The sources I gave u were the only ones I could find. I've been scouring the web trying to find other sources to back up the "bifidus is bad" theory...not much surfaces.
However, there ARE reports that probiotics in IMMUNOCOMPROMISED people may contribute to a worsening state. My immune syste IS compromised, as evidenced by chronically low WBCs, and all my infections and metals. Thus, would probiotics be doing more harm than good?
Some argue that probiotics HELP the immune system...others say otherwise.
Petlurv, for people like ourselves, I cannot see why we can't use goats milk and turn that milk into yogurt with the added benefit of removing the offending bifido strains altogether. I see that Custom Probiotics have a rather good powder with none of the offending strains mentioned above. I've been using CP yogurt starter culture formula 1 with some success. The product contains L. Acidophilus, S. Thermophilus and L. Bulgaricus starins. I decieded to buy a yogurt making machine and get some goats milk and get making some lovely yogurt. It's much easier on the bowels and gets the strains into all the right places. Seeing that goats milk is far less allergenic than cow's milk why not give this a go. C
I'm allergic to casein...but I plan on making nutmilk yogurt. I bought a starter from G1Pro health. I hope it works, cuz I've tried it before and it failed.
Do u have a good recipe for nutbilk yogurt?
Also, do u know how much cfus are produced in nutmilk yogurt in a serving (and what is a serving? how much should be eaten per day)?
Hver, you know your stuff so I will respectfully disagree that systemic candida infections are extremely rare...
"A weakened or undeveloped immune system or metabolic illnesses such as diabetes are significant predisposing factors of candidiasis.[15] Diseases or conditions linked to candidiasis include HIV/AIDS, mononucleosis, cancer treatments, steroids, stress, and nutrient deficiency. Almost 15% of people with weakened immune systems develop a systemic illness caused by Candida species.[16]
reference: ^ Odds FC (1987). "Candida infections: an overview". Crit. Rev. Microbiol. 15 (1): 1–5"
It seems to me that the evidence points to beneficial flora controling the growth of candida YEAST, but once it's gone into the fungal form it becomes an aggressive parasite and completely overtakes the intestines, absorbing all nutrients for itself and sending spores into the bloodstream to seek out weak points to expand its colonies.
But I think the strongest evidence is anecdotal, with tons of people stating that even kraut and kefir did them no good or made them worse when they were severely overgrown.
There are tons of studies like below in regards to probiotics in pill form (not kraut and kefir):
In a study done by the University of Washington in 1990 they found that "Most of the lactobacillus containing probiotics products currently available either do not contain the Lactobacillus species and/or contain other bacteria of questionable benefit."
So my posts are that REAL probiotics (not the over priced pills) should be the LAST STEP in treating a candida infection. Alot of folks are just eating tons of probiotics and wondering why they can't get better. I went that route at first and quickly realized that trying to put out a fire by spitting on it doesn't work.
Hey what do you mean by "real probiotics"? I cannot drink kefir because I am allergic to the casein in dairy. What else can I take that has these "real probiotics"?
Real probiotics are ones you make at home and contain huge counts of live organisms. The yogurt, sour kraut, and kefir in the groceries are complete crap and usually contain sugar and other additives. Homemade kefir and kraut will explode a jar if you seal it.
You can use your probiotic capsules as a starter for kraut (see the "Body Ecology" website for more info on this), or get water kefir grains that make a slightly carbonated beverage.
The basic concept is using traditional, time-testing methods of making your own probiotic food at home. The store bought stuff is overpriced, aggressively marketed, and seems to be ineffective in healing candida, per the contributors of this forum. I will say that POSSIBLY, as the final step to healing candida, you could maybe ingest tons of probiotic pills, but at $35 a bottle I'm not doing that experiment!
You buy your kefir grains once and they actually grow with each batch, so you can share them or eat them and never have to purchase again.
Hey what do you mean by "real probiotics"? I cannot drink kefir because I am allergic to the casein in dairy. What else can I take that has these "real probiotics"?
Not all kefir is made from dairy. There is water kefir, soy kefir, coconut kefir........
There are also other cultured foods such as natto, miso, tempeh, sauerkraut, etc.
Systemic Candida is rare. Fungemia or Candidemia attack people with an extreme weak immune system. (AIDS, Cancer, Advanced Diabetes or any serious terminal illness) The syndrome that we discuss in this forum is Candida Related Complex ( CRC ) Many people use the wrong definition of " systemic candida " to this condition. This syndrome is an intestinal fungal overgrowth and its symptoms around the body. It is a mucosal infection and not a systemic infection. Candida release toxins and metabolic wastes that circulate in the blood an cause symptoms around the body (blurred vision, itching, brain fog, etc) This doesn't mean candida itself is present in the blood. If this happen, it is only hours what you need to be in IC in critical condition. Regarding to probiotics, there isn't any evidence candida can use bacterias as a food source. At least, I don't know about any.
Jorge.
Ah, it's the classification of the exact disorder that I'm using wrong? It's confusing because the terms you listed are used interchangeably even in research articles and are not well defined.
