inflammation makes gall-bladder drainage or extirpation unnecessary. Correction of gastro-intestinal catarrh renders surgical exploitation of the whole digestive canal unnecessary. The undesirable finish pictured under etiology may be avoided by correct living. Although physicians and surgeons are so unfamiliar with cause that they believe surgery alone can help and usually recommend this, the great army of post-operative invalids one sees everywhere attests that no real cure comes from this spectacular treatment. Operations leave cause at work, hence more pathology develops.
George Weger MD says: Given proper assistance the chemistry of the body can be so altered that stones soften, disintegrate, and pass out with but slight discomfort. We have treated many cases and. seldom have we found it necessary to resort to surgery. It is a remarkable fact that softening occurs very rapidly on a complete fast. Frequently patients coming for treatment for different ailments develop hepatic colic from the eighth to the tenth day of fasting. In these the presence of gall stones may never have been suspected. The same is true of stones in the kidney. In recurrent attacks there is no treatment in the intervals to equal a diet restricted to fresh fruits, salads and cooked non-starchy vegetables. It can be safely predicted that there will be no recurrences in those patients who follow instructions as to diet and exercise. In most instances if the gall stone is not larger than a small olive it will become soft and pass out without resort to surgery and its consequent risks. The exceptions are in those run-down people who have no reserve vitality or courage left to sustain them for a reasonable time while nature is establishing a normal chemical balance. Extreme caution and conservatism on the part of the physician is necessary in determining the proper course in a given case. The process of recovery may seem slow but it is in reality marvelously rapid, compared with the long time it takes for the stones to form. * * * Without recourse to olive oil, bile salts, and the one hundred and one remedies that are generally prescribed, our percentage of non-surgical recoveries is so high as to warrant a favorable prognosis if the patient cooperates in the removal of the first cause."
I've had several episodes which what may or may not have been a gallbladder attack. They weren't severe, just caused some pain and a few hours of lost sleep. I had an ultrasound where they discovered one gallstone 1.1cm along with sludge. There was no inflammation of the gallbladder. I wanted to do the flush but was a bit nervous about it becoming lodged in a duct so instead I completely cleaned up my diet and along with digestive enzymes I was taking(which enabled me to stop taking proton-pump inhibitors after 7 years of them) my chiropractor/naturalist added some herbal supplements to help break up the stone.
A year later I had another sonogram and no more evidence of the stone but the sludge remained. It was then that I felt ready to do the flush. I followed the instructions according to Hulda Clark with the exception of the second dose of Epsom Salts the morning after the olive oil/grapefruit concoction. I had no problems with the flush.. no pain, got the olive oil/grapefruit down fine, slept like a rock.) First morning dose of Epsom salts had me "flowing" again. I saw some evidence of the oil but I also saw some evidence of what I THINK was the sludge. I skipped the second morning dose of Epsom Salts because I felt properly cleaned out. Drank some tea with milk and sugar (my favorite) then began drinking juice, eating fruit and later ate normally. I felt great!
The morning after and for the next couple of days I heard a lot of squirting and rumbling going on. I used a warm heating pad and very light massage on the area of my gallbladder and could feel it continuing to squirt. It's been almost a week and I feel amazing. I didnt' realize it but there must have been a heaviness to my congested gallbladder because now I feel a lightness that I didn't have before. Also, the tenderness in the area under my right rib is gone.
I guess it remains to be seen what happens now and I almost wish I could go back for another sonogram right away to see if the sludge is in fact gone. I think it is!
Whether the flush did get rid of my sludge, I think it did somehow improve my gallbladder health. I'm sure the good colon cleansing induced by the Epsom Salts didn't hurt either but I'm sure that the gallbladder tenderness was helped by the flush. I will continue taking the supplements (Milk Thistle, Ginger, Cinnamon, etc.) to hopefully continue to thin the bile and to hopefully continue to feel as good as I do now.
Good luck to anyone considering the flush but I would suggest you do it safely. I didn't and wouldn't try the flush if I knew I had really large stones (I'd be too afraid of winding up in the ER to get the surgery that I was trying to avoid).
hi,
i am currently getting frequent very painfull gallbladder attacks.I have a large gallstone measuring 2.6cm, I was seriously considering trying a flush for the first time until i read your post. Can u please explain ur diet changes, ur supplements u take etc, how long it took to dissolve and any other info that might be usefull..
thank you so much..
Thanks for sharing as you have.
What prevented you from getting another sonogram? If I as in your shoes, the scientist in me would be ultra eager to get an ultra sound / sonogram to confirm the results.
