Ahead of time, I apologize for the length of this question, but PLEASE help!!
I've been working on a piece of music for about 8 hours now and I need a break... but i realize that during my breaks, I seem to be thinking about an awkward situation I'm in, so I thought I'd ask you guys for advice, since the people on here have been so good to me (so far!).
I met a girl about a month ago in a very flirtatious situation, and she immediately asked me if I'd like to join her for drinks at a nearby bar. She shows up with a little present (!!) for me, though one more thoughtful than expensive (it was given to her for free, but I like thoughtful gifts). We were chatting at the bar and having a GREAT time, and suddenly she mentions her boyfriend! Well, I was a little confused, but continued since I has having a good time. She proceded to comment on how her relationship isn't going well, and it's a long distance one to boot. I figured this was a "window" (as we all know, not all women are faithful to their boyfriends). However, it didn't go anywhere, and not because I didn't try!
She continued to call me after that episode, and we went out and did things together that could have been classified dates to an onlooker, and she was always very flirtatious, even holding my hand at times! To add to the mystery, she would often mention she was proposing to her boyfriend that they see other people, then look directly at ME; she also mentioned that in any case, she's on the last straw with the guy and giving him a final chance to prove his worth. Now, I never buy that line, and you guys shouldn't either, but I will say that I know it's not going to work out between the two eventually for reasons that would take an additional essay to explain. You DON'T have to take my word for it, of course, but I'm usually quite aware of these things.
Anyhow, FINALLY I say on the phone one day, "you should drop everything else and date me!" You know what answer I got? She says "But I have a boyfriend!" in a very whiney voice. I let it all go and am still metting other women, so it's not like I'm obcessed, but I really like this girl...and not just because of the challenge!
I'm not sure what to do because there is chemistry between us, and it makes so much sense to hook up, but of course women are never logical. I continue to see her, when SHE calls, and she still acts the same way, suggestive of wanting me. She even brought up the subject, ambiguously and suggestively stating how friends make the best lovers, though I bitterly argued that that has never been the case for me, which it hasn't. Am I missing something? Most 'players' would suggest that all women want a man who is a challenge, and that this is what she seeks, thus BE one. But I think that I AM! I could sever communication with her even MORE, but what would that do?
Women, men, what does she want? And to the women who respond, do me a favor (please do not take offense to this): answer based on what you DO, and not by what you WANT! I know this sounds weird, but in my vast experience, women say they want one thing but they always DO something different (like WANTING a "nice" guy, but GOING FOR an "ass hole"). Don't hate me for saying this, but this is my objective observation.
Thanks SOOOOO much to anyone who can help, and thanks again to those who have helped me in the past. I will continue to do my sweeps of the forum to see if I have any insight into your issues.
Oh, and I always mention on here that I'm a composer, so here's something short that I did for a video game, for you guys.
I've read this situation on the forums before...she's using you as an emotional cushin, she's claiming to have one boyfriend and acting as she has an other one...YOU ARE BEING USED.
She's having a good time manipulating you, and she doesn't want that to change, because simply put, a boyfriend in jail just isn't fun or enough for a woman like her, she's gotta have something on the side for her personal feelings.
Now tell her to cut the crap or you're gone, because you're simply going nowhere, and you're not going to if you don't do anything about it.
And by the way, what you said about women is SO TRUE! I know a friend's girlfriend that is clingling to this guy like no tommorow, and she's kind of disappointed that he can't be the loving man she wants him to be but in the end she's really head over heels for him because he's 'the cool guy', and she just doesn't notice it...women end up changing their guys and then complain about it, go figure.
Oh yeah, I'm a BIG fan of videogames and that track sounded great...I still can't guess what kind of game is it, thought :)
Wow... I had thought about that. I was feeling for a while like I was the in-town-platonic-replacement-boyfriend. I was going to say something, but didn't for two reasons:
1.) I wasn't 100% possitive that was the case. There were reasons to be suspicious, but that's a HUGE accusation.
2.) The MOST IMPORTANT REASON: Saying something will do NOTHING but infuriate her and sever communications with her!
So, what do I do? Just cease and desist all contact?
By the way, I would LOVE TO HEAR MORE FEEDBACK, ESPECIALLY FROM A WOMAN'S POINT OF VIEW!!!!!!!!!!!
Don't tell her "you're using me, and I'm getting tired of it"
tell her "it's either jail boy or me", simple enough.
Don't worry about severing communications with her, she holds your frigging hand and says 'But I have a boyfriend!' That just rattles me, and makes me sick...the messages are clear, it only depends on what you follow, your head or your heart, and everyone can agree with me on wich is more important.
