have you ever lived in the middle east or mediterranean?
i spent 4 years in greece, and also spent a lot of time with some lebanese people in the states.
someone brought up a great point that if the stones are made in the intestine as a chemical reaction then all the greeks and middle eastern people and mediterraneans would be passing 'soap' in their stools for thousands of years. this was very insightful.
the detractor then said (ignorantly because he or she has likely never been to greece) that the amount of oil in the flush is much greater than what these people consume in their diets. well if this person had ever actually spent time in lebanon or greece or any mediterranean country they would see that this is patently false. i have friends who will eat 4-6 ounces of oil easy in one sitting and then even drink their salad dressing when they are finished. or how about the lebanese people who will eat 6-8 ounces of TOUM (garlic sauce with olive oil) on its own or with a small piece of bread. why aren't all the lebanese passing soap in their stool? LOL
actually they are consuming MORE oil than what is recommended in some of the liver flushes.
why haven't the historians for thousands of years been writing about all the middle eastern 'soap' stools. come to think of it why haven't archeologists found ancient soapstones in the excrement of the middle east?
because: the human body does not manufacture soap in the intestines. if it did then everyone eating large quantities of mayonnaise like the french would also be pooping out soap. and people who eat a few ounces of vegetable margarine would also be pooping out soap. lol. in fact the whole world over, anyone who ate a few ounces of vegetable fat would be pooping out soap. all through the philippines people who eat a lot of coconut cream would be pooping out soap. i think my point is pretty clear.
i had a laugh about this with some of my greek friends.
someone brought up a great point that if the stones are made in the intestine as a chemical reaction then all the greeks and middle eastern people and mediterraneans would be passing 'soap' in their stools for thousands of years.
First of all most people are not weird and obsessed enough to be picking through their feces to dig out small pieces of saponified olive oil. So this occurs a lot more frequently that people think, but most people don't dig through it and just flush.
And obviously the person making the claim did not understand how these so-called "stones" form. Some are from the saponification reaction in the intestines. The others are from a sterol-cholesterol complex. The later "stones" require not only the olive oil but also cholesterol from the bile. Regular ingestion of olive oil, such as in the Mediterranean diet, releases the bile from the gallbladder on a regular basis preventing the saturation of the bile with the cholesterol needed to form these "stones" in the intestines. See no magic involved, just simple science.
In addition they are not ingesting magnesium sulfate with meals. Did your friends consider the fact that the breakdown of the magnesium sulfate can form magnesium hydroxide increasing the saponification of the oil?
By the way they should also look up fecal soaps. They are normally formed from the reaction of alkalis on fats in the intestines. But again most people don't go looking for it in their feces. And the soaps don't always form globs that look like real gallstones.
First of all most people are not weird and obsessed enough to be picking through their feces to dig out small pieces of saponified olive oil. So this occurs a lot more frequently that people think, but most people don't dig through it and just flush.
Lmao !! Apparently you are ! . If you have never tried a Liver/gallbladder flush you are speaking out of pure ignorance. Which to any who has is so obvious.
And just what do you say to those who have gotten stones without the olive oil ????????? .
Lmao !! Apparently you are HV! Why don;t you just admit it you don't have clue as to what you are talking about. If you have never tried a Liver/gallbladder flush you are speaking out of pure ignorance. Which to any who has is so obvious.
And just what do you say to those who have gotten stones without the olive oil ????????? This should be even funnier.
That is all you could come back with? No real evidence? That proves right there that you are clueless about the facts. After all, if you did have a clue what you were talking about then you would have responded with something rational such as evidence, or at least a decent explanation to how this bogus crap could actually work. But keep up with your feces fetish if this is what keeps you going through the day.
lol is this all you can come up with ? Fecal fetish ,this term shows your ignorance on the subject no one has to dig through fecal matter to see stones ,you are desperate to come up with something to substantiate your misinformation aren't you Hv?
I took 4 oz. of oil and some lemon juice, as per instructions. I think this was Sutter's flush.
2 days later I discharged little greyish-white balls that were (and still are) hard as rock; and when I dropped them on the counter, they went Clink! You know, a hard tinny noise.
And some folks here are telling me that these hard things (I call them stones) were manufactured overnight. Right...
Unfortunately I don't have a digital camera nor do I have a scanner for scanning regular photos. You will have to take my word for what I say. Some of these things that I passed are about 4mm; some are bigger because they consist of several stuck together. Some are dark brown; most look like, well, stones. You know - round pebbles. I didn't save everything that landed in the strainer, maybe 10% of them, or approx. 50 of these things I call "stones"
I make no claims for anything - only that I know what a "stone" is. Why would I care if it's calcium oxalate or a "real" stone - whatever that means? Are we supposed to have these calcium oxalate things in our bodies? If we are, why did they choose to come out?
