This is NOT a debate forum, that is where you belong. That, or a raw food forum. I am here to hear what Hv has to say!
I think I speak for most of the people that come to this forum... Hv already explained what is wrong with your diet. Your intentions may be good but you are harassing us by talking about your diet.
And I am not debating, I am giving information. Anyone who wishes to debate it should probably take it elsewhere. Hv outlined some benefits cooked food and wheat has, and I showed that it didn't matter because raw food had the same benefits without the dangers.
Therefore why are you angry if this is logically obvious? (Maybe you should read the reply I made)
Do not assume you speak for people, you are one person, that's an error. I'm sorry you're angry but you should learn to control that anger as it's a part of life that ideas will confront you even ones that you don't like. If there is anything dangerous or unhealthy in what I'm saying, please let me know. What is unhealthy about fruit and free range raw eggs/wild caught vacuum sealed frozen fish?
Please I'm dying to know why you and supposedly everyone else thinks this is dangerous or a debate. It's implied that what the rest of the animal kingdom does is ideal not what humans do with heat, so why do you think it needs to be debated at all?
Moreless represents everything I disapprove of, which is why the pun that I am the opposite and backwards version of him, that's my only connection.
and yet hv has said in the past he doesn't mind people contributing when it's goal is to help others :)
so I'm sure if theres nothing dangerous I'm saying, and everything I'm saying makes logical sense, Hv doesn't have a problem with it.
There's many posts here from people giving advice besides Hv, so since what you're pointing out is being solely directed at me, it's obvious you're not really only wanting his advice, but rather you don't like mine.
If you wish to see only hv's advice, you can click on his name, then hit 'view all posts', and nothing but Hv's posts will magically appear. This advice is given to you not by hv but by me to look at his posts, so you probably can't do anything with it since it's not from your guru, but you're welcome anyway. (even spud would have seen through this flaw in your accusation, but he's too busy being biased against everything about me :/ )
Meanwhile, in the sane world where people are trying to get healthier rather than listen to their favorite person whether he have all the answers or not... I've mainly posted here not only to help others but to get some information from myself from Hv. So far all he has posted is a few benefits of cooked food and wheat, ignoring the dangers which I pointed out in a post below his. He still hasn't written back, so I'm guessing he's either too busy or agrees with me :).
People have read your advice, why do you feel the need to keep pushing this. If people want more advice they will ask, this is what people do on this forum, if they want to know more they ask politely.
Actually you may have noticed (by that I mean you have, but ignored it) the majority of my replies are to people who are 'pushing' at some sad attempt to make me look bad :)
If you're wondering why I'm backing up a logical and sound diet to help people, well I guess the answer is I'm nice. Sorry to disappoint you. I'm sure even you can understand that a post that says 'to sselerom' warrants posts by a user named sselerom. Or maybe not. It seems that you two are so solidified in their beliefs that you can't even be bothered to entertain new thoughts, and it's clear that you're right, you don't deserve people to help you if you're going to deny them, so stop trying to alienate me just because you don't agree with what I'm saying.
If you had any basis at all to disagree with me other than not wanting to exercise your brain in deep thought I'd love to listen, read, and leave you alone once shown that this diet is somehow harmful, or somehow wrong, or whatever fantasy you have in your mind. (I'd even go for some remotely wild basis at this point cause so far it's just like listening to crickets as far as counter logic goes)
You two have not been able to do anything but say that I don't belong here. Hv was begging moreless to bring himself in this forum so he could point out all of the flaws in moreless's advice, so why isnt this being done to me? It's because there are none and for some reason that's beyond me you two don't like it, and feel the need to attack me, whether you won't admit you're doing it or not...
Instead what's being done to me is being told that this information isn't information (LOL) and that there isn't any counter logic you guys have but for some reason you don't like listening to what I have. And for some mysterious reason you don't agree. You also won't share why you don't agree, but instead love to hunt my posts and spend your time trying to kick me out of a board where I'm doing nothing but spending my time trying to fight a mountain of ignorance and help people.