Any recommendations for a chicken on how to say 'pick me or him'? Or...*gulp* ..is the best way to just call her up and say.... "listen, babe, it's me or him. pick!" ????
AHHHHHHHHHH! What do I do???????????
Isn't there a better way of asking than something like that??
Are you a Fool? Why would you ''mess around or want to get hooked up with a girl whois wiling to use you.. play with your heart strings... who is most likely just as deceteful to her 'real boyfriend' etc. Bottome line, if she is willing to STRING ALONG her other boyfriend.. What makes you think she will not do it to you tomorrow.. in fact, it sure seems like she is already doing it today... DAAAA !... Do you have a need to continue to post on here NEXT WEEK complaining that 'I've been seeing this girl for 6 months but I think she is 'playing me' or 'is interested in someone else? Guy, This is about HER STUFF... You need to 'let her go' if YOU don't want to get F***ed over someday in the future. If you continue to 'pursue' , you will get burned. REMEMBER: Girls RUN AWAY until they CATCH YOU. She is playing this game and you are 'in pursuit', ready to give her al altermadum... DAAA!!!! I think your caught. (while all the while, she is running away).. Its the OLDEST GAME in the books.. and you bought it !!!
Okay... but all you did was yell at me... and you gave no clear advice. You're probably right, but I think everyone is in agreement!! Rip it off like a week-old bandaid!! Right? I mean, what do you suggest I do? Stop talking to her? I never call her, ya know...? So, stop answering when she calls?
She's screwing you over, and you wanna let her off nicely? I'd chew her up and spit her out.
Stop talking to her is one solution, telling her you don't want to be a part of the relationship anymore is an other. Look, she already knows your interested, there's absolutely no reason to tell her to pick you or him, just do it.
Seriously, what is she going to say when you say that phrase? "Oh my god you're the meanest guy ever! I'm never talking to you again!"? I doubt it, and even if she does, take it, because she's not worth your trouble.
Thanks. I needed a good thrashing! I'll just stop seeing/talking to her, and if she continues to call and pester me, I'll just say the "me or him" line. Done deal.
I can't believe I dwelled on this for so long... it was a miracle I found this forum and had the guts to write about this issue! I feel so much better, I can't even begin explain... Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh, and that video game--it was a futuristic setting rpg by Rainbow Studios (ATV Offroad Fury, Splashdown, Star Wars Pod Racer Revenge)... but it never got the green light by THQ. If it ever does, I'll be famous!
Whats wrong with being HONEST. YOur first problem will be to 'set a boundary'. That boundary needs to be communicated in many many ways. The MESSAGE IS: "don't Play with me or my emotions". I'm sure there will be MANY opportunities to ENFORCE that boundary (when she 'wants to 'get close', puts her hands on you (anywhere), talks in 'cuttsie little girl' language, wants to 'go out for drinks', wants to 'be playful', etc. etc. etc. Bottom line, if YOU continue to allow FIRST, Yourself to 'go along' with the game; and SECOND allow HER to continue to 'play the game WITH YOU.. THEN YOU WILL LOSE.
You many want to start off the conversation with: "What do you want from me"... (give her time to say whatever).. then you BE HONEST.. saying: "Well, on the one hand you SAY you want to be friends, then you drop Seductive hints or enundos about YOU AND ME.. Thats not nice. I don't like to be lead on or played with.. Please Stop. We are Friends...and Friends don't seduce friends. From that point on, whenever you feel or think or see her 'playing with you'.. Just look at her and say: "what are you doing RIGHT NOW?.. She will bull *%#&¤?§* you.. but you already know your own truth.. IT SURE FEELS GAMEY.. hense, ask her to Please stop playing with you.. YOU MUST Call her on HER STUFF.. She ofcourse WILL DENY that that is her INTENT (Which is a LIE).. thats fine.. You saimply ask her to stop that (whatever is communicating something more then just a friendship).. She wont like it becuase you have caught her at her game.. thats fine. Bottom line, I think what you will find is that 'You're not fun to play with anymore will be her attitude and she will move on herself.. .. and most of her 'games will stop'. The is also the chance that she may 'take heed' and realise that you are a caring responsible person and just dont want to use or be used.. SHE MAY GROW UP..
Hi! Couldn't listen to your music, I am extremely non-literate on computers! Bummer. Nice thought.
I've been in your shoes, a guy did this to me. IMO she's stringing you along, maybe not on purpose. Probably she does have conflicting feelings about her boyfriend, and connecting w/you would just stem from that.
