Yes, many people were skeptical, and decided to analyze their stones.
But, unfortunately, not every lab has the equipment to prove that stones are composed of cholesterol, bile, pigment ...
Analysis can only give composition of the stone, it can not prove that a stone came from liver of from gallbladder.
Most stones collected after liver flush are formed from bile.
Bile is composed of: cholesterol, bile, pigment, bilirubin, biliverdin, protein , calcium.
Analysis can only prove what stones are composed of.
There is a possibility that stones are formed from bile, but formed inside intestines, not only inside billiary bile ducts.
If results of analysis are: cholesterol, bile, pigment, bilirubin, biliverdin, protein , calcium, then there is no doubt that analyzed stone is indeed made from bile ... but we still don't know where the bile precipitated into stones.
When bile precipitates into stones inside gallbladder or inside bile ducts ... these are then called Gallstones or intrahepatic stones.
When bile precipitates into stones inside intestines ... it may be called feces.
This simple experiment can be used to find out if your stones are formed inside intestines or inside billiary tree:
Question:
Is it true that stones ( liver stones or gallstones) people get when doing liver cleanse are actually small balls of soap formed inside bowel over night?
Some doctors claim that stones are olive oil soap!
Answer:
Soap Chemistry
==============
Soap is a salt of fatty acid.
How Soaps Are Made ?
=================
The chemical reaction that produces soap is called saponification. It occurs when a hot caustic alkali solution, such as caustic soda (sodium hydroxide = natrium hydroxide = NaOH), acts on natural fats or oils to produce a smooth, semisolid, fatty acid salt (soap) and glycerin, or glycerol.
The boiling process.
===============
Soap can easily be made at home by boiling water with animal fat or vegetable oils and wood ash. As the water boils, the fat molecules are broken down into fatty acids. Saponification occurs when these fatty acids react with potassium carbonate from the ash to form soap.
Main difference between soap and cholesterol stones!
====================================================
IMPORTANT !!!
If stones were soap, you could easily dissolve them in water.
Soap made of olive oil is liquid, not hard like cholesterol stones!
It takes days on open air, before olive oil soap hardens, suppose that there is no extra water around!
Olive oil Soaps are liquid and are water soluble (even in cold water)!
If stones were soap, they would be dissolved in water inside human body, inside intestines, they would not come out as a solid, green stones surrounded with liquid.
Cholesterol Stones - product of liver cleansing - are solid, waxy and are not soluble in water.
Cholesterol Stones can melt in hot water, but are still not soluble in hot water.
Other inconsistencies:
Amount of caustic alkali ingredients in bile is not enough to produce thousands of stones.
Temperature inside human body is too low, to produce olive oil soap.
====================================================
Read carefully those differences, before you next time assume that Cholesterol Stones - product of liver cleansing - are actually made of olive oil soap - soap created inside intestines, over night, as some docs are trying (hard) to make you believe.
====================================================
WARNING: Always add your solid form lye, sodium hydroxide or potassium hydroxide, to the liquid. If the liquid were added to the solid form lye a violent reaction could result. This means you could have a "volcano" erupt out of your container.
Always wear protective goggles, gloves and other safety clothing when handling sodium hydroxide or potassium hydroxide. Refer to the appropriate MSDS for complete details.
Basic Soapmaking Instructions
While wearing safety goggles and neoprene gloves, combine solid lye and liquid, stir well. Set aside and allow to cool (100° F to 125° F). This is best done outside while you are standing upwind.
Combine oils and heat gently. Once the fats and oils are melted allow the temperature to drop to 100° F to 125° F.
Combine lye solution and melted oils. Be careful not to splash while combining the mixtures. Stir until the mixture traces. If tracing takes more than 15 minutes, which it often does, stir for the first 15 minutes, then stir for 5 minutes at 15 minute intervals. Tracing looks like a slightly thickened custard, not instant pudding but a cooked custard. It will support a drop, or your stir marks for several seconds. Once tracing occurs...
Pour raw soap into your prepared molds. After a few days the soap can be turned out of the mold. If the soap is very soft, allow it to cure for a few days to firm the outside.
Cut soap into bars and set the bars out to cure and dry. This will allow the bar to firm and finish saponification. Place the bars on something that will allow them to breathe.
