Hi folks,
I thought it would be best if I elaborated just a bit on the issue of "off-topic", as WY puts it. ( When I posted the forum subheading, it was in the interests of a simple reminder to anyone--it's very easy to *not see* what is directly in front of one day after day, if the whole tenor of the surround is allowed to 'morph' into something it isn't, or rather, wasn't.)
I -and I think some others too- ( :-)) have no issue with what is "off-topic", when it relates to the broader context of Natural Hygiene, or whatever better name anyone can come up with;let's say, the lifestyle that embraces the water fast, and contributes to it, as well as benefiting from it.
Myabe it would be good now and then to put "off-topic" into the heading, but usually people DO put something there that would alert others: like "just thinking". And this kind of musing is often really wonderful.
It's when the general dialogue, (and guidance shared) begins to be coming from a context of calorie-counting, weight loss primarily, and a numbers fixation (all these befitting the "weight loss" forum, or the "fasting debate" forum, as this forum subheading advises) that the whole thing falls apart. There are countless hours that many people have devoted to this forum in the interests of leading people out of deception.
What I see with some of the (frankly off-topic) postings is that they are off-topic from before the beginning. Please give this some reflection. If you are someone posting who continually has to state that others do not agree with you, or are someone who believes that sugar-substitutes are fine on a water fast, as long as it's "0 calories", you owe it to a sense of respect for a proven tradition(and, to self-respect) to take your posts to the appropriate forum, where you are not undermining the fabric and integrity of this one. You will know the truth of where you stand on this, by just honest reflection.(Not the reflection in the mirror, which NH has taught us, is a transient and ephemeral thing, but by looking "within". That kind of honest self-reflection.)
Of course, this might sound like paramilitary policing(to WY for example, and others)but that doesn't mean it is.
People have been fooling themselves since forever--and yet, even many of those have seen another way, seen a whole 'sea change', after completing a water fast according to their visions of one!
This post is just a call to the ability to discern enough to put apples with apples, oranges with oranges.
I won't be back to this thread, but others will, so please do not post something in reply in anger, or from an imagined personal insult or attack.
This post of mine is arising from my wish to partially pay my 'debt' to others who've come before, (yes, and after!) and who've given, as they have learned, pure and selfless -and most important, true- guidance to others, even at the cost of being 'liked', or seen.
Chiron, again, THANK YOU!! You are so right. I hope that those who post pretended "off topic" advises, which end up being expressions against the Water Fasting topic itself.. go away, or stay under a constructive spirit.
I am also very grateful to this forum and to people like you. I owe it my health-physical and emotional- that I regained thanks to WF, and also my new look (if I want to think in terms of lost pounds). But nothing is better that this empowering feeling of independence, knowing that my body is mine and that talks to me and tells me that I will be OK as long as I pay attention to what it tells me.
Yes, I agree. Chiron's presence at this Water Fasting forum is like none other I've ever seen. She gives heartfelt advice, and is genuinely hurt when someone deviates, or suggests a deviation, from the letter-of-the-law of Water Fasting.
C...You have helped me more than you will ever know.....WY
Not "hurt", WF. That would be insane. :-) Concerned and saddened sometimes at the errors, that's all. (it's not quite semantics, though it might look that way.) Uncompromising compassion is what I respect and aspire to. (Of course that entails purification, but eventually it comes around to the middle way.)
So, please don't "you" be hurt, and instead, let's resolve to let go of errors and the thought systems in error, and stop allowing ego be the crossing guard. I make errors all the time, I've discovered, but I see them a lot faster these days, and it really inspires me. NH is good. It's not ALL about NH, but it's agreat foundation, eh?
woops! I just realized this was the thread I wanted to leave free of debate! Ah well, it was/went "off-topic". That's all from me. Let's pray for Japan.
Afflicted....If this Water Fasting forum is going to help the new people to fasting, then the mention of Aspartame as a legitimate way to Fast, must be disputed.
