I just did my second liver flush. I'm very happy with the results...lots of stones released. However, I'm feeling extremely toxic two days later. I have chronic intestinal candida so that's probably one of the main reasons I feel so bad. I assume some candida was released from my liver along with other toxins. Andreas Moritz strongly recommends a colonic after each Liver Flush because so many toxins enter the colon during a flush. My problem - I can't afford it. Has anyone here felt extremely toxic after a liver flush (fatigue, heart palps, muscles burning, etc)? Were you able to handle it without getting a colonic? I was considering taking a psyllium and Bentonite mixture which is supposed to absorb toxins in the colon. Any thoughts or suggestions? Any experiences with this?
It could be intestinal candida reacting to your new found bile flow (which may have been occluded for yeeeears). Enhanced bile flow fights off candida due to its alkaline properties.
I normally don't need a colonic after a liver flush. The Epsom Salts really flush everything out. Just do an enema to save money, or look into like you were thinking of some activated willow charcoal or intestinal formula # 2. Have you had mercury Amalgams before? you could be reabsorbing heavy metals.
It is mainly the bile salts that can piss candida off. Candida and bile acids dont get along. When I have colonics done the release of bile into the colon causes the candida to release gas/chemicals as they are getting stressed out. Along with the water pressure.
Bile salts also act as bactericides, destroying many of the microbes that may be present in the food. "Wikipedia"
Bile salts do have antifungal properties but it is primarily the alkaline pH of bile that pisses candida off, which can be as high as 8.8 to 9+ in healthy bile. Sodium bicarbonate has been highly successful as a treatment against candida because of its alkaline pH which is 8.4 to 8.9.
Also, it should be noted that candida's high lypolytic activity is correlated to its use of lipase as a protective biofilm. Bile, as you know, emulsifies fats and so healthy bile flow may reduce/dissolve candida's bioflim.
But at least we agree that more bile flow = good :)
Wrong. Bile with a pH of 9.0 is 100 times more alkaline than neutral. This is not "fungus friendly".
And please don't post links to more links, with articles written from other articles. I encourage you to think for yourself. Let's look at an actual study's conclusion:
"Effect of pH on in vitro yeast-mycelial dimorphism in genitourinary Candida spp"
Conclusion: "At all three pH levels C. glabrata, C. guilliermondii, C. kefyr and C. parapsilosis isolates (57.1% of the seven Candida species) did not produce any hyphae/filaments (true hyphae) at all (Figs.1 and 2) whereas some isolates of the other species did at pH 5.6 and 7.0. Candida stellatoidea had both yeast andhyphalforms at all pH values(Table1). There was no significant difference in the effect of pH 5.6 and 7.0 on morphology of each of these three species which grew hyphae." www.niseb.org/journals/brc/brc21/brc2140709065.pdf
There are several strains of candida that are already in the hyphal form at pH as low as 5.6. There is one strain that can be in the hyphal form at anypH range. And once again: There was no significant difference in the effect of pH 5.6 and 7.0 on morphology of each of these three species which grew hyphae.
Good, now combine what you have just read with info from your favorite website, wikipedia: "The pH in the colon varies between 5.5 and 7 (slightly acidic to neutral)."
You have present in a healthy colon conditions in which candida already thrives in its fungal form. Read again: There was no significant difference in the effect of pH 5.6 and 7.0 on morphology of each of these three species which grew hyphae. All the fuss raised about "alkalinity" switching on the fungus gene is completely irrelevant. Not to mention that pH of 6.5 to7 is not alkaline, it is by definition acidic to neutral. This is exactly why impaired bile flow exposes the small intestines to candida overgrowth: because without the exposure to HIGH alkalinity of 8.8 to 9, candida thrives. And this is exactly why restoring bile flow through liver flushing eliminates candida from the small intestines.
Dr. Simoncini is one person who uses direct applications of sodium bicarbonate through selective arteriography and endoscopic applications to kill candida. Whether or not you agree with his other ideas about cancer does not change the fact the sodium bicarbonate kills candida because of its high pH of 8.4 to 8.9. Healthy bile can be as high as 9. This is certainly not "fungus friendly". I don't know how you managed to come up with that one.