Was it a cost issue?
there are some people here who speak the truth and others who have questionable motives.
if you read the whole thread you find that 75% of people in the survey found value from doing the flushes.
chrisb really makes an excellent point, and goes to the heart of the issue, which is really what everyone wants -- to normalize their liver function.
but the debate is whether the stones are coming from the liver or are formed from a complex of oil and intestinal juices.
what is most interesting is that this hveragerti person has said that it is basic science... and yet no one has never given the exact formula for this basic science. no one has ever been able to produce one of these stones in a lab. why is that? why don't greek people pass soapstones after every greek salad they eat? lol
the answer is that it is not basic Science at all, if it was they could easily make a stone in the lab.
another semantic misdirection the hver person uses is to say that all stones sink. yes, calcium stones will sink, but what most people understand is that the stones passed in liver flushing are really congealed bile, or old stagnant formations of bile. whether or not they are true stones as defined by section 54.a2.30132023 of the AMA code is pretty much a non-issue. what is an issue is if these masses are blocking bile flow and preventing people from achieving maximum health.
lawyers and politicians love to use semantic misdirection to lull their constituents into submissive trances. i am very glad that some people here stood up for the truth and did not let this person get away with it.
the other argument this person used was to say that a large stone or mass can't pass through the small diameter duct. this is a worthwhile point. a more correct statement would be: 'under normal circumstances a large stone cannot pass through the small diameter of the common bile duct'
that is PRECISELY the logic and reasoning behind the liver flush. we are creating an unusual situation for the biliary system. namely 1) an extreme dilation of the smoothe muscle tissue of the hepatic system and common bile duct and 2) a massive stimulus in the form of a large quantity of oil
under these unusual (and perhaps genius) circumstances, we can observe the obvious, that large stones are able to pass through the common bile duct, at least under this short duration and strong stimulus of the oil.
many people have posted that the stones were analyzed and indeed were composed of bile acids and cholesterol.
no one to date has ever been able to make a stone in a lab. it should be child's play to round up some digestive enzymes, oil, epsom salt, and make some gallstones. but this will never happen because they are coming from the liver or the gall bladder. no one has ever given the formula for these so called saponified stones. yes soap can be made with LYE and oil, but no one is ingesting LYE, and if they did, they would die shortly thereafter.
some people have reported expelling stones after just taking epsom salt. some people have expelled stones after drinking apple juice. some people have expelled stones from just taking malic acid. in all of these cases no oil had been consumed.
let us not be suc***ed into the false baiting of semantic misdirection and let us not be suc***ed into not using our basic powers of logic.
i am not making a case for actually going ahead and doing the flushes or saying that this is the best way to clean the liver of stones and debris. that is a personal decision and has to be done on a case by case analysis with careful consideration.
if you read the whole thread you find that 75% of people in the survey found value from doing the flushes.
What value? That is pretty vague? What they relieved their constipation from the excess bile released? They relieved their anxiety because some saponified "stones" came out that they thought were real gallstones? What?
chrisb really makes an excellent point, and goes to the heart of the issue, which is really what everyone wants -- to normalize their liver function.
Gallstones are in the gallbladder, not the liver. And drinking olive oil is not going to cleanse the liver. Bitters will though.
but the debate is whether the stones are coming from the liver or are formed from a complex of oil and intestinal juices.
what is most interesting is that this hveragerti person has said that it is basic science... and yet no one has never given the exact formula for this basic science. no one has ever been able to produce one of these stones in a lab. why is that?
Who said they have not. This is something demonstrated in organic chemistry classes. You need to stop reading all the flush hype sites!!!!
why don't greek people pass soapstones after every greek salad they eat? lol
Come on, are you kidding or just not using some common sense?!!!!!! When you do the so-called flushes you consume much larger levels of oil providing more material to produce these "stones" in the intestines. It does not take a rocket scientist to understand such a simple fact!!!
the answer is that it is not basic Science at all, if it was they could easily make a stone in the lab.
As I said this is demonstrated in organic chemistry classes. Try taking one so you professor can show you how it is done. By the way these "stones" are not all from saponification. Some are cholesterol-sterol complexes, another WELL-KNOWN chemistry reaction.
another semantic misdirection the hver person uses is to say that all stones sink. yes, calcium stones will sink, but what most people understand is that the stones passed in liver flushing are really congealed bile, or old stagnant formations of bile.
So in other words not gallstones. Thankyou for verifying this fact for everyone. Real gallstones are calcified, precipitated cholesterol.
whether or not they are true stones as defined by section 54.a2.30132023 of the AMA code is pretty much a non-issue. what is an issue is if these masses are blocking bile flow and preventing people from achieving maximum health.