I looked up "gallstones" on itmonline. An article there by Subhuti Dharmananda, PhD. defines Gallstones as follows:
"Gallstones are primarily comprised of cholesterol and calcium, as calcium bilirubinate or calcium palmitate. Depending on the precise composition, the stones may be soft (more cholesterol) or relatively hard (more calcium). There may be a large number of small sticky stones, or just one large hard stone, as well as many intermediate conditions, such as a few medium size firm stones (see Figure 3). The presence of stones may be accompanied by inflammation of the gallbladder wall (cholecystitis). Cholecystis may stimulate stones to form, or the stones may induce such inflammation, with each condition progressively worsening the other."
Unfortunately I don't have a digital camera nor do I have a scanner for scanning regular photos. You will have to take my word for what I say. Some of these things that I passed are about 4mm; some are bigger because they consist of several stuck together.
Yet the bile ducts can only expand about 2mm maximum, even with dilation by magnesium sulfate. In other words these are too large to have come from the gallbladder through the bile ducts.
Some are dark brown; most look like, well, stones. You know - round pebbles. I didn't save everything that landed in the strainer, maybe 10% of them, or approx. 50 of these things I call "stones"
I make no claims for anything - only that I know what a "stone" is. Why would I care if it's calcium oxalate or a "real" stone - whatever that means? Are we supposed to have these calcium oxalate things in our bodies? If we are, why did they choose to come out?
Calcium oxalate can easily be formed from diet. Certain foods and drinks are high in oxalic acid such as rhubarb, kale, purslane, coffee, tea, etc. Oxalic acid is also formed from the breakdown of excess ascorbic acid (vitamin C). Oxalic acid readily binds with calcium forming an insoluble complex of calcium oxalate. Therefore ingesting oxalic acid and calcium sources at the same time can easily form "stones" in the digestive system. But these are not gallstones.
I looked up "gallstones" on itmonline. An article there by Subhuti Dharmananda, PhD. defines Gallstones as follows:
"Gallstones are primarily comprised of cholesterol and calcium, as calcium bilirubinate or calcium palmitate. Depending on the precise composition, the stones may be soft (more cholesterol) or relatively hard (more calcium). There may be a large number of small sticky stones, or just one large hard stone, as well as many intermediate conditions, such as a few medium size firm stones (see Figure 3). The presence of stones may be accompanied by inflammation of the gallbladder wall (cholecystitis). Cholecystis may stimulate stones to form, or the stones may induce such inflammation, with each condition progressively worsening the other."
Yes, this is all true. But the majority of real gallstones are cholesterol based and greenish. Bilirubin stones are more rare and are darker. But nether are grayish as you described these stones. Again this is why I say they are more likely calcium oxalate stones.
The dark brown "stones" or whatever they are are crushable between the fingers and are waxy inside. The grayish ones are like pebbles and don't break up.
After around 6 flushes, a couple of them I have passed stones after taking the Epsom Salts BEFORE taking the oil mixture. You don't have to go digging.
I have also seen them from chewing on parsley and lemon. I have major GB issues so it seems I would make more stones.
that is a very interesting point about the stones coming out from just the epsom salt. now there is even more evidence of what really is going on. thanks so much for sharing your personal experience. can you give us the chemical formula for the creation of Gallstones from parsley? just kidding.
there are people who pass gallstones from eating cheese, or any other high fat foods. so there again is more proof as to the reality of the situation.
i\'m very glad that the truth of the matter is coming back into the curezone consciousness. the more truth, the more people can be helped which is what curezone is all about.
My point exactly ,I myself have experience stones within minutes of consuming the Epsom Salts without consuming any fats or oils and Hv has been confronted with this before and just ignores it then continues on later with his saponification double speak. Why he persist in this pursuit is is beyond reason, these flushes saved me my gallbladder and a $14,000.00 medical bill for a recommended removal of my gallbladder. Follow the bucks as the old saying goes.