Your opinions are wrong, your information and conclusions are misleading and should not be posted on a candida support forum. Not only are you wrong, but the manner in which you express your wrong opinions is derisive which is why you should be banned from ALL OF CUREZONE and not just the candida support forum.
your response to cargo is a little extreme. Getting rid of candida is more complicated than being very alkaline. Ive already tried the extreme alkaline diet and did nothing for my candida. If anything it made me more constipated and tired. Candida is so adaptive that it adjusts to ph levels. If curing candida was as simple as being very alkaline you would hear of a lot more people being cured. Our friendly bacteria produces a combination of many acids (lactic,propionic,acetic.butyric, acids) that keep candida in check and keep it from spreading. Flora does not produce any type of alkalizing substance. Most of what the body produces to ward of fungus and bad bacteria is acidic in content. For example, the body produces excess amount of hydrochloric "acid" when we eat bad bacteria from food. Its the acid that helps to kill the bacteria and flush it out of the body. I wish curing candida was as simple as being very alkaline.. I would of been cured a long time ago.
Cargo is a big boy and is merely getting communicated to in the way he chooses to communicate. For example his statement to me:
"Which is why you should be banned from ALL OF CUREZONE and not just the Liver Flush Debate Forum.
Also, WM, is it really in the best interest of CZ to have a user with an avatar that is a smiley face he made out of his own fecal matter?"
But putting his second class behavior (which is quite entertaining and cute) aside, it does not change the fact that very alkaline environments are deleterious to candida. You are correct in your assertion that getting rid of candida is more complicated than being very alkaline. Please realize, however, that a very alkaline diet and the effect it has on body pH is not the same as free-flowing, abundant Bile. Remember that the body has pH regulating mechanisms and will most likely balance out at 7.365 if your diet is alkalanizing. Bile can be as high as 9 on the pH scale which is about 60 times as alkaline!! That is a significant difference. Your past effects to alkalanize may have been thwarted by ingesting too many carbohydrates. Candida certainly can adapt to high pH levels, but I guarantee you its adaptation is severely compromised when it is starving to near death.
It is the combination of alkalinity from greens + the lack of carbohydrates that weakens candida sufficiently enough for candex and other antifungals to work effectively. And don't forget the importance of heavy metal chelation.
Have you done liver flushing? On my 7th flush my bile came out bright clear green for the first time in my life. And shortly after that is when I began to get spontaneous candida die-off.
Wrong. Bile with a pH of 9.0 is 100 times more alkaline than neutral.
Who said bile is not alkaline?? Are you so desparate for victories that you would construct straw men right before our eyes so you can knock them down? Then again, you not understanding what you read is a recurring theme, which I will show once again in a second.
I encourage you to think for yourself.
Does that mean that, like you, I should avoid reading books?
Or maybe by "think for yorself" you mean I should give my money to psychic healers? When I pay a psychic, how do I know I've gotten a good one versus a bad one?
in vitro
In a test tube or petri dish, not in human subjects.
C. glabrata, C. guilliermondii, C. kefyr and C. parapsilosis isolates (57.1% of the seven Candida species) ... Candida stellatoidea had both yeast and hyphal forms
Why are you highlighting factoids about Candida stellafrickintoidea?? Candida Albicans--which accounts for most human cases, or at least a plurality (look it up)--is not included in this study. How many people here on the forum do you think are battling C. stellatoidea?? C. guilliermondii? C. kefyr? .01%?
Also, "57.1% of the seven Candida species" does not mean that those seven account for 57.1% of the cases of candidiasis. There are almost 50 candida species. By "the seven" they mean "the seven we chose to study."
sodium bicarbonate kills candida because of its high pH of 8.4 to 8.9
I've got some news for you. Candida albicans can thrive in a pH of up to 10. Let me repeat that. Candida albicans can thrive in a pH of up to 10. I know you don't like links to scientific, 3rd party sources so I'll let you go look for that if you want to. You prefer psychic healers, and the avoidance of books and magazines.
All the fuss raised about "alkalinity" switching on the fungus gene is completely irrelevant.
Not at all. Let's re-cap what happens to candida on the pH spectrum. It can live in an environment as low as 2, and as high as 10. At a low pH - 4, 5, 6 - it's more likely to remain a yeast. At higher pH'es it's more likely to be fungal. The studies done in vitro showing that C. albicans starts to bud at 4 are not definitive about what happens in the body. But they show one important thing, the more acidic the environment the better your chances of keeping candida in a yeast form. Whereas there's no alkaline level that a human can handle that would kill candida.The fact that our colon can be a pH of 6.5 without us having candida overgrowth speaks volumes about the amazing job the good flora do, and why there are more flora living in the human colon than in the small intestine.
Dr. Simoncini is one person
Are you suggesting that people here on the Candida Forum should fly to Italy so Dr. Simoncini can inject sodium bicarbonate at the "location" of their candidiasis?
Whether or not you agree with his other ideas about cancer does not change the fact the sodium bicarbonate kills candida because of its high pH of 8.4 to 8.9.
