In our Iodine Investigation Project, we have collected a lot of data on Breast Cancer patients taking iodine. Occasionally, the loading test after 3 months reports the iodine level dropped from the first test. A 75% saturation might drop to a 50% saturation. Then the third test will go up.
At the Iodine Conference, one of the doctors mentioned this happened to his own loading tests and some of his patients. What this seems to mean is that the symporters which absorb iodine aren't working. So the iodine just washes right past the absorbers and shows up in the urine, showing a false lab value. Think of water flowing over a dry sponge, not absorbing until it gets more water. The symporters atrophy until they get nourished.
Once iodine and antioxidants start repairing the symporters by the second loading test, the lab values will show how much iodine is being absorbed--and that will be a more accurate reading of iodine saturation.
So the next loading test will be even higher as iodine absorption increases.
Sometimes practitioners will not even test patients' iodine levels for three months. Others feel they have to "cover" themselves so they order an initial test.
Thank you very much for this post . my test was 4 months apart, and from what he has felt and your post it seems I am on the right page, thank you as it is so very informative for me,, thanks smiles Linda
This has had me buffaloed for months. The range of required supplements has a lot to do with this. My question is how do we know what dosage of each supplement to take? Are there any guidelines?
From "The Guide" at Yahoo Iodine Group
a. Vitamin C – 2,000 – 5,000 mgs / day – supports the symporters and assists as an antioxidant to detoxing.
b. Selenium – 200 – 400 mcg / day – needed for detoxification and thyroid hormone creation.
c. Unrefined salt (Celtic) – ½ tsp / day – supports adrenals, binds to bromide and assists in removal, supports symporters (sodium iodine symporters or NIS)
From BreastCancerChoices:
300-600 mg magnesium oxide (Iodine Investigation Project participants prefer
magnesium glycinate or magnesium citrate.)
When we take the minimum should it be for ALL supplements? When we take the max, should it be for ALL supplements? Why would we take the minimum or the max?
Grizz, everybody seems to experiment with what works best for them and their associates. Healthier people and children clearly can take lesser dosages.
On the other hand, if a person is diagnosed with a life-threatening disease it seems risky not to take the highest dose tolerable with all the companion nutrients. But I've known people who cannot tolerate magnesium in any form, not even as a bath additive. I was sensitive to the niacin until my body got used to it. It gave me a wicked stiff neck. So I took half an ATP Cofactor tablet. Now, it doesn't bother me and I feel mentally slower if I don't take it.
So I think my fellow CZers would agree that it's a matter of committing to Iodine therapy as a long term health strategy that evolves. From Curezone you'll see people have discovered their own supplement research has enhanced taking iodine. Zinc and Vitamin K2 come to mind but I'm missing a lot of valuable contributions.
Iodine has many surprises. Many people who started iodine for one thing wind up with improvements they didn't know iodine could affect. One of my favorite examples is the Breast Cancer patient who got rid of her life long psoriasis. Her family had spent thousands of dollars over 30 years with no relief until half way through a bottle of Iodoral.
I wish there were some better way to KNOW when to take 300mg or 400mg or 500mg or 600mg other than trial & error, or how we "feel" I don't feel anything at all if I stop taking one of the supplements or take it. So trial & error would not even work for me. I would rather just see 600mg posted for everyone so there is no guesswork. The iodine protocol is complicated enough without having to guess on the dosage of supplements. Does it hurt anything to take 600mg instead of 300mg? Is there any particular disease that requires a higher supplement level? Should the supplement dosage be geared to the iodine dosage?
I'll be on the lookout for a definitive answer to this question.
There will always be people that have problems with a supplement due to allergies, gmo's, toxins, vaccines, medications and etc.
No protocol can be perfect for everyone and each person must find their comfort zone.
Supplements usually come with fillers, flow agents and others and all these things have different frequencies from those of the original active ingredient.
The active ingredients have differing frequencies to those combined in natural foods, so these all become factors.
I have never met anyone that had an issue with magnesium or epsom salts, but anything is possible.
"Vitamin C - 3,000 mg per day (more may be necessary to detox bromide)."
*** How much more? What is the guide?
"300-600 mg magnesium oxide "
*** When do we take 300mg & when do we take 600mg & why?
Lynn made a great improvement by specifying a fixed dosage of 200mcg of Selenium. Cheers for her, as compared to Dr. Buist at the Yahoo Group that specifies 200 to 400mcg of selenium.
The Iodine Project has been going for 5 years and in all of this time, I think better guidelines for supplement dosage should have been developed. Maybe they have and I have just not found it with my extensive research.
