Hi Hve- I just met a guy that is dealing w/ the aftermath of an ayahuasca brew he ingested while living in Hawaii. He says his nervous system went into shock and after that he lost his memory, hair, muscle tone, suffered vitriole detachment, vertigo and vision became blurry. He now has sleep apnea, racing heart low white blood cell count, and high cortisol.
In medical terms, what the hell do you think happened? I assume acute liver toxicity..in this case I think the bitters would be too much for him. I recommended acerola cherry or rosehips and triphala since they're gentle.
He also said his skin is suddenly wrinkley and sags. The same thing happened to me years ago as reaction to Zoloft. My eyelids started drooping overnight and skin became really thin, face looked melted. Nerve damage? I went on high dose l-carnitine and alpha lipoic acid since I read studies that they rebuild nerves/myelin sheath, and saw immediate improvement. He's also on these but not at a clinical dosage. What kinds of things help thicken the skin?
also, how could ayahuasca and Zoloft cause this? thanks!!
If it is really ayahuasca that he took - that is a brew that has no tradition whatsoever in Hawaii, as it comes from the Amazon basin - I'd be really surprised if what he's suffering of should come from it. I've made quite extensive personal research with the vine of the gods, had myself hundreds of sessions with ayahuasca over many years and lived in the deep jungle in Peru in the shipibos territories for several months for that, years ago, and really that brew is famous for having great healing effects also on the physical level, besides the spiritual one. In fact it's commonly called 'la medicina' because of that reason.
Other plants do have an impact on the liver, for example hawaian baby woodrose, but ayahuasca is totally safe. The shipibos give it to their children, they have done that for thousands of years - them and those before them.
I think that those that prepared his brew must have added ingredients that are not meant to be added. The caapi is a MAOI inhibitor, so there are combinations to avoid. It would be interesting to know if he had the ayahuasca together with other people and what their reaction has been. If possible, also get a list of the plants that have been put in the brew.
It's quite disheartening to see the enormous tradition of ayahuasca being exploited this way, and the name of this very sacred plant be discredited because of a bunch of fools wanting to profit from it as if it was a drug.
Well he did not know this person who gave it to him, of course they were not Shipobo shamans as it was Hawaii and not in a sacred ceremony context...he has no idea what was in it, but was told it was ayahuasca. We're not so interested in what it was, b/c there's no telling, but it was clearly toxic. Maybe an expert in toxic plants or drugs would be able to identify it from the symptoms..
Preparing ayahuasca isn't anything difficult, one doesn't need to be a shipibo for that. So whatever your friend took was not ayahuasca, this might seem a subtlety to you, but it's not.
The best site I know on entheogens is http://www.erowid.org,
I don't think there are any forums there, but you could browse to see if there is anyone to contact to ask for advice.
For your friend this was a hard way to learn the lesson, and I'm sorry for him, fooling around with powerful stuff of doubtful origin is not a good idea.
Hi Hve- I just met a guy that is dealing w/ the aftermath of an ayahuasca brew he ingested while living in Hawaii. He says his nervous system went into shock and after that he lost his memory, hair, muscle tone, suffered vitriole detachment, vertigo and vision became blurry. He now has sleep apnea, racing heart low white blood cell count, and high cortisol.
Ayahuasca it self is actually pretty safe. Likely there was some type of interaction. As a monoamine oxidase inhibitor (MAOI) ayahuasca can interact with an number of medications such as antidepressants and stimulants. These reactions can ocur with many drugs even if the drugs were taken 1-2 weeks earlier. MAOIs can also react with some foods such as aged cheese, sour cream, pineapple, eggplant, chocolate, etc. MAOIs can also interact with wine.
In medical terms, what the hell do you think happened? I assume acute liver toxicity..in this case I think the bitters would be too much for him. I recommended acerola cherry or rosehips and triphala since they're gentle.
It is hard to say without knowing more of the story such as did he eat anything with it or was he drinking, on medications, etc. If I were to take a guess though I would say that there was some type of interaction with either food or medication shooting up his blood pressure and causing a minor stroke.
It also sounds like he did his adrenals in, which would account for a lot of his symptoms.
He also said his skin is suddenly wrinkley and sags.
That is a loss of elastin in the skin. Elastin formation requires silica, but is also highly dependent on vitamin C. The adrenals though get priority of vitamin C over the rest of the body. When the adrenals are taxed the rest of the body that requires vitamin C, including tissues and white blood cells, suffer from decreased levels of vitamin C. The skin is one of the lowest on the list to receive vitamin C. Therefore the skin loses elastin causing the skin to stretch and sag leading to the wrinkles. As extreme examples of this just look at the aging of methamphetamine addicts. The depletion of C leads to rapid aging and rotting teeth.
The same thing happened to me years ago as reaction to Zoloft. My eyelids started drooping overnight and skin became really thin, face looked melted. Nerve damage?
Sounds like it.
I went on high dose l-carnitine and alpha lipoic acid since I read studies that they rebuild nerves/myelin sheath, and saw immediate improvement. He's also on these but not at a clinical dosage. What kinds of things help thicken the skin?
also, how could ayahuasca and Zoloft cause this? thanks!!
These are not the same class of drugs and I don't think your issues occurred for the same reasons. Zoloft is an selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor, not an MAOI. Drooping of the upper eyelid is a known side effect of Zoloft, but I have never seen an explanation of the mechanism.
Yeah Serafina, you are right... Ayahuasca is taken safely by hundreds of peruvians (and many foreigners) every day, childs included and there is no mean reactions known... The trip can be very frightening but when its over you feel better... the healing starts dealing with your fears, progressing to a more physical level where you can heal whatever needed... Funny you mention the Shipibos... they must among the best, because I had a Machihuenga worker that had health problems and he asked me to take him in a helicopter to Pucallpa... thats a long trip from Madre de Dios in 79... I asked him why so far because their own shamans around the corner brew good medicine??, he told me they couldn't help him... so he went to Pucallpa in a Navy plane I helped him get in... I never saw him again but his familily told me he was doing ok, he was hanging around the Shipibos for a while. Time doesn't stress jungle people.. The point is that I seen many people take ayahuasca those days, some had bad trips, a lot of crying or very stressed, but next day after a short swim, we joked a lot and eveybody was fine.., locals, andean people, coastal, foreigners etc..., never saw anything wrong...
I also had Ayahuasca with Campas (Ashanincas); probably I should go back and try the Shipibo brew.. I heard it´s advertised for 20 soles (about 7 US$) at the Pucallpa airport!!!...
Here in Spain I know a Dr. who makes sessions, I went once, Sto Daime style... nice, many rich people and pretty ladies, good for status... the real thing but can't get near to the shaman's ceremony.. the Apus mantras, smells, forest sounds, insects... etc...
Bad news this Hawaiian experience... Is it illegal in the US??... when something has to be done underground, things can go wrong...
Blessings
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