I'm sorry that you got the idea you wern't wanted here... Your ideas don't fit what this forum is about. If someone new were to come and read your posts they might think that what you are promoting is backed by Hv and the people here when it's not. Now you woould fit right in at the forum her that promotes raw food. But you are welcome to stay if you want to learn.
yeah what could've given me the idea I wasn't wanted here by you.. I must be crazy to suggest that after reading this in a post labeled 'to sselerom'
"This is NOT a debate forum, that is where you belong. That, or a raw food forum. I am here to hear what Hv has to say!"
Sorry but the forum isn't up to you to decide what 'fits' here. What I believe fits here, and await hv's agreement, is the truth. The truth to help people become healthier. What could be more related to that than a healthy diet. I realize hv supports cooked food, and am in the process of showing him it's not optimal to suggest, however he hasn't replied much, so I'm guessing he's busy.
It seems to me that you have a problem with people who disagree with you. Nobody is trying to get you to leave this forum, or make you look bad, (you, trying to turn this into a debate, is doing that), you have given your information, people have read it, and some have disagreed with you. Thats it, no grand conspiracy against you, or what your saying, just simple disagreement.
People are not required to explain themselves to you either, if they want to thats fine, if they don't want to, for whatever reason, thats fine too.
Right, but disagreement without premise. Would be like me saying "I disagree" to every post in the entire world. Who the hell cares if there's no reason. Your reason is hidden, so why state it, if you're going to keep the reason then keep the disagreement to yourself to, it serves absolutely no purpose for us to hear what you think about something if you're not going to give a reason for it. Understand?
If you don't, what I mean is that we don't care what's going on in your head if you don't have a reason to give it meaning. Since you say you do have a reason, but won't share it, then it's the same as not having a reason to use because we are still left with no reason. Hopefully now you understand.
Can you imagine a forum where everyone said "I agree" or "I disagree" and never stated any reasons? We wouldn't get anywhere.
Wow you are so smart. How have we ever enjoyed reading this forum with out your brilliant incite into raw food. Thank God you make sure to bring it up on every post like what kind of jug to use for D.E. water.
Look, you been on Curezone for 40 hours and have managed to annoy most readers of this forum so try your nonsense elsewhere.
"Can you imagine a forum where everyone said "I agree" or "I disagree" and never stated any reasons? We wouldn't get anywhere."
Who's we, I am replying to you, not the whole forum. I do not agree with restrictive diets, I believe in balance, and a restrictive diet, (particularly one based on flawed information), is not balanced. Why do you need any more explaination than that, you are the one making the claims, not me, the burden of proof is on you, to show that your claims are true. You have failed to do this.
You may think your advice is wonderful, but it is of no use to people that have not asked for it. Rather than trying to use Hv's forum to push you particular diet, why don't you put the information out, and wait for people to ask you about it, if no-one is interested, maybe this is not the place to be putting out your information.
If you are interested this is a partial quote from hv copied from one of the questions below as to why some raw foods are unhealthy...
Raw food diets are not safe as I have pointed out several times already. To include things like raw fish is even worse since it increases the risk of parasitical infections.
Thank you charly for voicing a real concern, however I never advocated dangerous egg whites like he's talking about in that post. Read this post of mine, where it clearly says:
http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=1670919#i
"After the two weeks or as soon as your bowel movements are effortless you need to immediately implement a single or half of a raw organic free range egg yolk per day.Not the egg white, not the shell, not even the egg yolk sac (cut it open and drain out the yolk), just the yolk. Then drink the yolk or half of it (can put it in your orange juice, not store bought orange juice that's forbidden, just natural OJ or drink the yolk with nothing else). Continue doing this everyday increasing intake by one yolk, if your stomach gets upset at all, go back to the day before amount and stay there for 3 days. Then add half a yolk, and continue this process until you get up to about 5 yolks a day. Stay there, continue the fruit eating, and live happily ever after or simply give it up and go back to the death trap diet."
