Why? Because it turns out that I have an enlarged spleen, and some other things going on; possibly the epstein barr syndrome. One thing at a time. And still, other evidence out there suggests that the flush creates some of the stones. Just research and see.
I plan to do it in July as soon as I finish softening and shrinking the stones with my chineese herbs. My stone was 2.8 cm.
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I believe that the flush can remove small stones and sludge. However I agree with you that the huge stones that people have gotten out, can not possibly have been removed by the flush. They had to come from the process itself or the pancrease or intestines.
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I know enouhg about physics that no bile duct could possibly stretct far enough to get a 2 cm stone out of it. It would defy the laws of science.
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However, once the stones are crushed by herbs, it is easy to see that they could be removed by the flush. This makes total sense.
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It is a good process and will work for some people I am sure. I just plan t wait to start flushing when I have turned the 2.8 cm stone into a bunch of small ones and sludge. I will keep up with my progress through ultrasounds and other tests. When it is time I will do it.
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Too msny have succeded for it not to have validity.
farscape66,
you are most likely wasting valuable time, by waiting to flush ...
What if your stones are growing bigger?
Start flushing, it will help to much faster dissolve stones - and it will prepare bile ducts for the larger stones - after every flush ducts become larger and large ... allowing larger and larger stones to come out.
Most people have over 100 small and medium size stones inside liver ... and passing those stones takes time and bile ducts have to be prepared.
If you read at least 20 stories where people passed larger stones (1.5 cm and bigger - up to 5 cm), you will see one main rule:
No one older then 22 passed the largest stones on their first flush. (only young people pass large stones immediately)
It took from 3 to 20 flushes to pass largest stones ... and do you know why?
Because it takes time for bile ducts to stretch up to the needed size to allow largest stones to exit.
I passed my largest stones on my 12th flush ... stones were over 2cm across (smalest diameter), and I never had Gallstones ... stones were from my liver.
It also takes time for bile ducts to become as flexible and as healthy to allow stretching.
You wrote:
> "I know enouhg about physics that no bile duct could possibly stretct far enough to get a 2 cm stone out of it. It would defy the laws of science."
What Laws? Give me one single law?
Have you ever seen people who put piece of wood inside their lower lip or their ears ... streatching it 30 - 40 times the normal size?
How is that possible that balooned colon (megacolon) can be 10 times the size of the normal colon? "It would defy the laws of science." What laws?
How is that possible that one man eats 10 kg of food within 45 min? How big is his stomach? What laws apply for him?
Tissues inside human body stretch after need ... if you give it enough time and proper nutrients ... and oportunity.
Some overweight people may be 10 times the size they were 20 years ago ... again ... their skin and their intestines and their all tissues streatched after need.
Well, laws of Science are not as defined and as stiff ...
Read this story:
http://curezone.com/forums/m.asp?f=228&i=793
Excerpt:
"I recently went for an Ultrasound to see how its going and was told I have 3 stones in the duct, the largest being 7 mm. Also the common duct is dialated from a previous 5.5 mm to 9 mm at the pancreatic head."
Why do you think her common duct is dialated from a previous 5.5 mm to 9 mm ?
Because that was the size it went back to after allowing "the-largest-stones-so-far" to pass ... most likely stone larger then 9 mm.
If your bile ducts allow stone that is 1.5 cm to pass ... it will most likely go back to some smaller size - 1cm size for example ...
and then later ... it may allow 2cm stone to pass ... but after that ... just few days later it may go back to 1.5cm size ... that is simple science of all tissues inside human body.
To come back from 1.5cm size to normal ... it may take years ... or it may never happen ...
It is known that it takes a long time for intestines to come to normal ....
Science of yours is not my science ... every human is unique ... no one can define what is normal for you ... because you are one and only ... unrepeatable ... unique!
His laws or her laws are not your laws!
Each one of us have the set of "LAWS" that are UNIQUE ... and do not doubt that there are people who actually passed stones as big as golf ball or bigger!
Perhaps it can go through. The question I have is if it's calcified as mine is, how much scratching and internal bleeding will it cause in the meantime.
I passed a smaller calcified stone in september and had bleeding for a week from the bowels.
So would'nt it be a lot safer to get the stone down to size before I cimpletly destroy my insides with a flish?
The bleeding turned the bowels into a dark black tar like substance. I did a home test for stool to discover it. When the stone finally passed normal bowell movement returned and it stopped. Still not sure how much damage it did. Finally got a referral to a GI for this week.
You passed that stone on it's own, or was that in connection to liver flush?
Did you feel any pain when passing it ... or before ?
Have you ever had Gallstones attack? How many times?