"No protocol can be perfect for everyone and each person must find their comfort zone."
-I agree with paraboy.
But; we have the protocol / suggestions as a starting point.
It took me 3 years before I could take 600 mg of magnesium.
For some 200 mcg of selenium is perfect, but for me, in a low selenium area I took 6-800 mcg for a year. I am now on a maintenance of 200 mcg.
It would have been so easy if we could say take this for 2 years and you will be fine, but I am afraid it doesnt work that way.
So, this post is for those a little into iodine, who want guidance one step up. All self experienced or observed in others, real life.
What I do with a new case, I advice them to start lower than the protocol, then titrate upwards. This counts for both Iodine and the companions.
If their bowels get to loose; it is usually the magnesium or vit C. If constipated; (often comes with hypo T) the magnesium dose needs to be higher.
But; if magnesium fail to work, it may be that the uptake isnt up to par. Vit B is needed for that. And boron. Now we are talking complicated.
When I started this journey I was all on my own, and yes it was complicated. But listening to your body is a skill that can be learned!! One need training in this,too, if to get good at it.
I couldnt take more than 200 mg of magnesium, at most, before diarrhea would occur. And it didnt work for cramping or nothing really. I did extended searches, but to keep this short I realized that my digestion still wasnt good, and to utilize magnesium it needs to work. I realized I needed to start taking vit B again as a supplement, as the be pollen, herbs and other superfood that I took wasnt enough.
(I didnt take vit B for a couple of years due to a severe reaction on them, palpatations ++)
The vit B soon worked on my digestion,(it increases the stomach acidity together with zinc, + is involved in almost all enzyme reactions )
-best of all; tummy pains disappeared within a week! Then one poster here, Andy, told me to titrate the magnesium very slowly up to the wanted level. I changed the brand of magnesium, one that is easily digested.
I also took digestive enzymes and betaine HCL to obtain an optimal digestion.
How did my body tell me that it got the needed magnesium?
-crampings like eye-tics, that I have had for 20 years ceased to exist, hiccups that I used to have weekly is now closer to a yearly happening ! I experienced my first ever pain free period a year ago. Now 1 out of 3 periods is pain free.
20 years of insomnia also is under control.
General body pain is gone too, but this is an iodine/hypo T thing too. Of course the whole protocol has helped, but this happened after the magnesium puzzle. There is many elements involved of course, this is kept as simple as possible.
Vitamin C; it is relatively easy to know if your need more or less. Titrate up to loose bowels, then reduce until you havent.
How did I find out I needed vit C ( ascorbic acid, or magnesium ascorbate is my preferred form) Again I realized in the middle of my iodine detox that I needed more, as I got recurrent infections, something I didnt have 2 years or so before, when I took 1-3 grams daily. I fell for the myth that ascorbic acid isnt the real vit C, so I took amla, acerola, superfood of all kinds, in addition to 10 units of fruits, greens and berrries daily. Problem was that it wasnt enough to keep infections away. And I took loads, if anyone wonder!
I now know that as soon as I get a little sore throat or flu like feeling (this is generally a feeling of something is up, no energy, low temperature etc, body ache etc.)
- I need to up the vit C, loads! This is what vit c-producing animals do. I also up the iodine, to get the temperature up, in situations like this.
I do the same thing with my kids; vit c and b, iodine, sometimes CF usually stop any infection in its starting pit. If taken early enough.
One thing I have observed is that frequent urination (in children or adults) is a sign of magnesium and boron deficiency. As soon as my 15 year old has to get up at night to pee, I know he is short; well he knows it too, learning by doing (this used to be a big problem for him)
I have had the pleasure to cure this in a couple of friends; found out by drinking beer with them :-) From having to go to the loo all the time (every half hour or so) they got to my level which was 2 hours at least, just by supplementing magnesium, vit B and borax.
What one also need to consider when it comes to vit C and magnesium, are one`s stress level. Now when I have a hard-working / high stress level phase, I up these two to twice as much as usual. I forgot this last year and it was a big mistake. This year I seem to tolerate this stress level better.
How do I know the iodine level (vs selenium) is ok for me?
Simply; body temperature, energy level, brain function. After I started supplementing gold leafs in May, I needed to reduce iodine, as I went from warm to hot!! my hands was burning, my body uncomfortably hot,too! Now when I am out of gold, my iodine is up to maintenance level again.
My body speaks to me all the time; everyones body do.
We are simply not told this fact, or dont understand its language :)
Like if your body wants chocholate, we are told to resist this, as chocholate is "bad" -in this way, we learn to not trust our body. Very simple explained as this post is long enough already.Yes it is:-)
Ginagirl,
Thank you for your excellent advice. I will include this into the " Iodine References." As you say this does get complicated and there is no perfect answers because everyone is different.
