11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
What do you think is meant by that Rainy?:)
Rainy: I think it means Jesus did not condemn her. :)
Chavey:
Rainy, sorry but I expected your assertion of God not some jumped up guilt that the Bible quotes to it's reader. AND: Rainy, what are you trying to accomplish?
Rainy: I'm not sorry that I did not give you what you expected. ;) Women do tend to do that. ;) I also asked you, "I am also curious to know if what you believe were not true, would you want to know it, or would you not mind to continue your life living in deception? I am not accusing you of living in deception. My question is IF you are living in deception, would you want to find out the real truth?" This was your reply, "Ok Rainy, go for it:)" I thought by this you meant that you would indeed want to find out the truth if you were living in deception. Perhaps I misunderstood you as you seem to be backing out of the conversation now. When you told me to go for it, I thought you were saying that it is ok for me to continue conversation that may lead you to truth if you were under deception. Now I am hearing you do not want me to continue. I will respect that if that is what you want, or if you do want to continue to see if I can show you truth I am also willing to do that. Your throwing these curve balls at me isn't necessary for getting to the bottom of what we are trying to get at which is truth.
You expected me to give you my assertion of God. That is asking me for my opinion. Chavey, do you realize that my opinion may not be the truth? The opinion of any man or woman may not be the truth. Neither you nor I will find truth by seeking the opinion of others. There are a lot of books written giving nothing but opinions about God. Some of them sound real good, but they are not truth. They are filled with stuff that tickles the ears of people. People love it and go on in deception because they believed someone's opinion. Also, there is a false peace that can come with deception. Many of these books that give opinions about God are inspired by the occult. The purpose of the occult is to deceive. False peace can also be given by the occult to deceive. The occult likes to make us feel real good so we will stay deceived.
If you want to continue with the conversation answer my question. If you do not want to continue just ignore it and I will respect your wishes.
Scripture:
"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 6:23
Rainy, I did answer your question.
One says the wages of sin is death.
The other says that one is forgiven.
They both come from the same book so why do they contradict each other?
Rainy, by the nature of your questions I too see you throwing curved balls.
I do not choose what I think to suit myself, instead I have taken on board what some of the bible says but I will not entertain double standards.
You can put that down as I do not understand what the bible is saying, but as I said in the past I take it literally and that way only. In that way I will not interpret is to suit others or myself. I am not frightened of the truth and at the same time I will not adhere to the fears that come from the bible.
I might read other books but I do not follow their example but only to read another's opinion. I also read both sides of the question and not only what suits me, that would be futile because I would learn nothing.
I am not a "herd" person so I will not hide in a particular religion because it will make me feel secure.
At the moment I'm reading the Gnostic's, that does not make me a gnostic. I wish to find out for myself why those books were eliminated by the chosen few who tell all what we must abide by, Thomas was a disciple so why put aside his thoughts and experiences?
Rainy, you've asked me a number of questions and I've tried to answer them in the best of my ability.
I ask you ONE and you throw a wobbler:)
Yes I told you 'go for it' and all my answers are left as though your building some sort of case. So to prevent that I ask you what your assertion of god is, your reply:-
[[[ That is asking me for my opinion. Chavey, do you realize that my opinion may not be the truth? The opinion of any man or woman may not be the truth. Neither you nor I will find truth by seeking the opinion of others. ]]]
I have given you my assertions, why are you now contradicting yourself? Can you not see it?
By the nature of your questions I asked you what you are trying to accomplish, you answer by telling me that I'm backing out.
No Rainy I'm will never back out but I do wish to know what this is all leading up to because all I get is "that is interesting", well really, what does that infer?
This is what you said:-
[[[ I am also curious to know if what you believe were not true, would you want to know it, or would you not mind to continue your life living in deception? I am not accusing you of living in deception. My question is IF you are living in deception, would you want to find out the real truth? ]]]
Tell me Rainy, say that I am deceived, what is the real truth as you know it, I am ready?