================================
http://wwwchem.csustan.edu/chem1002/soap.htm
The Synthesis and Properties of Soaps
Soap History
http://search.ebi.eb.com/ebi/article/0,6101,37306,00.html
The ancient Romans made soap from animal fat and wood ashes, but these early soaps were apparently used only for medical purposes. Not until the 2nd century AD were soaps recognized as cleaning agents. The transformation of soapmaking from a handicraft to an industry was aided by Nicolas LeBlanc's discovery in about 1790 of a process for manufacturing soda ash from brine (a form of salt).
During World War II, efforts were made to develop synthetic cleaning agents, or detergents. Detergents became increasingly popular substitutes for soap for almost all applications except bathing. Half of these detergents were ABS-based, and by the late 1950s their heavy use had caused foam to collect in many major rivers, lakes, and oceans across the world.
Such pollution had not been a problem with soaps because some types of bacteria can digest and break down soap molecules. The synthetic detergent molecules, however, were too complex for bacteria to break down. The problem was solved by simplifying the structure of the hydrocarbon portion of ABS. In the latter half of the 20th century, other components of detergents, such as phosphates, were found to cause a different form of water pollution. Today increasing efforts are being made to find harmless biodegradable substitutes for harmful detergent ingredients. (See also Pollution, Environmental.)
Questions:
How to count stones ?
Why should I try to keep my stones ?
You can use white, plastic colander that fits and put it into toilet bowl.
Holes shoild not be bigger then 2 mm, or small stones (that are very
common) will go straight through.
Then, after empting intestines, when you see something inside colander (stones), you wash them with water.
Then you put them on the white paper, to dry them.
Then you can count them, take a photo, cut them, weight them, examine them with rubber glowes, knife, microscope, water, nose, vinegar, oils, ...
You can try to find what can dissolve them, for example.
If you have any knowledge of chemistry, try to use it.
To preserve them for longer then 1 day, you can freez them or put thme in formaldehyde or vinegar.
If you don't, it may happen they get "attacked" by intestinal bacteria, and converted into fatty cholesterol acids.
Some stones are so solid that they don't need to be preserved.
Unles you wear a special mask, you will for sure notice the smell, (very different then feces).
You will see that they are not soap, or feces.
Soap or feces is water soluable, liver and GB stones are not.
Soap smell different. Feces smell different. Oil smell different.
Soap and feces are heavier then water, most stones float, even after many months in water.
Why should you try to keep your stones?
As there is almost nothing in modern Science to be found about those stones and flushing, we, everybody here, including you, are just collecting facts and experiences to bridge that scientific gap.
You and I have chance to contribute to modern science as much as anyone else.
It is very important to take a photo and/or to keep those stones.
After one year you may forget how big stones you passed 12 months gao, and how many?
After few months you may get a chance or money to anlyze them and know what they are made from?
After few years you may want to show it to your kids, grandchildren,
relatives, friends, doctor, ...
How many of you asked question: What are the facts and science about flush and stones?
Why don't may doctor recomends it ?
Why ther is almost nothing in literature about stones, liver and link to allergies, shoulder pain, ashtma, colitis, cancer ... ?
If you want your children to avoid asking that questin, then you, and we all should do something to collect as many fats as we can.
Photo is the most simple proof of succesful flush.
Your story as also a great contribution to science.
IMPORTANT!!!!!
Few things to remember when posting your story! Do not forget to write:
- Your age and gender (gender, because names like Danielle, Denis, Robin, Dax, P.T., J.K. ... can be nick names, or real names both male and female.
This group is international, and not everyone knows that Danielle is
a male name. )
- your health and symptoms with as many details as you can remember.
- number of stones you got, size, colour, (even smell), and take a photo, (does not have to be digital !!!)
- if this is your 3rd or 6th or 12th flush, say that. Say also if and how do you feel, after so many flushes, ...
- how many people you personally know who did this cleanse
- how many members of your familly should do this cleanse ....
- a new members are signing to this group every day, do not be affraid to repeat all this info after every cleanse you do.
Help yourself, and help others. Bring facts to the surface.
