Just to update on my EM experiences. Been drinking it for two weeks (just 1-3 tspns a day). As I posted last week, it worked wonders at first, really got my gut moving and cleared out what looked like old fecal matter though I didnt really see a whole lot of candida. I was absorbing much more from my food and my energy skyrocketed at times, I felt the best I'd felt in a long long time in terms of physical energy.
However, as from a couple of days ago...my gut has become more and more congested (though I'm not bloated), I'm more constipated and lost my appetite, and I've been getting burning sensations (acids presumably) in my arms (dont get that normally), sleepiness, irritable/moody, depressed, loss of motivation, a LOT of brain fog, very dry skin on my hands. I looked ill and felt quite toxic.
My instinct was telling me it was the EM but I've been so brain fogged havent been able to work out whats happening but it all points to candida or other dysbiotic bacteria.
I know this has happened with other people who've taken primal defense, after getting similar initial benefits.
Anyone else have this with EM? How did you deal with it? Anyone not had this problem with EM?
So it seems like...at least with me....it displaces candida etc brilliantly at first, but then there is a new bigger regrowth of either candida or other dysbiotic bacteria, maybe?
I've never had this with any probiotic I've taken, or kefir. So I'm wondering if its the type of probiotic thats causing the problem....I've never taken soil based organisms. OR, that it works SO well, obviously much better than any other probiotic, that candida quickly adapts and grows back with a vengeance if the conditions are still the same in the gut....due to the presence of metals and mineral deficiencies. Though I am addressing these issues.
Anyway I've stopped taking it for now and will maybe take it on a needs basis rather than continuously. Or experiment with taking small amounts a few times a wk rather than every day.
I've been reading over the EM archives in this one group and the guy there that runs it, who has taken EM for a while and in much higher doses, says that EM can bring on strong healing reactions. And I also distinctly remember him saying that one could take it for a month and have nothing happen and then suddenly out of nowhere they would get the flu or really ill (i suppose from healing reactions). Just thought I'd share that. As well as the link to it: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/EM-health/
You may be able to get some help there with what you're going through, and hopefully it's temporary and beneficial in the long run. Report back with results! Thanks for sharing
Follow this link for a list of the likely 'healing' reactions taken from an posting on the EM forum. Muscle and joint pain are listed as is GI distress. Perhaps you need to push through it...but only you can judge that.. I would tend to err on the side of safety like you!
Thanks you two, hadnt got round to posting on Vinny's group just yet.
Not sure if it was a general healing crisis or a rise in more dysbiotic bacteria leading to a healing crisis....probably a mixture of both but very confusing when you have brain fog.
Its really powerful so take it slow if you're going to try it.
> All of these concerns are something that need to be addressed, that is why ideally you would be able to consult with a clinician concerning these concerns. But as it stands, because of the lag in marketing, more often than not, this information comes from the patients then works into the knowledge base of the healthcare providers. To put this mildly, Mr.Jordan Rubin has done us all a disservice in that had he provided us with this information six years ago, the clincians would have the experience to give you good answers.
Yes absolutely. No doubt JR has justified it to himself one way or another. Thanks for raising our awareness of this issue, its all very interesting.
I like being experimental and learning that way as it forces you to become more self aware and to think more about things instead of relying on others for guidance but its still a bit scary.
I should probably avoid DE then as I still have leaky gut probs.
Thanks Maggie ;-) yes it makes sense to have as wide variety of bacteria as possile. I would feel more comfortable taking in yoghurt etc but kefir/yoghurt are sulphur foods which I have to be careful with...moves mercury around and makes me feel worse. Another complication! Though I've been thinking of making kefir again and just taking small amounts and see how things go.
The question for me was how much of this was a healing crisis...and how much was an increase in bad bacteria.
Otherwise for gut support I'm taking aloe vera and slippery elm, plus a bit of n-acetyl-glucosamine which seem to be helping. I read diatomaceous earth is supposed to absorb methyl mercury in the gut so I'll seriously consider trying that.
I mainly juice lettuce and Celery but I avoid dark green veggies and spirulina etc again because of the sulphur which is a shame as spirulina used to make me feel amazing. These juices would be ideal for the high mineral content but this is one of the problems I face unfortunately.
> All of these concerns are something that need to be addressed, that is why ideally you would be able to consult with a clinician concerning these concerns. But as it stands, because of the lag in marketing, more often than not, this information comes from the patients then works into the knowledge base of the healthcare providers. To put this mildly, Mr.Jordan Rubin has done us all a disservice in that had he provided us with this information six years ago, the clincians would have the experience to give you good answers.