It sounds as you have had some severe cut of the upper GI tract ... could be bile ducts or small intestine ... be careful with any examination ... especially if your doc want to examine your GI tract ... colonoscopy or ERCP .... those procedures can again cause injury and bleeding.
How do you feel now? Any symptoms? What do you eat? How old are you? Do you eat sugar? Don't!
OK, now I know more about you ... just read 10 - 15 messages you posted here, including this one ...
http://curezone.com/forums/m.asp?f=228&i=615
So, you sure know you have 3 options:
- Surgery (risky as always ... even more for you)
- flush (risky for you)
- waiting to dissolve it ( risky and I doubt you will succeede with this one ... you may be able to dissolve 1 - 5 mm, but not more)
Flush ... it may take more then 10 flushes to get that stone out ... even more then 20 ... or 30 ... but I think that would bee my choice ... hard to know.
Yes, stone may get stuck, may cause propblems, may cause pain, may cause pancreatitis, ... you may need a surgery or ERCP 3 days after the flush ... but it is all big may ... you may also get hit by a meteor before you attempt your firts flush ... you don't know know until you try ... but it sure can be scary ... and there is no doubt that flush is more risky for you then for 99.9% of all the other people I have ben in contact with.
And then, there is also a problem with dissolving the stone!
We always imagine that stone would dissolve equally on all sides ... creating "perfect" rounded object. What if that doesn't happen?
What if stone dissolve just on some parts, creating an extremely unregular object that will never be able to pass through bile ducts?
If you imagine the stone shaped like an marble, it is understandable that bile could push that stone out. But, if the stone is not rounded, if it is with "horns", bile would never be able to push it out.
In order to push some object through the elastic "rubber tube", that object must close tight that tube (or must be smaller), so that pressure can buit up and push the object further.
But, build-up of pressure is only possible if that object is rounded, and is closing tightly bile ducts. If the object is not rounded, if it is irregular ... there is no pressure ... and no way it can be moved through bile ducts.
Bile would be simply passing beside the object ... never enough pressure to move it ...
There are many possible problems ... you just have to know your options, make your choices ... and try the best you can ... and if it doesn't work ... and you are still symptomatic ... surgery is always there ... ready to catch all those who can't succeed with alternatives.
But, be aware that you are very special ... you are one out of 500 or 1000 people who must have different experience!
I would suggest Bert Hellinger therpy! It is important for people like you! It may not solve your Gallstones problem ... but it may give you important answers ... what to do? Why? How?
I did not realize when I started this disolving endeavor that the stone would not dissolve and remain round and just get smaller and smaller. How stupid of me. I have a degree in computer Science and math I should know better.
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I actually felt better when I was doing nothing. After about 4 months of dissolving with the chineese herbs and chanca piedra and hydrangea root and apple juice, I started having discomfort and pain in the GB area.
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I had no little pain before.
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I believe it is disolving and small little calcified pieces are breaking loose, and causing the twinges of pain.
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None have got stuck or caused bleeding agaiin, but they are uncomfortable.
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After about a month of this pain and intensified disolving efforts the chineese bitters seem to be releiving things some.
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But I believe you are right I thought the disolving to be safe than flushing, but in my case I would have probably been better off to start flushing earlier.
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The disolving has only created a prickly calcified irregular object.
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It will be very interesting to see what the ultrasound in early July shows this thing looking like now.
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There may be no hope, I may have to have surgery at the end of July.
I forgot to tell you one thing:
It sometimes takes a single flush to get the stone out ... especialy for men.
I would have taken that chance, before considering any surgery or any other medical procedure!
Also, many people who encountered severe pain when spontaneously passing Gallstones (what actually happened in your case), they have had no pain at all when passing far larger stones while doing a flush. Epsom Salt and olive oil can do miracles!
Farscape, have you heard of the three day apple fast to soften stones? Then 1/2 C olive oil on morning of 4th day with lemon or something to cut the oily taste?
You said >>Yes been drinking organic apple juice for months now. This thing is so big it will take a lot of softening. Also been doing Julia changs herbs.<<
Drinking organic apple juice may not be the same as raw apples. And raw apples only.. nothing else.... unless it might be raw apple juice. It is a Raw Apple Fast. The raw apples softens the stones. Then on the morning of the fourth day 1/2 C olive oil will help you expel them. They will be soft and a beautiful color of green.
Keep us posted how you're doing.
Thats why I recommend taking a product called syclovir for my prep to the flush instead of the herbs that Dr. Clark recommends. It does the same as the herbs as well as a host of other things.
You can read up on how it will help your epsen bar at www.worldhealthmall.com. If anything it will be very informative and you can do the flush as well.
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I'm really glad that I waited and did not start the flush. 
