What you are talking about is not realistic, there are laws in place that prevent a foetus from being aborted late term, , and I have not seen anyone on this forum supporting late term abortion, perhaps you would like to point out the posts that support a woman's right to abort a late term foetus.
In fact I've not seen any posts on this forum advocating abortion at all, what I have seen is people advocating that women should be able to choose whether they wish to give birth or terminate a pregnancy, and that it is a decision for her and her alone, not anyone else.
"The more I thought about it the creepier the issue got"
Exactly ,denial is essential to the pro abortionist! One cannot allow themselves as a pro abortionist to really think intellectually about the act of abortion ! Morals and ethics must be set aside as is reasoning and logic. A focus must be maintained on an illusive contradictory concept of choice that may offer one of the two personages a choice while denying the other! The misnomer ,choice, in the context of abortion is intellectually illogical!
"Exactly ,denial is essential to the pro abortionist! One cannot allow themselves as a pro abortionist to really think intellectually about the act of abortion ! Morals and ethics must be set aside as is reasoning and logic. A focus must be maintained on an illusive contradictory concept of choice that may offer one of the two personages a choice while denying the other! The misnomer ,choice, in the context of abortion is intellectually illogical!"
No, we femi-nazis PRO-CHOICERS DO use our intellect and see that it is a woman's choice and said woman has a right to control her body. Abortion is quite intellectually LOGICAL!!!
It is the Right to Lifers that use riled up emotionalism wrapped up in dogma to try to take that right away.
Well if you abortionists are so wise then tell me lolite ,when in your eyes does the child become, according to you, a viable human beyond being considered a candidate for abortion?
Add to that the the main voice collection themselves do not posses wombs and have no resonance with the issue. Many eat meat and are pro war.
You do the math.
It's more controlling of women against their will.
Perhaps there should be a law that all boys at the age of 12 should have a valve placed in them that can close off the transportation of sperm. Issue solved..
Then when pregnancy is wanted, open valve.
But of course men would scream bloody murder of the violation against their will and their body. Oh when the tides are turned. ;-)
"Perhaps there should be a law that all boys at the age of 12 should have a valve placed in them that can close off the transportation of sperm. Issue solved..
Then when pregnancy is wanted, open valve."
--You may have something there. It would probably damage his health too much though.
Better yet, teach them what I believe to be true ... (I expect many negative votes for this one :) :
Sexual intercourse diminishes vitality and shortens one's life span. It is intended by nature for procreation.
It is the idea that we can "fool mother nature" that leads to the issue of unwanted pregnancy in the first place.
Unfortunately, the entire world of advertising promotes sex; we are constantly bombarded with it.
"Sexual intercourse diminishes vitality and shortens one's life span. It is intended by nature for procreation."
If that were true some of the "horny" yogis would have died long ago. lol
I think its an issue of balance and harmony. It is all nature per se. Even the toxic chemicals were born out of nature even though a part of me is resistant to admit that.
We are playing a game of balance and harmony vs disharmony. The good ole yin and yang polarity flux-a-rama.
I used to see nature as some sort of set point but its in flux too. Nature is also animalistic and quite savage and barbaric as well. It shows more that the entire game (life) is holographic in all of its natures and quite polar. Struggle drives the entire enchalada. Even the Buddha realized it. And for you christians among us....suffer unto me little children.
Playing a game of pain and pleasure and riding a balance point to create harmony. It really gets interesting when one's idea of harmony is another's disharmony and so the struggle continues on and on and on.
Just thinking out loud again. The grand experiment continues. Some call it sacred. Some call it savage. Free will.
"A focus must be maintained on an illusive contradictory concept of choice that may offer one of the two personages a choice while denying the other! "
First off it is not conclusive that the fetus is a "person." Most of the Science I have seen claiming this is spun data at best. In fact I have seen other data that says the soul enters (not at conception) well into the pregnancy once all the systems are ready to interface with.
Here is something to consider. If there were twins but they shared a liver and a heart. What would you do? If it meant that neither would live long if they remained attached would you keep them that way saying this was "god's" intention or would you play god and choose one of the 2 to live? Would society make the decision or the mother?