Yes absolutely. No doubt JR has justified it to himself one way or another. Thanks for raising our awareness of this issue, its all very interesting.
I like being experimental and learning that way as it forces you to become more self aware and to think more about things instead of relying on others for guidance but its still a bit scary.
I should probably avoid DE then as I still have leaky gut probs.
how much of this candida do you think is related to metals boronia and do you think you can get rid of the candida without the metals being removed....
i know what you say about sulfur like eggs/garlic/ onions etc...
Hi Gooner, I think its partly related to metals, alongside nutritional deficiencies/poor diet, antibiotics, vaccines, poor quality water, stress etc
Getting it under control depends on so many factors....what stage you are at, the level of toxic load and metals you have, how mineral depleted you are, stress levels, how compromised your thyroid and adrenals are..... if you're not suffering from so many deficiencies, it makes it a lot easier to bring balance back to the body. The thing with metals is that they can seriously impair cell and gland function and absorption and utilisation of nutrients and hormones so it can all become a vicious circle. I think genetics are involved too...some people just dont handle metals as well as others.
I know some people have been able get candida under control without getting their fillings out or chelating but there are also people and autistic kids who get there ONLY after several rounds of chelation...plus nutritional therapy. Depends what else you are doing to boost your immune system. Candidiasis is a chronic Th2 condition. You need to boost the Th1 side.
I know I'm a poor mercury excretor so I need to chelate. I feel improvements when I chelate but its too early to say how significant a part it will play in resolving my health problems, but I feel it will. I noticed when I upped my dose of hydrocortisone (adrenal hormones) and thyroid hormones a while back, I could feel my body temperature rise and the candida being forced out. Thyroid hormones shift the immune system from Th2 to Th1 which helps fight candida.
If you can reduce metals (and other toxins) as much as is practically possible its only going to help your immune system work better for you, as long as you do it safely. Metals arent just associated with candida but many other illnesses so its wise to consider removing them for that reason too. I know its not always possible though...eg the cost and I'm not saying you can't achieve some level of wellness unless you remove your fillings or chelate.
You have to weigh things up and decide whether its part of the picture for you but really I wouldnt bother speculating that much, just decide on a particular path and if it doesnt give you the results you want then consider other options.
Do you think you have a metal problem? Are you sulphur sensitive? This is common amongst mercury toxic people, it relates to cysteine levels. Molybdenum and sulphate ( Epsom Salt baths) can help.
i have suffered from pretty crippling depression and ocd most of my life aand then last year i started to get serious photosenistivity in my face, i havent been out now in ahout a year during daylight hrs as my skin on my face reacts so much...
so i am in a difficult situation as to being able to keep on seeing someone now that it is summer it makes it worse...
anyway naturopath i was seeing said i had candida as i have been getting white wazy stuff of my skin as well as folliculits on my face which isnt great...
i saw a homeopath and a kinesiolgist who said that i didnt have metal problems....
but then i spoke to a nutritionist who works with serious ill ppl and she says that nearly everyone who comes to see her in the last 15 years has had metal problems...
i spoke to a girl on here about a month ago and she was telling me her journey and how after 4 years and £200k later she went to see this woman and how she was told by every kinesiogist and every blood test that she was not having metal problems...
this woman found metals everywhere in her and starting detoxing her and this girl then went for another blood test and her body was flooded with them, the nutritionist uses electro acupuncture machine to diagnose...i was supposed to go see this woman but havent been able to cause of the intensisty of the sun at the moment and it disresses me when i burn my face and the pain consequences of that isnt worth it...but this girl also was telling me how she had been to see an oncologist before she saw this woman who told her she was infertile of course now she isn't ... so the metals were causing her body all sorts of problems
this woman follows the dr patricia kane protocol and uses supplemnets by energetix in the usa which is a practioner only....
anyway i started the patricia kane protocol and it drove me mad mentally i had to eat some grains on it cause the sugar cravings were horrendous...
they like to get the channels open and the body flooded with minerals, but anyway the nutritionist can even tell when the illness started uncanny things were said to this girl about loads of things ..she was perplexed by it all...
Pyroluria is diagnosed through a kryptopyrrole urine test and if positive you need more zinc and B6.
But it may well all be metal related....if you have porphyria then a porphyrin test should reveal this too... and a fractionated urine porphyrin test is actually a test for metal toxicity. A more specialised one for mercury toxicity is the precoproporphyrin test but if you have the general test and its positive this suggests other metal toxicity like arsenic, lead or drugs such as morphine. I'm sure you can get a general porphyrin test done at Biolab in London.