Or must I not ask your opinion because it may not be the truth. Well I care not whether it is or it isn't, so you have the floor:)
Hi Chavey,
Thank you so very much for your post and honest feelings. I am excited for you that you are seeking the truth. I am doing the same. :) I know this is not only important to you for your sake, but for the sake of your beautiful children and grandchildren that you mentioned in your PM. I'm sorry that I still have not had time to answer, but I will eventually. I know that you do not want those precious children living in deception and I am sure that they hold what you say in high regard.
[For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 6:23
She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.]
I do not see these two verses contradicting each other. The first verse is saying to me that for SIN my wages is death, which I know means eternal death. That means that if I even get angry at someone, I have committed murder according to the Bible. Since I have been angry at plenty of people in my day I know that I have committed sin. That means that my wages, for even just one sin, should be eternal death, but I am so thankful that God has given me a gift so that I do not need to receive my wages for sin. I can choose to receive the gift, or I can choose to reject the gift. If I reject this gift from God I will receive my wages due to me which is eternal death. If I receive the gift of God, I will instead get eternal life. The second verse that you referred me to shows that the woman is receiving the gift. The first verse is showing me that the gift is in Jesus. Notice that it does not say that the gift is in any religion or church membership. The gift is not in any religious act. A gift is something someone gives you and it is free. I can perform the religious act of going to a Christian church ten times a week, but if I never receive this free gift from God my wages for my sin is eternal death. There are many religious acts being performed today by people. Name any one of them. Not one of them will get them eternal life. They will only receive eternal death if they have never received the free gift of God (Jesus our Lord). By the way I do not even go to church. I have found many of them to be teaching lies using a Jesus facade, instead of teaching truth.
I will go on to present my case. I know that you do not want me to present a case, but I do not know any other way to show you. This is a very important subject and if you are serious about seeking truth I do hope you will not fight it, but at least hear it out before you decide that I am crazy. Chavey, I am doing this because I care about you. It is true that I do not even know you except online contact on curezone, but God has put a care in my heart for you. That care is just a small part of the big care that He, Almighty God, has for you. For some reason He has shared just a small part of His care and burden for you with me.
The Bible speaks of a person, like you and me, who walked up to Jesus and asked him how to get into heaven. This was a religious guy, but he knew that going to church didn't cut it. I want you to read what Jesus said to him.'
"No one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again." John 3:3
Nicodemus thought Jesus meant he had to go back inside his mother's womb, but no, Jesus was talking about a spiritual birth."
My question to you today is simply, why did Jesus come to die?
Your interpretation tells me in laymens terms that if one sins the wages are death for all eternity, unless, (this is the spin) that the sinner must ask forgiveness from the son and recieve the gift of absolution.
That makes the son the saviour.
Well I want to believe in a God who will save everyone in the end.
But is this what God says he will do?
Do the scriptures teach this ?
Despite what we might 'want' to believe, we've got to figure out what God told us to believe in His Word.
Does the Bible say that 'everyone' will be saved in the end?
That would require Universalism. At the heart of this perspective is the belief that, given enough time, everybody will turn to God and find themselves in the joy and peace of God's presence.
The love of God will melt every hard heart, and even the most "depraved sinners" will eventually give up their resistance and turn to God.
So in a sense it is futile for a christian to beat themselves up over such a sin as anger.
Anger has it's causes besides it's normal pathways. For eg. I rid my anger by changing my diet, truly.
I know this might appear to be an exception but is it?
[[[ My question to you today is simply, why did Jesus come to die? ]]]
I, as you are aware of doesn't believe he did, but as he went through the process that is near enough the same, he was willing to do so.
I also don't believe his disciples turned their backs on the messiah.
I have to go, but will try answer your question later.
Thank you for the post even though you did not have time to answer the question. I do understand time issues. I have those problems myself. I see from your post that you have spent a lot of time studying spiritual things and with all of that studying you still have not found the truth. All that studying has just lead you to a lot of questions, but not truth.