I also REPEATEDLY advocated free range organic egg yolks. These have lower risks, and if you wash the eggs and handle them carefully there is virtually none. Our immune systems are like athletes in the sense they have to stay trained to be in shape, by being modernly 'hygeinic' in food consumption peoples immune systems, especially in regards to bacteria, is weakened, which is why I specifically reccomended going at it slow, starting with half an egg yolk and monitoring how your stomach handles it. When it comes to food, unfortunately yes you have to use your brain.
As far as fish, I reccomended solely wild caught salmon(and tilapia for the poor folk, still wild caught and frozen), not wild salmon, not salmon, wild caught, frozen, and vacuum sealed salmon. First of all the wild caught part means it's unlikely to be infected by parasites, and it doesn't matter because the freezing kills the parasites any way. Thanks for your concerns as I see that was probably unclear at first, really, but I did say them in my other posts.
Therefore there is still no danger, albeit yes in a world where our hygeine has become so absurd (cooking food) that our immune systems are substantially weakened, you do have to be careful, but if you follow what I said you will be perfectly fine.
I also wasn't advocating just a 'raw' diet, like eating raw beef or something stupid like that, but rather a specific diet that is supplemented by safe animal food, and extremely safe fruit.
I've eaten hundreds of raw eggs , they are safe as long as there is no shell in there (most bacteria is in the shell) and you drink it as soon as possible and don't leave it lying around.
For pregnant women it may not be such a good idea but this would also apply to raw salads which can also harbour various bacteria.
As for this whole debate thing , if hven debunks wacky theories with truth (or advocates such theories himself) doesn't this constitute worthwhile information gained anyway?
You must not have much of a life if you are healthy and have to antagonize people like this. Are you narcisitic or somthing?
And who cares anyway. You spend so much time advocating your diet to people who don't care to hear it. You are like those bible bashers who stand outside churches bothering people who just want to have a quiet saturday or sunday enjoying something they have hope in.
"and by the way, anything besides a fruit/raw fish/raw eggs diet isn't going to either be (1) a healthy diet or (2) contain all the nutrients you need."
I believe this was your first post here. And nowhere does it say egg yolks. It was not until I brought up the dangers of raw egg whites that you changed your claims to egg yolks instead of just eggs.
About the egg yolks. Please show me the post that has a date before this addressed to me about egg whites.
The level you've degraded to in order to insult me Hv is saddening, what you're doing would be like me going to every post where you mention 'cooked food' and ask you why you didn't list the health dangers of a BigMac. Wait, you mean you didn't mean all cooked foods? Or when you say cooked beef or whatever is ok, you actually mean there are certain guidelines around it like it shouldn't come from sickly and steroid-induced cows? Or maybe that soymilk shouldn't be 100 years out of date, so why don't you say the word "fresh" infront of soymilk each time you advocate it. Maybe because it's not practical and if someone wants to know more about drinking soymilk they can read more of your posts.
I am a frugivore (eat solely fruits and vegetables plus lots of greens and some egg yolks) and that works for me beautifully. Of course I have to eat about 2 to 4 pounds of fruit per meal, but that´s easy now and pleasurable.. As much as I would like people to know of the benefits of this species specific diet, the worst way to do this would be to impose myself. It would be a deservice to good, reliable and testified information and reference on the success of SOME low-fat, raw diets.
So you end this post saying:
I've mainly posted here not only to help others but to get some information from myself from Hv. So far all he has posted is a few benefits of cooked food and wheat, ignoring the dangers which I pointed out in a post below his. He still hasn't written back, so I'm guessing he's either too busy or agrees with me :).
Then I ask you why did you write this in your answer to him?
Good luck patching up the invincible monster of the erroneous cooking diet, I simply don't have time to point out the errors in your responses, as there are so many basic ones it would literally take a book to correct all the wrong concepts and portray common sense like cooking is unnatural to this cult-like atmosphere.
You lost such a good occasion to make your points (just as Hv did) dismissing the opportunity with such a superficial and easy argument. You have the time to write enormous posts when it comes to defending your attitudes, so why not spend time to gather sound evidence and reference to counter Hv´s arguments? There´s still time. Why not take the opportunity?
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