I've been diagnosed with biotoxin illness from mold (per Dr Shoemaker's protocol). Every time I have tried to take the Cholestyramine (and later, Welchol, which is similar, easier to take, and paid for by my insurance), I've felt just awful. All the people in the case studies I've read about seem to take it for a few weeks and then they are on the road to recovery, but I just feel worse and worse. The main sxs are fatigue, depression, and brain fog (and I suspect it has contributed to increased candida issues as well?). In the 3 years or so I've been on and off this protocol, my labs have barely improved, and my memory and basic sense of intelligence have really gone downhill.
Recently I had a reaction to another supplement my doctor recommended, which has led me to reconsider whether a problem with mercury may be underlying all this. Having looked at Andy Cutler's protocol, I'm wondering if I need to re-evaluate almost everything I've been doing in "support" of the biotoxin issue. (According to Cutler, Chlorella, NAC, IV glutathione,& high-dose ALA all appear to redistribute mercury as much or more as they support the liver.).
My symptoms (fatigue, depression, declining memory and cognitive fxn, getting sick all the time...) have gotten steadily worse this past fall and winter, including Candida recurrence... and I'm wondering if the explanation is that I've been gradually mobilizing more and more mercury (symptoms seem to fit...).
I guess my questions are:
Does this make sense as a hypothesis?
Has anyone else had a similar experience, and if so, what did you do about it? And, is there a possibility that the CSM &/or Welchol also contribute to the problem, by somehow being a poor or "redistributive" chelator of mercury?
Where can I find more info about the relationship between biotoxins and mercury? (does it exist?)
PS, I do have a history with mercury- I got really sick after a dental procedure in ~2000, where I swallowed a little chunk of an Amalgam filling. Following this, I had all my Amalgams removed by a mercury-sensitive dentist. But blood and hair testing at that time showed low levels of mercury, so we didnt pursue chelation (maybe just as well, since I felt so awful after the challenge test, and who knows what would have been recommended as a protocol at that time.) Anyway, part of the reason I am revisiting whether this is really an issue is: 1) long-standing chronic health problems that fir the symptom picture, and 2) learning from Cutler's writing that the tests are essentially meaningless.
I had the same combo of mold and mercury issues. I would recommend that you go to patsullivan.com . he also went thru it. he has a blog(not that current) and wrote a book about it.
I'd be really interested to hear more about what you did to sort through it all, and what worked for you, if you have time sometime,
Meantime, I'll definitely order the Pat Sullivan book. Though from what I could see of it on amazon and his blog, I didn't see any reference to the mold/biotoxin thing... is it really in there?
jazzbones
if you check my posts on the Yahoo AMC site I have covered the way I have detoxed with supplements over the last 8 years.
Regarding Pat Sullivan if you go to his website he does cover in detail what we can do about mold. Both of us lived in mold houses here in the SW USA
al
adult metal chelation is the proper name of it. It has thousands of members and has been around for nearly 10 yrs. It will come up in a search. However it is not currently as active as the cutler-only group, frequent dose chelation.
I was just looking for your posts on the AMC yahoo site- but couldn't find anything under "almercury". Do you use a different email/name over there? What's the best way to find your posts?
"PS, I do have a history with mercury- I got really sick after a dental procedure in ~2000, where I swallowed a little chunk of an Amalgam filling. "
Uh OH! You might want to consider the very real possibility that the chunk of mercury filling is lodged somewhere in your intestines. If that were the case, then ANY chelator you took would make you sicker, not better, because it would draw it right off the filling and into your bloodstream.
Have you colon cleansed? I highly recommend a very thorough colon cleansing protocol... several different ones in fact, until you are ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that your intestines are 100% free of ALL old debris that could be holding onto that filling chunk. Definitely use products that soften old crusty fecal impaction as well as have Bentonite clay which draws out toxins. There is a photo I will never forget: of a chronic fibromyalgia sufferer with 2 silver fillings lodged right in her appendix. She had to get it removed. So...it can and does happen!
Also highly consider that you have intestinal candida in the fungal form from your mercury exposure. It is also possible that one of these colonies have grown around or even enveloped this filling particle... if this were the case you would be in big trouble because candida readily methylates mercury (which then gets absorbed into your bloodstream, later converting back to inorganic mercury which is what is really toxic).
As for you chelation protocol, you are on the right track. If it is not making you feel better, it is not working. If it is making you worse, STOP! DMSA and ALA are inexpensive and you can do effective chelation for roughly 50 bucks a month.
Thank you Michael-
and yikes, those are some very sobering possibilities.
I have done quite a bit of colon cleansing- (3-4 week-long cleanses per year, for the past 3-4 years) mainly using blessed herbs psyllium/ Bentonite formula, so hopefully most everything is cleared out, in that sense. I generally feel better when I am cleansing (strange, because at all other times the hypoglycemia runs my life, but somehow not when I am cleansing.)
But I will keep your ideas in mind...
And yes, it IS time for a new protocol. It's so tricky, with these things where the expectation is that you might feel crummier before you get better--- how do you know how crummy is too crummy? (Now, I know!)
There should be (ideally) a positive and gradual change in the way you feel while on a round of effective chelation, with potentially temporary drop as you end the rounds due to redistribution. But it should be an upwards trend overall.