Did Dr. Simoncini ever say that it was the alkalinity of the sodium bicarbonate that shrank the cancer tumors? And if he did, how do we know it wasn't just something particular to SB? How do we know it's not just the bombardment of sodium, that pulls moisture out through osmosis, that is shrinking the tumors? Who is the one who needs to think for himself?
By this reasoning, couldn't I just take coral calcium powder in water, which is very alkaline, and drink it down and accomplish the same thing?? Why is it that most people who have intestinal candidiasis who DO drink baking soda in water (just baking soda, no lemon juice), or other alkalizers end up making things worse? After all, it's so simple. You pour a tall glass of water, stir some baking soda, and drink it down. Straight into the stomach, then on into the small intestine, and then BAM-O the high alkalinity knocks out the candida. Right? Just like the alkalinity of bile kills candida, right??
Ive heard that sodium in general can cause yeast to self destruct. Bakers try not to add salt to the dough until it is done fermenting. This was indicated on the food network channel. The chef said " we dont add the salt right away because it can kill some of the active yeast". Maybe the sodium bicarbonate injected directly oxidizes the candida/along with the sodium?
Being too alkaline just causes me indigestion, constipatation, and lethargy.
Yes I have several Amalgam fillings. That could be causing a lot of problems as well. I'm planning to have them removed soon in an effort to cure the candida. Nothing I've tried has cured it, so the process of elimination seems to show it's the mercury from the amalgams. Anyway, thank you for the advice. I ordered some Colosan to arrive tomorrow. Decided to do that instead of the psyllim/bentonite. I'm hoping that will help me eliminate the toxins that are making me feel so bad.
Mercury gets eliminated primarily through the liver and so there is the risk when liver flushing of releasing mercury back into the system causing redistribution. Definitely get those things out ASAP and begin chelation via the cutler protocol. Also try all green leafy veggies + candex for a week or two to see if you get fugnal colonies to die off.
I entered a similar post awhile back wondering about the importance of colonics. I have decided to do one after every flush. Moritz recommends Colosan for emptying out the colon. I used this before getting a colonic and it purged me good. I found that I could smell that distinct gallstone smell (you know that smell?). Because I didn't do it until 3 days after, any remaining Gallstones were dissolved so I think it's important to really give a good flush 2 days after while realizing that an enema only reaches along a very short stretch of the large intestine. Moritz has recommended doing 3-4 water enemas so the water reaches a little further every time for to do an enema. I think most people on here don't do colonics. Yes they are expensive. Liver cleanses are so inexpensive, yet worthwhile. The colonic ruins that ballgame.
Colonics are 10x more effective of removing mucus from the colon than enemas. But if someone has "mild" candida in the colon-- colonics might be unecessary unless their doing a flush/detox that produces a lot of mucus.
Ive done enemas and they just dont do the job that a colonic can do. Enemas are good to do after a colonic. (probiotic enema, etc...
I have 4 Amalgam fillings and I went to a holistic dentist and he was able to tell by muscle testing/kinesiology that mercury was not the main cause of my problems. He said it was my small intestine and liver/gallbladder. I'm going back to get them removed in a couple of weeks and then I'm going to check out his program, he does a full evaluation and then recommends supplements along with a laser to do accupuncture. If I would have known he existed I would have gone months ago and saved a ton of money on supplements. Plus he has a chelation therapy, which he says we will not even start until my liver is functioning better. It will be dangerous to try and chelate with a poorly functioning liver. If you go to a holistic dentist hopefully he will be able to help you. I thought the same thing though, since I have tried everything else it has to be mercury.
Anyway, regarding the liver flush, I had my pre -colonic Liver Flush for my 3rd one yesterday and there was so much black stuff and yeast and mucus, no wonder why I was sick for the entire last 3 weeks. In that case I should have had another colonic after my post liver flush colonic. Either way, I feel a million times better now after getting it and don't even feel sick after my liver flush at all. FYI - for the last 3 weeks I have used liquid Bentonite & psyllium a couple of times and activated charcoal several times, helped a little, but not much. I think it's true that nothing really works like a colonic!
I got really sick on my 2nd Liver Flush also. I felt sick after, and then I got a colonic and I still felt sick. I have been sick for 3 weeks (doing my next liver flush tomorrow). I don't know what is happening. I have very bad candida also. I don't think my liver is functioning very well. I have felt very out of it and can't concentrate and just crappy. According to Andreas Moritz , you should have a colonic before and after because stones get stuck in the colon and they can make you even sicker. In his book he said if you cannot get the colonic to do a coffee enema followed by a water enema, or else 2 to 3 consecutive water enemas.
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