And yes these issues are important to consider.
When you place the importance of an unborn fetus as equal to a person who has a life, personality, etc and want to force that person against their will to have an unwanted pregnancy, it tells an interesting story.
And then there's free will. How do you feel about that?
If you find this exploration "illogical" I understand.
"A focus must be maintained on an illusive contradictory concept of choice that may offer one of the two personages a choice while denying the other! "
First off it is not conclusive that the fetus is a "person." Most of the Science I have seen claiming this is spun data at best. In fact I have seen other data that says the soul enters (not at conception) well into the pregnancy once all the systems are ready to interface with.
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--OK, I've read that the debate is becoming more about personhood. The questions "when does life begin?", "when does personhood begin?" are the focus here.
--What I take issue with is people who state that an unborn baby one day before birth is a "fetus", yet is fully able to live outside the womb at this point.
--I think that the pro life choice use of the word "fetus" and never "unborn baby" is propaganda/spin. I also agree that the pro life side also uses propaganda.
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Here is something to consider. If there were twins but they shared a liver and a heart. What would you do? If it meant that neither would live long if they remained attached would you keep them that way saying this was "god's" intention or would you play god and choose one of the 2 to live? Would society make the decision or the mother?
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--Honestly, I have no idea. I'm glad I never had to make that choice. In nature, they probably would have both died. The doctors involved also might have a role in deciding, I don't know what I'd do.
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And yes these issues are important to consider.
When you place the importance of an unborn fetus as equal to a person who has a life, personality, etc and want to force that person against their will to have an unwanted pregnancy, it tells an interesting story.
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--I assume you mean "you" in the general sense. I don't consider the unborn baby "equal" to the mother. I value life at all stages (including animals; I don't eat meat)
--I don't want to force a person against their will to have an unwanted pregnancy. I think that in most cases, the choice is made when the decision is made to have sexua| intercourse. Margaret Sanger held this belief also. People will choose what they will, I am an observer, that's all.
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And then there's free will. How do you feel about that?
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--You think we have any left? It's being eroded by government every day. Free will is a law of nature, yet those in power don't want us to have any. We do what we can within the confines of our "gilded cages". (Not sure whether you'll understand what I mean; words can be pretty limiting).
--Do you think our votes on the abortion issue will really make a difference?
(I am not an activist on either side of the issue).
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If you find this exploration "illogical" I understand."
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--Not at all, I find it a truly refreshing change from the typical dogma each side usually regurgitates.
"I think that the pro choice use of the word "fetus" and never "unborn baby" is propaganda/spin. I also agree that the pro life side also uses propaganda."
The word foetus is used because that is what an unborn human is called. It is the subjectivity of the person reading the word that adds whatever connotations fit the beliefs and culture of the person reading it.
The rights of a foetus, a day before it is born, are in fact taken into account. This is why there are laws that govern the circumstances of late term abortion. It is also why late term abortion is very rare. In my country a court order must be given, before any late term abortion can be performed.
"--Honestly, I have no idea. I'm glad I never had to make that choice. In nature, they probably would have both died. The doctors involved also might have a role in deciding, I don't know what I'd do."
Now lets apply the same mode to the abortion issue.
In nature, away from politics and societal demands, a women would be free to do with her body what she wanted. Gotcha ;-)
So if nature is the set point of free will the all this is moot.
"In nature, away from politics and societal demands, a women would be free to do with her body what she wanted. Gotcha ;-)"
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--In nature, she wouldn't have her feet in stirrups, having her uterus scraped out or whatever techniques they use in hospitals and clinics to "terminate pregnancies".
There are herbs that will do it, but in a different way. And in nature if a women is traumatized into pregnancy she would often end her own life as well.
These things are not so cut and dry but in the end it always comes down to personal decisions....and always should.
"There are herbs that will do it, but in a different way."
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--I'm sure there are, although that information has probably been buried pretty deep. Medical wouldn't like it. They'd lose far too much money, as their surgeries etc. would no longer be in demand.
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"And in nature if a women is traumatized into pregnancy she would often end her own life as well."
--Don't know about that one; I'd imagine that the scenario could unfold in many different ways.
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