Thanks for the clarification! I'm new to this site. :-)
"Once the Candida has a digestive dominance it grows root like structures, Rhizoids, which penetrate the gut wall. This allows the Candida to establish colonies outside the gut. This is termed a systemic infection. The parasite is now able to colonise any area that the blood can reach. It thrives in anaerobic conditions (low oxygen) so its first targets include joints, sinuses, muscles and other organs where oxygen levels are low (indicators are joint pain, sinus problem, aching muscles, repeat headaches, low level or migraines)."
So what is described above, aka "leaky gut" and candida colonizing in other areas of the body is not a systemic infection, but needs to be categorized as CRC, correct?
Ignorance of that website. That isn't correct. Candida don't get the bloodstream and colonize other body parts. If candida get the bloodstream, you have candidemia that is a critical condition. Sinuses, vagina, ears, skin, etc are exposed areas that get candida by direct contact with the exterior. Colonization of "external" parts is possible when the competitive flora and the immune system don't offer adequate protection. You will find many no-medical websites telling candida get the bloodstream, even some who say they can see candida in a "live" blood analysis under microscopy. That isn't correct. To detect candida in the blood is necessary advanced medical tests. In the past, many invasive candidiasis cases were fatal because the delay obtaining a positive result, still many are fatal. Do you think a simple look under microscopy can detect candida in the blood ???
After you continue reading, you will realize how many myths about this syndrome are circulating in the web.
I hope this help.
Jorge.
Indigoaura, you are correct in your original understanding of systemic candidiasis. It is a system-wide candida infection caused by fungal colonies extending rhizomes through the intestinal lining; penetrating into the bloodstream and spreading candida into the entire body. Candida can change forms and is highly adaptable.
I have released candida colonies that came from the biliary network of my liver from doing liver flushes. I have also cured white fungal spots all over my skin (called tinea versicolor) as well as cured chronic and acute sinusitis. I have also cured a whole-body stinging sensation like thousands of needles pricking every cell of my body whenever I went out into the sun. Once candida penetrates the intestinal lining it becomes systemic. Don't be misinformed by less experienced posters.
Here is a photo of one of the fungal colonies I released that had a bloody red section where it penetrated the intestinal lining. It is on the upper left of the photo:
Wow! That's amazing! What was your method to exterminate the colonies? I've gotten mine under control but do know that it takes diligence to get the colonies out and then heal and recolonize the gut. My research is showing that most methods, like the diet, will only put the colonies into remission. And agitating the candida is often associated with a "die-off," but that doesn't mean you're killing anything!
I just started hydrogen peroxide therapy. I still have more research on safety to do before I am comfortable trying HP enemas, though I'm not scared to try just about anything.
I have an ominous melanoma on my thigh that changes all the time and is painful to touch that I am working on as well. I THOUGHT I was successful in burning it off with apple cider vinegar, (made a scab and fell off) but alas! I is growing back with a vengeance so I fear is rooted in the artery in my thigh. I applied HP to it last night via cotton ball and bandaid, and it is definitely pissed off, putting out broken capilaries and a more little bumps. I am not giving up, as I hear it's death struggle is the worst.
I believe you've summed up the crux of the issue here with candida:
"My research is showing that most methods, like the diet, will only put the colonies into remission. And agitating the candida is often associated with a "die-off," but that doesn't mean you're killing anything!"
This is the biggest fallacy of the anti-candida movement, and the main reason I did not post on the boards here for years. No one wanted to hear the truth! They wanted to spends hundreds and thousands on supplements and turn to "experts" capitalizing on the anti-candida awareness movement but nobody wanted on a DEEP LEVEL to HEAL themselves PERMANENTLY. Systemic candidiasis is a MONSTER and some wimpy little program causing "die-off symptoms" is not going to kill it. You must eliminate the root cause of the problem, which is eliminating the fungal colonies completely from your intestines. Most programs completely fail at this.
My method was to eat only greens and take raw garlic and candex. At one point my method included 20 cloves of raw garlic a day, 20 pills of candex, and eating about 5 pounds of green leafy vegetables a day.
I wish I could do that, but I cannot tolerate sulfur due to my high levels of mercury. Also, I would wither away by only eating greens.
Oh well....I'm glad I got into this clinic I've been trying to get in to. They are world-known for their protocols on biofilms, infections, metals, methylation issues, pyroluria, and all the other things that are wrong with me. Wish me luck..my appt is Tues!
Yes, thank you! I also think people are relying too much on supplements and that die off is NOT a good thing. People are always so happy when they are getting die off, why? It means you are taxing your liver and stressing the immune system (which is already on a low level of functioning). Glad that some people are finally starting to realize.
For me, what got my health back on track was much different than yours, but we all have to find our own cures really. You can't trust the so-called experts writing books like they know what is going on and you can't trust the people posting like they are gods of biology. The truth of the matter is, when it comes to the body and health, there are no experts. You have to become your OWN expert.
I think it will take another couple of hundred years until we start to really understand the human body.
especially when these self anointed gods have never had any health challenges to deal with. anyone who has been through the ringer knows that things rarely work out as written in books. i think that's why you see a lot of people suffering in certain forums, trusting the wrong people.
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