Andy Cutler talks about these tests in Amalgam Illness (www.noamalgam.com). I follow his mercury chelation protocol, you can take things really slow. The Kane protocol sounded too strong for you. Another way of testing for metals is hair analysis then applying Cutlers 'counting rules'. Thats what I did..
i had my porphria tested by the derm it came back ok according to them...
as for the pyroluria i had this tested last year back in the range for mild pyroluria, higher than when i had it tested years ago...
they say that pyroluria is genetic so how come it goes up and down, to me it seems that i am not absorbing zinc and b6 ....
when i had it tested it said the range up to 0.08 mine read 0.16 but a few years ago when i had it tested i read 0.09 so this genetic think is something i dont understand ...
also i have heard the ocd can be linked to metals and also that it messes up zinc as well which could all relate back to the pyrolluria...
interesting that when i got the results last year my skin started burning but also i was ooming of anti depressanta
i would like to go out in a hat boronia hats do nothing when you are photo/uv sensitive the dark flat is the best i can do...
I don't know the causes of pyroluria, but I've searched a great deal about it. No way it is genetics. Schizophrenics, autistics and other diseases have it to varying degrees. In these specifics diseases, they also see in the urine peptides that can only come from casein and gluten and these shouldn't be there. Yeah right, it's all a coincidence and all this is genetic.
My guess is that heavy metals are involved somewhere. I've heard that these kryptopyrroles happen during the synthesis of blood. Maybe intestinal toxins (from candida and the like) at work... Zinc and magnesium deficiencies... Zinc is pretty special, your body can store it in the bones, but will only be able to use it if it also leeches calcium from the bones... And in relation to zinc, there is copper. High copper, often unavailable, due to low thyroid and a slow liver.
Copper is needed for the synthesis of blood.
Another idea of mine is that pyroluria is the result of too much oxidative stress. This can come from too much copper, heavy metals and pollution in general, candida toxins, etc...
EM is very rich in antioxidants. Kefir too has some antioxidant activity.
ower i tend to agree ..how can they say it is genetic if it was genetic all my readings that i have had would be the same...
i think that in my head that it is caused by the factors that you mentioned, yes it does cause or is cuased by zinc and b6 deficiency but even when i took these nothing happened it all comes back to the fact rather than constantly supplementing finding out what is causing my body to not utilise the minerals i give it.....
virus's/ metails etc
Hi Gooner, I think its partly related to metals, alongside nutritional deficiencies/poor diet, antibiotics, vaccines, poor quality water, stress etc
Getting it under control depends on so many factors....what stage you are at, the level of toxic load and metals you have, how mineral depleted you are, stress levels, how compromised your thyroid and adrenals are..... if you're not suffering from so many deficiencies, it makes it a lot easier to bring balance back to the body. The thing with metals is that they can seriously impair cell and gland function and absorption and utilisation of nutrients and hormones so it can all become a vicious circle. I think genetics are involved too...some people just dont handle metals as well as others.
I know some people have been able get candida under control without getting their fillings out or chelating but there are also people and autistic kids who get there ONLY after several rounds of chelation...plus nutritional therapy. Depends what else you are doing to boost your immune system. Candidiasis is a chronic Th2 condition. You need to boost the Th1 side.
I know I'm a poor mercury excretor so I need to chelate. I feel improvements when I chelate but its too early to say how significant a part it will play in resolving my health problems, but I feel it will. I noticed when I upped my dose of hydrocortisone (adrenal hormones) and thyroid hormones a while back, I could feel my body temperature rise and the candida being forced out. Thyroid hormones shift the immune system from Th2 to Th1 which helps fight candida.
If you can reduce metals (and other toxins) as much as is practically possible its only going to help your immune system work better for you, as long as you do it safely. Metals arent just associated with candida but many other illnesses so its wise to consider removing them for that reason too. I know its not always possible though...eg the cost and I'm not saying you can't achieve some level of wellness unless you remove your fillings or chelate.
You have to weigh things up and decide whether its part of the picture for you but really I wouldnt bother speculating that much, just decide on a particular path and if it doesnt give you the results you want then consider other options.
Do you think you have a metal problem? Are you sulphur sensitive? This is common amongst mercury toxic people, it relates to cysteine levels. Molybdenum and sulphate ( Epsom Salt baths) can help.
A possibiliy is the added bacteria have caused stress to the parasite {yeast} and it naturally turns up it's mycotoxin production to control competitors. I have seen this happen in cultures. Shroom
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