I will be patiently waiting for your answer to the question when you do get some time. Then we can carry on the conversation finally getting to the real truth.
What is the point of my posting if it appears to you that I am no where near any truth that you would even accept?
I see this coming way back, so let's cut the chase and hear your account of the 'truth' Rainy.
I knew you were trying to let me dig my own hole and perhaps leave a few cracks showing in my beliefs, so tedious, believe me.
You will not detect my spirituality simply because it's within me and not based on your biblical questions.
Each to their own Rainy, each to their own.
Like I keep saying the floor is yours.
Please don't tell me that I wish to withdraw either, because it won't cut with me.
In this debate I have learnt nothing about your beliefs but a lot about you personally. So come on, enlighten me.
Chavey, I appreciate that you have carried on this conversation with me. I found out a lot about you and your spiritual beliefs. It was very interesting to read about your beliefs even though they are not my spiritual beliefs. I stand firm in believing that we all have a right to believe as we choose.
I saw you call truth "chatter". Any religion that leads people to eternal death needs to be put down as it is a false religion. At the same time people have a right to choose a false religion, however, being religious will not lead anyone to eternal life.
You said, "I am not frightened of the truth and at the same time I will not adhere to the fears that come from the bible."
Chavey, do you even realize that you are contradicting yourself here? The truth may not be pleasant. The truth may not be what you or I want to hear. The truth may even bring fear, but the truth will set you free. You plainly said that if the truth causes you fear you will reject it.
I was trying to present truth to you, not my opinion. You fought it all the way. You tried to engage me in debate with you about spiritual beliefs that would no way lead to the truth. I refused, mostly because I am a busy working person and I have no time for it. Also, I refused because I knew that it would accomplish nothing. If you want to engage in debate over things like Universalism you will have to find someone else, or you may even find some interesting debates on the internet that you would enjoy. YouTube may have some videos on these subjects. I really don't know.
No, Chavey, the floor is not mine. You asked me to enlighten you. I have no power to enlighten you. Only the Holy Spirit of Jesus can do that. He is alive and in this world today. Give the floor to Him that He may truly lead you into all truth.
[[[ You said, "I am not frightened of the truth and at the same time I will not adhere to the fears that come from the bible." ]]]
You misunderstood what I said, those fears I spoke of do not come from God but from man himself. So your conclusion of contradiction come from your mindset of Christianity:)
You say:-
[[[ Any religion that leads people to eternal death needs to be put down as it is a false religion. ]]]
You now say that Christianity that equates with what you say is a false religion for it threatens eternal death does it not?
Some examples Rainy:)
The Bible teaches that there is a fiery hell, a place that Jesus warned people about.
"And if your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the eternal fire," (Matt. 18:8).1
Eternal fire is real. Jesus said it was. In fact, Jesus spoke a great deal about hell. It is what Jesus came here to save us from.
You conclude now that your out of here, well I fully understand that for each time I have asked for your account of your beliefs, you have ducked out, take care Rainy:)
If your 'spirituality' is helped by fasting, why did you not say so?
I have asked you to let me know your thoughts yet you hide your answers in the "Chistianity Biblical" forum.
It would be interesting to know what you find instead of telling me how wrong I am.
Rainy, my mind is not closed believe me, I really would be interesting to hear your thoughts so far:)
Thank you Chavey. This was a great find for Good Friday. This was such a blessing that I took the liberty to repost it on the support forum so others may be blessed by it too. Have a great day in the Lord as you remember Him today. :)
Remember how I said that I met God? Well I didn't know at the time how to explain it, well I do now:)
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I am very happy to hear that. To be honest, I didn't know quite how to take the PM that you sent me about it. I just couldn't relate. I'm all ears if you have a better way of explaining it now. I would love to have you share it on this forum or the support forum. I'm sure others would be blessed by your testimony too. If you are not comfortable doing that, I hope that you will at least send me a PM and share it with me. :)
Re: The Truth is Jesus
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Re: don't settle in literate place"11 by chavey
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