If you don't do your best to bring the facts, tomorrow, you will be
watching you grandchildren suffer from allergies, asthma, ear pain, ... harmfull medications, and you will not be able to change that, becuse your son-in-law (or daughter-in-law or ...) is a doctor or sceptic and/or he/she does not believe in what you say, because that is just a "quackery".
> Question:
> Have anyone had their stones analyzed?
>
>
>
> Answer:
There is a story reported in The Lancet, medical journal.
"Apple Juice and the Chemical-Contact Softening of Gallstones," Dekkers R, Lancet, December 18/25, 1999;354:2171. #34484.
Lancet December 18/25, 1999 354:2171
Gallbladder Surgery Alternative
The Lancet reported the use of one quart of pure apple juice for one week. After one full week of the apple juice one cup of olive oil was used just before going to bed. The person was instructed to lay on their left side during the night.
This is an anecdotal case report of a female who, for 1 week, consumed 1 liter of apple juice daily and, on the seventh day, 1 cup of olive oil before going to bed, resulting in documented fatty stones found in her stools.
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 19:57:58 EDT
Subject: Re: [gallstones] Laboratory test result
To: gallstones@yahoogroups.com
From: JayTownsend@aol.com
Hi:
This is from http://www.curezone.com/cleanse/liver/Are_You_Stoned.asp
and is a quote from Dr. Lewis who wrote: ""Are you 'Stoned'?" by chiropractor
Claude M. Lewis, Edith Hiett and Leon Hiett.
To quote from Dr Lewis:
"To clarify the situation and eliminate such questions, I sent a sample of
gall stones to a medical analysis lab run by a Ph.D. who heads up the Science
Department at Texas Woman's University in Denton. He ran the necessary tests…
His analysis of the stone sample I sent was 91% cholesterol and the rest was
bile salts, water and inert ingredients. In other words, the sample had the
chemical contents of gall stones. And the report clearly states it was gall
stones".
My opinion of chiropractors is not nearly as high as it once was, but that
doesn't detract from the lab analysis that Dr. Lewis had done. 91%
cholesterol means that they will float quite nicely. From all of the
postings and all the sites out there that have pictures, it seems obvious to
me that the flushes are producing/expelling gallstones.
By the way, that site has a flush also. Probably a little more difficult
than the Epsom Salt routine, but one that I'll try on my next flush.
National University of Singapore, Lower Kent Ridge Road, Singapore 0511.
Koh reports here a case of spontaneous passage of multiple cholesterol gall-stones after self-treatment with olive oil and lemon juice.
It is estimated that Gallstones are present in approximately 15% of adult females and 6% of adult males, and its prevalence increases with age. Although it is generally agreed that there is a need for surgical treatment, in patients with cholelithiasis who develop complications, the treatment of 'silent stones' is controversial.
At present, the application of drug treatment of cholelithiasis is relatively expensive and limited, usually for those unfit for surgery, with small radiolucent stones, and without history of complications.
Other methods of treatment of gall stones have also been described. Kurtz and Classen have reported that treatment for common bile duct stones may include endoscopic removal and lithotripsy, and gallstone dissolution by irrigation procedures.
CASE REPORT
The patient, a 32-year old Indian male, insurance salesman, had a 3-year history of epigastric pain and colicky right hypochondrial pain whenever he took fatty meals. Physical examination was unremarkable and a barium meal study showed no evidence of gastro-oesophageal reflux or hiatus hernia, and no evidence of gastric or duodenal ulcer. However, the plain abdominal X-ray revealed multiple radio-opaque gallstones.
The patient was advised surgery for cholelithiasis, but was not enthusiastic about the idea. He returned the following day with news that he had attempted a self-cure for the gallstones using olive oil and lemon juice. According to him, after fasting from noon, he took one pint of olive oil and lemon juice at 7 p.m. He then went to sleep on his right side. At about 2 - 3 a.m., the following morning, he felt a churning sensation in the abdomen. At 5 a.m. he passed out oily stools which he collected in a strainer. Upon washing the stools, he found numerous smooth stones.
Analysis of two of the stones showed them to be greenish, smooth and soft, measuring 15 x 12 x 5 mm and 10 x 6 x 3 mm, respectively.
_________________________________________________________
The stones were found to consist entirely of cholesterol.