How can these psuedostones block the bile ducts when they are being formed in the intestines?!!! Please explain this concept to us.
the other argument this person used was to say that a large stone or mass can't pass through the small diameter duct. this is a worthwhile point. a more correct statement would be: 'under normal circumstances a large stone cannot pass through the small diameter of the common bile duct'
that is PRECISELY the logic and reasoning behind the liver flush. we are creating an unusual situation for the biliary system. namely 1) an extreme dilation of the smoothe muscle tissue of the hepatic system and common bile duct and 2) a massive stimulus in the form of a large quantity of oil
First of all the MAXIMUM the bile ducts can expand is only a few millimeters even if you took a truckload of magnesium. Some of the so-called "stones" people have shown photos of are in excess of 25mm. In other words even with a miracle directly from God there is no way on Earth those "stones" could have passed through the bile ducts. Furthermore if you look at the volume of these so-called "stones" that some people are claiming to have passed, the volume is way larger than the gallbladder itself. So unless they are an alien from another planet again they did not come from the gallbladder. But people still delude themselves in to thinking these are real stones despite all the impossibilities.
under these unusual (and perhaps genius) circumstances, we can observe the obvious, that large stones are able to pass through the common bile duct, at least under this short duration and strong stimulus of the oil.
IF there were REAL stones in the gallbladder this size the strong contraction from the oil would cause the stone to lodge in the bile ducts leading to problems such as pancreatitis and would require emergency surgery.
many people have posted that the stones were analyzed and indeed were composed of bile acids and cholesterol.
ROTFLMAO!!!!!! These pseudostones are formed in part from the sterols of the olive oil binding with the cholesterol in the bile trapping some bile salts in the process. And the fact that they did not find calcium salts, which are a component of gallstones you have just PROVEN that these were not real gallstones. Keep up the good work
Also read some of the other reports where people have had these so-called "stones" analyzed. The labs confirmed they were not real gallstones. But these reports always seem to get hidden on the gallbladder forum. I wonder why? Aren't these people interested in the real truth? Or do they like being fooled? I suppose they also still believe the tooth fairy is real!!!!
no one to date has ever been able to make a stone in a lab.
That is the third time you have repeated this myth. Again take an organic chemistry class and your professor can show you how it is done. Here, try reading this:
"The preparation of fat for absorption is carried on entirely in the intestines; first by a process of saponification (soap formation) and emulsification, then by a splitting up into more simple parts (See page 68)."
"Vegetable oils are probably the most efficient and safe of the direct irritant purgatives. As a group, they act by combining in a saponification process with alkaline bile salts in the small intestine. This process produces monobasic, dibasic, and tribasic soaps that exert irritant effects.
Also keep in mind that these "stones" being formed in the intestines are not all saponified oil. Olive oil is rich in sterols, which have a high affinity for cholesterol. When the olive oil sterols come in to contact with the cholesterol in the bile that has been released in to the intestines they form and insoluble complex that looks like gallstones. Maybe you should take a physiology class while you are taking that chemistry class so you will learn these simple, proven concepts.
it should be child's play to round up some digestive enzymes, oil, epsom salt, and make some gallstones. but this will never happen because they are coming from the liver or the gall bladder. no one has ever given the formula for these so called saponified stones. yes soap can be made with LYE and oil, but no one is ingesting LYE, and if they did, they would die shortly thereafter.
LOL!!!! You really need to learn human physiology. The answer to how this occurs is posted above.
some people have reported expelling stones after just taking epsom salt. some people have expelled stones after drinking apple juice. some people have expelled stones from just taking malic acid. in all of these cases no oil had been consumed.
And how do they know these were stones? And where is the evidence they were tested. For that matter why doesn't everyone with real gallstones pass them when ingesting Epsom salts, apple juice or malic acid?
let us not be suc***ed into the false baiting of semantic misdirection and let us not be suc***ed into not using our basic powers of logic.
Well better start using that logic to come up with some real evidence since it was just proven in this post that these are not real gallstones. You even proved it by pointing out the lab results showed no calcium. And now you know where the alkali comes from for the saponification process and about sterol-cholesterol complexes. So you have nothing left to argue with since it has now been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that what people are passing were formed in the intestines.
Images Description Books Gallstones And Liver Flush Rules
Home
GAllbladder cleansing, Lab test& ultrasound 
Re: GAllbladder cleansing, Lab test& ultrasound 