I, personally, like the 'strictness' of this forum. If you're unwilling to uphold the integrity of pure Water Fasting, then it's time to take your business elsewhere....myself included.....WY
please note: I just scanned your last post for the gist of it.
In the past, there was Chris B who would takes hours upon hours to repeat the same advice, and post the same links, and suggest the same foundational reading on ****what constitutes a water fast and why and how it works****, (please search the links on this forum) in order that prospective water feasters (lol) understand what they were embarking on, (and how changing it alters all the good, and constitutes a form of starvation. This is NOT healthy, and this ( and such) practice(s) has (have) a way of destroying the good. One almost begins to think 'allopathic troll'. This is the effect of insisting on infiltrating (persisting with) a ("boring")forum whose mandate is clear, and then giving/espousing bad advice.
Look at the results. People who quickly "lose" their fasts...who feel worse than before, who distrust nature...
who hate themselves...
These issues are all too big for a forum where some are posting saying "sure, go ahead! whatever! As long as you take in 0 calories! This is not compassionate--but reeks of hatefulness, whatever its guise.
It's not enough to encourage others to ask anyone who passes for their opinion! This is not a chat room--so, if one finds it boring, you know what to do.
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"Water + Aspartame is still mostly a water fast," (to quote you) is mindless horse manure, to be blunt. ( You may be quite intelligent, but this KIND of statement is a waste of time, incendiary, and nonsense.)
"mostly" is not what this forum is. That's the fact of it. This has nothing to do with "you" or your ideas, and whether they are 'liked' or not.
If you don't like it, this forum) start another! Please!
There are enough folks who object to the 'olde ways' that there should be a real party just waiting to happen. What's lacking? What's stopping the fun? Someone who does more than complain or wish to change this forum, when some other person wants to clarify its mandate.("me")
Go elsewhere, and there is no one left to fight or be held down by. It's that simple. :-) I respect what has come before me ( and is proven) enough that I care about the truth. That's really ALL I care about these days. This forum may live or die, but the truth will survive. I would hope to save the forum for those who might come along and be serious and prepared to drop the BS and crap.
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The "new age" is the age of self-responsibility! We should celebrate this. But it takes some self-study. It takes some self-discernment--and this comes AFTER the study--not after the message boards, as they are called.
(personally, I think a lot of folks were funneled here this year off some message boards somewhere on weight loss--the kind of places where people want to keep eating crap, and are fixated on calories. This behavior has NOTHING to do with the water fast. And though plenty of people may struggle initially with weight and such concerns as eating crap (google Mouse click, to see a change in thinking), almost everyone who gives the WF a serious try with respect for the past has a good experience!
Short of that study etc., (and one would then grasp where aspartame fits, and be thus liberated from a lot of suffering!), I am compelled to repost this---
"Modified Fasts or anything other than this, belongs either in the General Fasting, Fasting Debate, Juice Fasting, or Fasting For Weight loss Forums. Thank you."
best, C
yes. admittedly, I do get tired of the SAD (diet and determined mindset) BS. This is the water only fasting forum. It's simple! Don't like it, start another.
that's simple.
Totally. Been water only fasting for many years. I've tried one of those - add the non-calorie drinks at one time. The fast lasted about 4 days and I didn't feel it did a thing to help in any way. Seems pretty cut and dry to me - WATER FASTING ONLY - made me feel I would be amongst like minded individuals - not those trying to endorse adding extras. There was a fasting for weight loss site was there not? Go there. To me it's akin to a person who wants to be in a group discussing auto mechanics - but instead joins a group of floral designers and tries to change them to think like auto mechanics. Just go to a group you agree with.
"Nevertheless, I think people deserve support even if they don't heed the advice."
okay--This is great!!!!!!!Esp. if you are being honest about supporting all this. But this forum is not that place...that's all. "SUPPORT" to me, as used, often brings up a picture of a place people were told would be "okay" when Katrina hit. Do you recall this? It was a 'super' dome...it was horrific.
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