_________________________________________________________
TREATMENT
P.Airola in his book How to Get Well has described an 'oil cure' for removal of gallstones, using raw natural unrefined vegetable oils of olive, sunflower or walnut, while Roberts has prescribed a specific dosage of 1 pint of olive oil and the juice of 8 to 9 lemons. The patient is required to take 4 tablespoonfuls of olive oil followed by 1 tablespoonful of lemon juice at 15-minute intervals. This is to be started in the evening after fasting from lunch time, and the gallstones are expected to be passed out within 24 to 48 hours.
This form of treatment has been largely promoted by non-physicians, but a doctor from Canada (Kotkas L.J.) has reported that 95% of cases he saw this treatment used on passed out gallstones.
This treatment is non-invasive, and numerous stones measuring up to 15 mm could be passed out. As the olive oil cure could perhaps prove to be a relatively inexpensive alternative to costly conventional drug treatments, it is suggested that controlled and supervised studies could be considered to explore the safety and efficacy of this mode of treatment for gallstones.
I just did my first liver cleanse using the ' Hulda Clark ' recipe. I got about 50 'stones' - all green, all fairly soft, the largest about the size of a big pea and about the same texture. I attempted to preserve them in water, but they began to dissolve/break up. I then tried to keep them in a cardboard box at room temperature, but they began to 'melt' (lose their shape and form a greasy patch in the box as if they were made of fat).
Why these stones partly soluble in water and why do they 'melt' at room temperature? Cholesterol melts at 146 degrees C (see http://www.beloit.edu/~chem/Chem230/labs/lab4.doc) so what are these 'stones' made of ? And if they melt at room temperature why don't they just melt in your liver which is at 37 degrees C ? Can someone explain? Are they just fat globules with bile making them partly soluble?
I have also found a lot of obtuse doctors, and labs. I once sent my stones to a large lab here in Rio de Janeiro, and it came back "fecal matter". I called and made a fuss... did you actually charge me to tell me this? Are you kidding? You didn't even bother to analyze it?
Pathetic.
My dad, however, sent his to another lab, and got the usual results, bile, cholesterol crystals, etc.
There is no question the liver cleanse is fantastic, it works!
To: gallstones@yahoogroups.com
From: "ngwjuk" < ngwj@beeb.net >
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 22:53:10 -0000
Subject: [gallstones] Laboratory test result
Reply-To: gallstones@yahoogroups.com
Hi everyone, I haven't posted in a while, but some of you may
remember that I have a friend who is a hospital doctor who offered to
take a couple of the stones I got out by flushing, and get them
tested in his lab. He was half expecting them to refuse because I
wasn't a patient at the hospital, but no problem! They were quite
interested. The reason it has taken so long is because they are not
usually asked to analyse gallstones. Normally they get to see them
in gall-bladders that have been surgically removed when it is obvious
what they are. This meant that they had to order some special
chemicals.
However, I have now just had the results back and these confirm to no
great surprise on my part (I've always been a 'believer') but also to
my considerabe relief (I've also had that little nagging doubt) that
the samples I provided were definitely Gallstones - 100% certain!
To my surprise they contained no bilirubin, but they did contain lots
of cholesterol. They were very keen to stress that there was
absolutely no doubt about the analysis, it had been carried out very
carefully and thoroughly.
The work was done by a consultant bio-chemist at a National Health
Service (NHS) Bio-chemistry Laboratory in Scotland.
I feel pretty jubilant at this news - I hope it finally puts paid to
the theories floating around that what we get out is just soap or
gobs of olive oil. Of course it won't stop the malicious doubters
who will probably insist that I have made the whole thing up, or else
that I sneaked into a morgue and stole the stones from a corpse, or
some such nonsense. However, I can tell you all that right now I
feel great as I move onto a new regime of twice-a-year flushing for
the rest of my life!
I am a medical doctor and want to publish a multi-case study in a peer reviewed journal. Would you be willing to find out if this lab would participate. I would pay the charges. Would they give you a complete analysis? If so, may I have their contact information?