It's selfish/thoughtless though, from the woman's side, to know that a guy wants to date you when you're not available & to keep flirting with him. If I know a guy is interested, I am so very careful not to flirt. She's not caring much about your feelings.
You're giving her what she wants I think. Guy-company, the fun of romance, the fun of being chased & knowing he's interested, but no issues like learning how to be together day by day or having to be emotionally faithful. This girl doesn't recognize it maybe (hopefully) but she's not being emotionally faithful to her boyfriend. If she broke up with him, she'd do the same eventually with you -- people tend to follow their patterns. At least she probably wouldn't cheat outright, if that's enough for you.
If you keep spending time with her, your actions are telling her that what she's doing is OK with you. That you're putting yourself so lowdown on the foodchain that you'll settle for one tiny bit of her time with no commitments. That made me feel like a worm, when I let myself settle for that. I mean, aren't you worth an entire, fulfilling relationship with someone who's so into you that she chooses to be entirely with you? Her actions are saying you're not worth it (though I'm sure she doesn't intend that, she's just enjoying a bonus deal). If you go along with her, you're telling yourself you agree. (Sorry if this sounds blunt, maybe I'm wrong, you'll know if I'm right/wrong by whether this strikes a chord with your gut instinct!)
BTW, when I was in your situation it dragged on for a while. I looked at myself & realized that the conscious part of me was saying "Please I just want a date or to go to a movie with someone & have a relationship maybe" but 90% of me was unconsciously saying "I am SO not ready". Is why I settled for just 2% of a boyfriend instead of going for the real thing. This is just me, not saying it's you, but at that point in my life something was just scaring the @&#* out of me about commitment, and I never could get a date til I worked through that.
Another opinion -- in my experience, until I *fully* & entirely let go of my partial relationship like this & moved on, I never could get a real date. I was fully energetically committed to him because I'm naturally monogamous, even though he wasn't committed to me. Is 2% of her worth the emptiness of dateless Friday nights? (I'm being so darn harsh today, at least if this is on the dot I am -- Sorry if it bites at all.) Bye!
Hey! sorry to hear about your sitution, it doesn't sound fun at all.
Just to let you know, I wouldn't ever do that to a guy. I wouldn't want anyone to play those games with me, so I wouldn't with anyone else. And anyone who would, isn't worth your time...no matter how much you like her now.
There are girls out there who are relationship/committment minded...one guy at a time. If I met someone I really liked, and was dating someone else, I would have enough respect for BOTH men to break up with my boyfriend first before dating a new man. Anyone who doesn't have at least that much respect for her boyfriend, won't respect you either.
You can be nice and just tell her that you want a 100% relationship, and though you like her, she just isn't "the one". No harm in that...as a matter of fact, if it is true, then you are a nicer guy for telling her...you could eventually hurt her feelings if you don't. Who knows, she might actually break up with the man, and by then you'd be over it, and she'd be pretty upset, I imagine.
Best to just move on. Find someone with the same mindset as yourself.
This is what I think : women like sex, no-really we do! And we like flirting and touching and feeling sexy. This girl is getting that from you. She doesn't NEED to sleep with you to get her needs met that are not being met by her boyfriend. Great for her, crapy for you. She is sublimating her desires for sex and cheating with this flirtatious sh*t. She may even be asking you on some level, if you are willing to be the other man/ cheat with her. She is not ready to let go of her boyfriend but she wants you to want her so she can gets these needs met. Which needs: the need to feel sexy, wanted, and cared for, to name a few. And you are doing this marvelously, you have played right into her hands. Why should she leave her boyfriend when she can get everything she needs from the BOTH of you ;) (To tell the truth you kind-of deserve it though, you knew she had a boyfriend, and troubles in the relationship and tried to exploit it. You may be made for each other.) Some women are like monkeys, they never let go of one branch without a firm grip on another. Meaning she may be shaping you for his replacement, and if it doesn't work out with you then she has not lost her boyfriend in the process. (Not all women are like this, but some are)
Also, just like not all women would seduce another man to meet their needs when their boyfriend can't (rather than breaking it like off, like a grown-up), so too, not all women say they like nice men and go after mean ones. Women like that have poor father figures, low self-esteem, and poor relationship role models. A pity.
Hope you are doing well, you asked for blunt right?
"(To tell the truth you kind-of deserve it though, you knew she had a boyfriend, and troubles in the relationship and tried to exploit it. You may be made for each other.) "
This is true--well, aside from the latter comment. Perhaps I do deserve it. I think you have a point, as everyone else does, that I'm being used in this situation. And, sadly, I knew it all along but I just couldn't believe that that was REALLY what was going on. I was second guessing myself.