I have been reading a lot lately.. considering everything, even things people avoid... at some point I would like to try DMPS taken cutler style. I would also like to try chlorelle/cilantro (which supposedly is good at mobilizing and drawing mercury but not good at escorting it out of the body) along with dmsa and ala to minimize any redistribution. Hopefully I will get some more personal experience in the coming months to share and compare.
Re symptoms. Yes very common in the heavy metal groups.
fatigue--usually improves early on with supplements and early months of chelation. If this is due to adrenal problems--extremely common with Hg--some folks *rave* over getting support.
depression. Mg might be the first thing to add if Hg is the big problem, but if you also have cadmium, maybe other things too.
declining memory and cognitive fxn. I had this. Lecithin and similar things have been helpful, but I think the fog has been improving gradually due to chelation.
getting sick all the time. Hg affects the immune system. It displaces Zn in many body chemicals according to Cutler. This has improved nicely for me over the years.
Be careful about getting lost in the mold problem and fail to address what might be the underlying problem--Hg's effects on immune system.
A nasty mold problem was discovered in her house due to a leaky roof. She understandably thought most of her problems were due to it. She got sidetracked and in the process her husband seemed to loose his longsuffering and patience. After they split I tried for many months to keep her on track. However she stopped taking her night doses, seemingly went into a manic phase of Bi-Polar and seemed to have gone off the deep end. I think we lost her. ( I *hate* to loose group members!)
Most people who are moderately sick get nice gains in less than a year. There are plenty of people who have been as sick as you and have gotten much better after a number of years of chelation. One guy is in my extended circle of friends. Two of the FDC group moderators were really sick. This FDC group member was quite sick in the beginning and now is above 95% recovered. http://whatidontknow.net/blog/how-do-you-tell-your-story/
Do your homework. There are many views out there. Choose wisely.
Thanks for your thoughtful responses. And yes, I also recently joined the Yahoo FDC group, and I recognize your name.
Have to say, I am a little overwhelmed by all the info and details and things to consider! I think my best decision so far has been to take it slow, do a lot of reading (STILL waiting for the cutler book to arrive!), and make a plan, even though I am so eager to just start SOMETHING.
Meantime, I am doing a fair amount of vitamin C, sleep, and my usual liver and adrenal supports. Also restarting acupuncture, for overall support.
I hear you about getting sidetracked by the mold issue. The ALA IV's I did were supposed to help with treatment for the brain fog we assumed was from the mold- to clear the toxins from the brain. When I had such a bad reaction, I went looking for the reason, and came across Cutler's ideas about ALA, which seemed to make perfect sense.
So I went back and looked at some old heavy metals tests from years ago.... and took them in to show my doc last week. One of them I'd done in 2008 while under the care of an NP in his office- and (I can hardly believe this)- he looked at it last week and commented that the mercury levels on that blood test were high enough that we should have looked into treating it back then! (I don't know whether to be pissed or grateful (that we didn't make it worse by chelating wrong.) So yes, I feel like I have been barking up the wrong tree for years now.
Now I am beginning to form some hypotheses, like maybe the reason I had such a hard time on the mold/biotoxin protocol was not the medication, but the chlorella I took (was told to take) along with it. The main sxs from that protocol were worsening of fatigue/depression/brain fog. Based on AC's ideas, it seems likely that I was just stirring up the mercury, while removing some biotoxins. (Though my blood markers for those haven't improved much, so I'm not sure what's been going on there.)
"Meantime, I am doing a fair amount of vitamin C, sleep, and my usual liver and adrenal supports...
== That sounds like a solid start. Cutler also has Mg and Zn on his short list.
"(I don't know whether to be pissed or grateful (that we didn't make it worse by chelating wrong.) So yes, I feel like I have been barking up the wrong tree for years now.
== Yes I understand how you feel. I was sick for 15+ yrs before I heard Dr. Mark Hyman's story and found Cutler. I was fortunate that someone in my extended circle of friends allowed his doctor to experiment on him with unhappy results. He warned me not do do the same! My friend got much better with Cutler's assistance but it took years. He looks great now but he says he still has a few remaining issues.
Re Chlorella.
== Yes, the thiol/SH groups will kick up Hg without grabbing it as well as the dithiol chelators--DMSA, DMPS, ALA. Also this was probably not good for your immune system.
You have to do a hair test for minerals (counting rules) to have any idea of heavy metal toxicity.
I actually had decay and black mold growing UNDER the amalgams, so there is some evil symbiotic relationship there for sure. Throw in the inevitable candida and you have a perfect crap storm of degrading health.
I never had major problems until my Amalgams started to decay, pieces chip off (that I presumably swallowed), and one cracked a molar from the expansion. I went from a healthy runner who got 6 hours of sleep a night to someone who could barely pull themselves into focus for an 8 hour work day in less than a year.
I made it a priority to get them out and start chelating no matter the cost.
Anyway, I wanted to say that our environment has many, many other heavy metals and toxins that are stored in the body that everyone needs to chelate - not just the mercury from amalgams. Aluminum, lead, and arsenic are major offenders. Also toxic halogens build up in our thyroid and endocrine system - flourine, bromine, chlorine, and radioactive Iodine from Fukoshima and the like. This causes horrible hormonal imbalances, polycyctic breast, ovarian, and prostate disease and cancer, sleep disorders, etc etc.
Everyone should be doing a maintenance metal chelation round every once in awhile, and Lugol's or Iodoral iodine+ Iodide daily.
Iodine was life changing, that's how toxic I was and didn't even know it.
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