About a year ago, my daughter was in the hospital due to a stone having lodged and setting up infection in one of her bile ducts. The Dr wanted to operate, we told him of our plan to cleanse. A couple weeks later we took the grape-sized stones to the lab in the hospital and had them analyzed to prove to the Dr that it worked. The lab analyzed the stones, sent the results to the Dr and verified they were indeed gallstones. He was astonished! Will this help your report? I am willing to help any way that I can. If you would like me to get that analysis for you I will see if it is still in their records. As far as the type of analysis you are speaking of, I am clueless. Please let me know if I can help in any way.
God bless you,
Sharon - the mom
Ideally the report should give a chemical analysis of the stones. It is extremely difficult to find a lab that will do that. I believe that most pathologists have seen thousands of samples of liver and gallstones, and like many of us, can tell by gross visual inspection, feel, and odor. So they report "gallstones" based on gross examination. Since I made the public offer to pay for analyses, no one has taken me up on it, and no one has been able to refer me to a lab that does chemical analyses! We really need a large sample of participants. One alternative possibility is a well-known university pathology department. I am connected with one. But this will never be settled in the medical community until we publish the results of a large sample of participants, and it is a real shame that people have not risen to the occasion.
I am not willing to give up so easily. Can I help find a lab? What specific tests does the "right" lab need to be able to do? In the book "Cure for All Diseases", by Hulda Clark , there is a copy of a lab test of flush stones. I have a .jpg copy of it.
The test was done by "ACL" - Associated Regional & Univessity Pathologists, Inc, 500 Chipeta Way, SLC, Utah, dated 2002. Phone 800-877-7016.
If you want to correspond directly my email is blixone@yahoo.com.
Thank you for the lead. I called the number above and spoke to a pathologist. After looking into the issue, he replied:
"I have spoken to one of the medical directors as well as to a few of the technologists that perform the testing. The method that we use is Reflectance Fourier Transform Infrared Spectroscopy (FTIR)/Polarizing Microscopy. It allows us to identify the components of the stone and conclude that the components are or are not consistent with a gallstone. Those components include cholesterol, Bile salts and bile pigments. I am having the lab pull a sample FTIR spectroscopy and a sample report. If you have a fax number I can send them to you tomorrow."
The question is whether this is sufficient to resolve the issue. I would appreciate input from those of you who are technically inclined and want to participate. I would also like the reference to the Lancet paper that we will be refuting so that we can enlist their help in constructing an experimental design. They have a research department.
From: Peacock
Date: Tue May 14, 2002 2:13am
Subject: Re: Dr. Weill says the 'stones' are just oliveoil !
Regarding the comment that Dr. Weill says the stones are just olive oil, I disagree based on the following: About 10 months ago I did an oral Sea Salt enema on the advice of someone. There was no olive oil or any oil involved whatsoever. At the time I didn't even know about the olive oil liver cleanses. I did get out 2 or maybe 3 stones which at the time I didn't realize what they were. Soon after that I learned about liver cleanses and did one and realized that the 2 or 3 I had gotten out previously were in fact gallstones. I think Dr. Weill is wrong based on this experience. I'd agree that common sense would suggest that these stones we get out are just olive oil but common sense doesn't seem to prevail in this case.
=================
Subject: Re: Just completed 1st flush...what foods should I avoid ?
From: Gary
Date: Today 08:36 May 27 2002
In a previous post I was preparing for my first liver flush. Well, it is now the next morning and I'm still feeling a little rung out, and still making frequent trips to the bathroom. In fact, I just took my last dose of ES a little over an hr. ago. I have passed many stones of various sizes, as well as some other things that may have been some sort of parasites. Who knows? But I have a question for the experienced "flushers" out there: How long will I continue to pass stones (and other things)? Also, when I begin eatng solid foods again, what "stone causing" foods should I avoid in my diet? Will any type of physical activity prevent further stones from being flushed out? Any advice is appreciated.
Oh, I forgot to mention something that I have not read on this site or in any other liver flush instructions or comments. After my second dose of ES (8:00pm last night) I started passing stones of various sizes. I was under the impression that this wouldn't happen until the Olive Oil was taken. Is this common? Or is it possible that I have so many stones they were just waiting to come out? lol Just curious.
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Re: Lab documentation of stones (Lab report Altered!) 
I Found a Lab That Will Analyse the Stones!64 by cfsguy
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