Don't worry, all. It's over. If she calls, she won't get much in the way of conversation from me (she always calls from a blocked number, but so do my parents and a few good friends, so I won't know which calls to avoid). I don't even feel like calling her in her game. It's pointless. I'm just going to drop it and cut her loose.
That sounds good, sorry about the latter comment. I think I was a little snippy because of this portion of the letter "She proceeded to comment on how her relationship isn't going well, and it's a long distance one to boot. I figured this was a "window" (as we all know, not all women are faithful to their boyfriends). However, it didn't go anywhere, and not because I didn't try!"
eek, it still *%#&¤?§* es me off to read it. I have read other posts of yours and tend to like you and you personality, so I was surprised to see that coming form you :) Is that how most men feel about relationships and women?
Also, don't feel bad about getting dragged in to her little game. Men like to be loved, wanted, and have sex too. And she was doing all the right things to make you feel like you could get this from her.
Do you think it's a fear of intimacy that draws you to want to date unavailable women? Or is it that someone else wants her so that makes you want her more? I don't mean to get too personal, I've just seen this b-4, and want to know why it happens.
First off, don't worry about the comment. I didn't take offense. You see, if a person said to me, "you are a horrible human being! shame on you!" that would be different. You see, this is not only how men think, but it is just the way things work.
HERE'S THE ADVICE FOR ALL OPEN MINDED PEOPLE:
Don't get mad at how the opposite gender acts; labelling any behavior in a negative light is ignorant, as well as being hypocritical. You see, men DO opperate on a sexual mindframe that would make women squirm, and make men feel ASHAMED should they finally realize that is how they are programmed. However, there is no shame in BEING WHO YOU ARE, AND HOW YOU WERE BORN!
Frankly, women opperate in a manner that makes men roll their eyes in an equal amount of disgust. Just remember, to us, your courtship behavior is no better nor worse than our "thinking about sex every 3 seconds" stereotype.
Yes, I viewed that as a "window" into a sexual encounter I could EXPLOIT. This is not how most men would despribe their behavior, but most men are not very introspective (nor are women, sorry!), nor are they trained in psych, soc., etc.
The problem is, people are so caught up in their idealistic view of the world that they don't take the time to realize that judging their peer's INSTINCTUAL behavior as "innapropriate" is unfounded and hypocritical. It would be as such for ME to repremand a man for his behavior as a 'player,' just as it would be for a woman to label a 'golddigger' (these are EXTREMELY radical sides of the spectrum, but I think my point is as well made).
Just as it is when I commented that women SAY they want a man of one itamized list of qualities, whereas they DO something completely different. This is not an insult. It is a fact, and it's not ME who invented this concept, nor was it a MAN!!! Be introspective. Understand WHO you are and LOVE IT!!! It's ok to go for the tough guy, just as it's ok to go against your instrincts and go for the nice guy when you feel it is reasonable!
On your questions:
'Do you think it's a fear of intimacy that draws you to want to date unavailable women? Or is it that someone else wants her so that makes you want her more? I don't mean to get too personal, I've just seen this b-4, and want to know why it happens.'
It is of course both, but the real question is 'in what ratios?' and 'why?' I have a fear of commitment like most men do. Very few men avoided this plague. I personally think it's just an instinct to avoid monogamy, thus spreading your seed...further. However, consciously, I don't mind monogamy, and it's not my choice to be this way. It is also that I have a fear of falling for the "wrong girl" while another out there is better. It's the "trade-up" policy of men. Watch the movie 'The Tao of Steve' for more info. Actually, WOMEN, MEN, WATCH THAT MOVIE IF IT IS THE LAST THING YOU EVER DO! YOU WILL THANK ME, I SWEAR TO GOD!
Also, I have residual effects of an era of rock-bottom self esteem in my life, so most of my girl friends have been girls that other people wanted, and were extremely jealous of me over. HOWEVER, when I met this girl, I did not know she had a boyfriend, nor did I know that anyone was interested in her, but I really really liked her all the same. Our chemistry starting out was better than any other girl I've met in a long long time, if ever. So, I think that disproves that theory.
If there is anything else, I'd love to hear it. I like picking my own behavior apart, and would like to get to the bottom of any issues that may still lurk in the shadows of my subconscious, if any do.
later all!
Aaron
p.s. any single girls in the Manhattan area? I'm availible! lol :)
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