LOL saponifcation doublespeak. that is funny as hell.
i pretty much ignore HV as he has already been marginalized here in curezone except for a few stragglers in his own little island of seenoevilhearnoevil, err umm i mean forum. the funny thing is Andreas Moritz already rendered hv as irrelevant years ago and they haven't even had any exchanges.
what i am a little concerned about is the people who he is leading astray. many people these days are susceptible to authoritarian types, especially when coupled with some of pseudo 8th grade science. i just hope that people will think for themselves, do the flush for themselves if they so choose and not let little curezone fascists dictate their thoughts or actions for them.
the dynamic between little napoleonic false prophets and their subordinates has always disgusted me. but that's just because i'm a humanist at heart and believe people should be empowered by knowledge/discussion rather than being turned into parrots or coerced by false authority figures.
i'm glad that his forum is at least in the minority and for the most part people are left unfettered and allowed to choose what they believe. i suppose this is just part of the spiritual growth process; people need to experience the hv's of this world in order to then see beyond them and evolve toward a higher consciousness where truth is the main goal rather than ego.
years ago i had run into a few hv types who tried to convince me that flushes were not real. i spent thousands of dollars on b.s. vitamins and all sorts of esoteric nonsense. funny, how there is always an agenda in keeping people away from the truth of the matter. now it is easy as pie to spot these types of people, and actually it is almost humorous to see them in action.
as a humanist i even wish that hv can come to realize the folly of his ways, but i think he has many years of wallowing in the lower recesses of ego-based consciousness before that transformation can happen.
Well Im no ism at all at least not that I know of, but I do believe humans can and should transcend the herd mentality, should realize the gift of free will and seek the truth.
I do have a problem with those who place them selves on a pedestal and dictate to others what is right or wrong, especially when they are wrong. I think at some point even a child would come to the realization that their logic is flawed and need to humbly rethink their position. It seems to me only those with an agenda would do other wise.
Can you back up your claims with some actual evidence or are you just going to throw accusations around as usual.
I thought liver flushing was supposed to be an alternative health protocol, not a belief system, or religion. If it can't stand up to scrutiny, then there is something dodgy about this protocol.
If you need to try and discredit people who speak out against this protocol, this suggests to me, that there is something wrong with this protocol, otherwise it would not need such vigorous defending, the facts would speak for themselves.
As for mine, or anyone else's experiences, they are as valid as yours. Or do you believe that your experience trumps that of others? I can see very clearly the pattern of attempted character assasination on the Debate Forums , and you've just hopped on the bandwagon. Sad.
You appear to be the saddest person at Curezone mr.spud all I see of you is your condescension and bad attitude. I feel sorry for you , you must be a very lonely person.
i think you are right in a way. maybe this thread got a bit personal.
why don't you take it around to addressing the original post then. i think the person made an interesting point about all the people in the world who are consuming high fat foods and no soapstones are being released.
if you read the forums there have been scores if not hundreds of people who all report passing stones from liver flushing. the counter-arguments are not strong enough to dismiss the validity of hundreds or thousands of people's experiences.
someone asked hv to make a soapstone in his lab using oil, Epsom Salts and digestive enzymes. that seems like a good start, if he can cook up a green crytallized soap stone then maybe he has a point. no one has ever done this though, and just reciting a chemical formula is really not evidence of anything.
the most convincing thing to me is that people who do flushes do no always produce the same thing. whereas when people eat certain foods regularly the stool is always the same. if it is a simple chemical reaction of 'sterols' then it should be easily REPRODUCIBLE. this is one of the cornerstones of science, no? reproducibility. the theory of gravity was proved since it ALWAYS happens.
there was an installation artist whose name escapes me. he literally built a replica of the human digestive system called 'cloacal'. you fed it food, and after travelling through several different chambers it produced... a turd at the end. surely it can't be that hard for someone with rudimentary skills to create a 'soapstone'. that would be the end of it.
while i don't agree with the tenor of the previous poster's message, i do think the message is close to the mark. hv has consistently baited and ridiculed people on other forums when disagreeing with him. karma does seem to be at play here.
i also think one of the reasons this is getting out of hand is because it is a very important issue. if we were debating which chelate of magnesium was best absorbed in redheaded post-menopausal women from uzbekistan, then it would be a non issue. everyone knows malate would be the correct answer. but liver flushes are one of the most powerful, simple, and effective remedies in the repertoire of alternative medicine. they are a procedure that can literally turn people's life around in short order for a very few dollars. so let's put this in perspective, what is more important, a few fragile egos getting bruised or getting a message out to people who certainly need it?
you seem to lean toward level-headedness, but you have an admitted bias toward disbelieving the validity of the liver flush. but, the difference between you and hv is that you don't go around belittling others, you just have your belief and that's it. you also seem to have an open mind.
if you can see beyond your own bias you will come to see the truth of the matter about the liver cleanses.
Images Description Liver Cleanse/Flush Recipe Rules
Home
middle eastern, greeks, meditereaneans prove liver flush 