I am attempting to make Iodine References as simple as possible to get newbees started, and yet still provide in depth details to help them get more into it as they make progress. Your message is perfect with a lot of nice tips & ideas for the advanced user.
If u r looking for an L50 for each supplement, then look at the clinical trials.
As far as what the maxiums are for treating thyroid dysfunctions, u would have to look at what Dr's, such as Brownstein and Flechas, came up with for the thousands of patients they have treated.
If u have the money for a clinical trial, u can find anything you want.
My point is that we are ALWAYS learning and there are no absolutes.
Lynne,
Thanks for the added background on supplements, reposted here for the record:
"I'm always surprised about how dosage can vary. Some people seem to have good aborption and some don't. There was a woman who came back with an Iodine loading test of 10%. She should have been absorbing 90%. That means she completely absorbed most of the iodine from the loading test 50 mg she took at the beginning of the test. What great symporters. So she was just iodine deficient, she didn't have oxidized symporters.
And there is another woman who had three different cancers and she got her iodine saturation up in about a year to 90%. Some are still struggling after two years to hit the 70%..
So it's hard to find any hard and fast rule for dosage. We can make recommendations for really sick people but in the last analysis, they decide to take what they want. The real mystery is why we get some people that are so bad at absorbing and a minority that are so good. They really need to be studied."
you know, these different permutations and varying degrees of absorption that you describe could all be found to be the particular parameters of particular problems such as other deficiencies or loss of some biological function in the body that has developed over time.
its been years now since i first mentioned the use of Iodine supplementation as a diagnostic tool. sure wish a more formal study could be done.
So how about(like Trapper noted) it can be that using supplements for the efficient cellular assimilation of iodine,not considering supplementing to avoid detox pain, misses how certain unconsidered basics of cellular health are essential more important.
Which might be why we find in the literature that by the ingestion of healthy lipids or water or administering DC amperage, or in using the Humic/Fulvic acids, increases cellular assimilation (or removal of the waste products also), without using the current researchers advised compounds. (Detox advise is a different subject and mentioned in numerous notes in the forum)
Increasing ingestion of water or healthy fats potentizes passive cellular transport action. Similarly intaking humic/fulvic acids' potentizes active cellular transport. This contributes to the understanding that the basics of cellular membrane health, continually degraded by modern living practices, is of pertainant interest here and perhaps minimizing the need of supplementing the ion channels exchanging/affecting components, or the cellular pump components, ect, ect.
Perhaps the situation is that while our systems appear to need specific agents to be considered healthy, and evan more agents to secure those agents, the puzzle of health and illness in the cellular factories of biological organisms, can stay mysterious when we dont actually key in on knowing what makes up a healthy cell, it's simple basic needs, the cells proper metabolic process', and what we do to degrade or contribute to the cells health.
Thus the conventionaly trained and those still oriented thusly prescribe conventional agents as needed supplements, when perhaps assuring diet might be evan more sufficient.
It is interresting how evan conventional medicine undestands how our cells can make almost(almost) all its needs if in a state of ballanced properties.
One story of interest is the study where a test subject(bacteria) confounded scientists and their religious like blueprint dna understanding, by changing on a dna level, what was thought to be their only design for deriving energy from their environment.Feeding the now growing understanding of how previous gene understanding was far too ridgid.
We can get so strict in supplementing primary elements and secondary compounds, while missing our BASIC health requirments, thus confusion is increased as to why some get better reletivly quickly and while others not so quickly, and others not at all.(consider also that evan under ideal conditions, supplements are assimilated far less effectivly than when in the form of food, being normally passed in high percentages)
A lot of this serious minded supplementing, like all knowledge, is continually modified due to common ineffectivness. However by knowing our systems actual workings continually more deeply and by experiencing sucsess w our healing work, and in opening to new and different ideas, we eventually leave that which is incompletly considered and find more actual reasons why to supplement and or upgrade our diet.
Heres a good one detailing naturaly designed assimilation data.
and how in this most interesting thread evan sophisticated highly indepth understanding can be quite pertainant yet still missguide us when the basic factors governing our health are unconsidered in the analysis purported here.
Looking for, pinpointing and destroying an enemy is our trenchant occupation, as is looking for, pinpointing and aquiring desirous objects, and we project out that orientation into virtually every way we interact w life.
Till we see how imperfect these approaches are and we find how things come into ballance when we allow systems to function with our proper assistence, as stewards of health rather than dictators. Rather than acting defensivly we learn to act as moderators.
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