Even in the support forum, anyone who says they're a Christian can post, so nobody even can say who decides what a Christian is.
So, should we leave it up to you to decide who is Christian enough to post. By what rights do you decide who is a Christian and who isn't - it is the position of a self-righteous, self-important fanatic. Who decides who is a Christian? If you believe yourself a Christian then you are one. You are a Christian; a bad one in your case, and intolerant one, a hateful one, a deceitful one, but still a Christian.
But there is no "my" Christianity or "your" Christianity, only God's Christianity.
Unfortunately God left rather vague instructions, which is why we have over 3000 major sects and another 8-14 thousand minor ones.
We expect to be shot at by unbelievers, but when "christians" [sic] stab you in the back for not being tolerant enough, that's not Christianity.
Wrong, it is the very essence of Christianity.To oppose those who preach hate, intolerance, that is to be a Christian.
I stuck my neck out repeatedly in defense of the gospel and countering false teachings, only to be repeatedly stabbed in the back by people who had decided that Christianity means never saying anything harsh or negative.
When cops turn a blind eye to the crimes of their fellow cops we are outraged. They are no longer being cops but are now criminals. When Christians stay silent and do not oppose intolerant, extremists views like yours they are not being Christian. It is the duty of all people to oppose the extremist, hate fueled ideas you sponsor.
So, #1211, get off your high horse and read the Bible.
What she really means is 'Read the Bible the way I read the Bible.'
Debate requires rules to be followed, but also for rules to be made properly and a universal agreement that there be a single objective. But the rulemakers haven't foreseen what is necessary for proper debate because it hasn't been recognized how much control would be necessary on this particular forum. The other forums don't have such a spiritual topic as this one and are GENERIC (non-partisan), but the purpose/objective of this forum is (or should be) to cause the destruction of the traditional/institutional teachings of Christianity (to be unecessarily polite about it, make them obsolete, Hebrews 8:13).
The rules were made assuming that all participants would:
1) have the motive of engaging in a productive conversation leading to logical conclusions and would show restraint using a minimum of emotion so as not to distract from the issue at hand (avoiding attitude).
2) understand the tendency of others to take personally any disagreement and therefore TAKE CARE not to express their rebuttal with emotionally charged words or hasty conclusions by simply commenting (reason) instead of criticizing and causing self-consciousness so the other person feels compelled to retaliate (taken offensively).
3) not alienate each other, but welcome each other's views and differences.
No matter what anybody's spiritual state (seeking the identity of the Creator or growing in the spirit), a dedication to and respect of TRUTH can only be pursued with intelligent conversation.
You, like the fanatic R2R think rationalism is anti-Christian.
I have not made any anti-Christian rants. In the first place I never rant, and secondly all my posts in the topic of Christianity have been against extremism, literalism, violence. anti-science, I have also addressed the errors in the bible, including genesis. and recently in the "four legged insects". Homophobia, intolerance, anti-Islam, ... well you know the list of your sins.
I repeat! Anybody that mixes and links Jesus with the pantheon gods are in my opinion a blasphemy of what is taught in the bible.
Your truth is not the Bible, there is some truth. It is not absolute truth and everything in there is not true. And I have full knowledge of the Bible. I don’t have to check any website to recognize the errors in the Bible. Unlike you and your anti-Islam websites.
I believe the parts of the Bible that are true, or speak of a morality which is true and applicable to our modern world and specifically my situation. I am not a fool, so I will not believe the parts that are patently false.
You do not follow the Bible as you claim. You are a fraud. You takes selected passages that agree with you and ignore the ones that you don’t like. The questions have been answered, but very badly and to not the satisfaction of any reasonable person. Only an fanatical adherent would accept the half truths and misinterpretations spouted by apologists as ‘answers.’ Like a child who believes in the Tooth Fairy asking “Is the Tooth Fairy Real?”, all you have to do is say “Yes” for the child to believe. You and people like you are like this child - readily accepting the answer you want rather than the truth..
When was the last time you KILLED a person who did not listen to a priest? Deuteronomy 17:12
Have you KILLED a homosexual? Leviticus 20:13
Do you know any adulterers? Have you KILLED them? Leviticus 20:10
Meet any Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs? Have you KILLED them? Exodus 22:19, Deuteronomy 13:7-12
Have you KILLED the son of a sinner? Isaiah 14:21
What about SLAVERY? Way too many to cite.
STONED a woman to death today for not being a virgin? Deuteronomy 22:20
I can go on with the long, long list of things you do not do because you do not agree with them. You are selective in your adherence to the Bible. Honest Christians have the ability to admit this to themselves. You, obviously do not.
PICK AND CHOOSE, PICK AND CHOOSE.
It is funny that you accuse me of something that you do, you constantly go around telling Christians that this or that is wrong and that your way is the right way.
BTW Who is cutting and pasting now? That crap argument about Animal Farm is cute, but it was written several thousand years after the passage in question. Go back to your apologist websites and find valid argument. The whole job is a dragondrop.
He reminds me of the person standing with his arms crossed and a sour expression on his face saying "I AM NOT ANGRY". I don't think he even realizes how much of a ranter he can be at times. I sure felt ranted at during he and I's little to do over my view of the history of the world.
It seems more like revenge (I'm not anxious to see the debate that is being spoken of, but it seems that some sleep has been lost over it (bad sportsmanship, doesn't play well).
Corinthian,
Just because you don't like the traditional teachings of the institutiional churches (believe me, I could do a much better job of picking out their faults than you can), that doesn't give you the right to disrespect us. I didn't want to point out the respect thing in my previous post because it's sad enough that you can't show respect (you don't really know the meaning of respect until you SHOW it) to others when you are not convinced that you yourself deserve to recieve it. Why do you feel that you don't deserve it?
There is a difference between the institutions and the people of Christianity. If you disrespect the institutions and you don't mind letting that obsession consume your life,...FINE, that's your choice, someday The Lord will talk some sense into you and inform you that you can only do so much without actually dying on a cross, but in the meantime, the respect you get [from yourself] is the respect you show [others]. If you stay here only to mock Christianity, then, according to the law of reciprocity (you resent what you feel belittles you, why you feel that is your business), you do yourself a disservice, but if you stay in order to share understanding, you have much to gain.
I doubt you could do a better job that I can at analyzing the errors that people make in the interpretation of Biblical teachings - unless this is part of your job or your focus of studies.
I have not shown any disrespect for any traditional teachings of the church. Criticizing, pointing our mistakes, errors in judgment, extremism and fanaticism is not disrespect. It your insecurities about your worth as a human being that makes you think any criticism about your beliefs is a sign of disrespect. If you held yourself to greater worth, you would not feel this way. Once you stop feeling worthless, this feeling will disappear. I cannot help you with this, it is up to you to help yourself.
It highly arrogant of you to think you know what the lord will or will not do. This is another example of the tremendous hubris you fanatics bring to any discussion. I will stay here because you have much to gain from help. It would be a disservice to you and to others extremist (and those who suffer because of your extremism) if I left this forum
Ever since you've been here Corinthian, you've expressed non-stop hatred. You haven't been just CRITICIZING and pointing out:
MISTAKES, errors in judgement, extremism and fanaticism.
you haven't been passive or simply commenting on anything, you've been agressive in everything. You're not like a Pharisee (self-righteous, greedy hypocrite), what you're doing is what the Zealots did. Jesus hardly spoke a word against The Zealots (Barrabas was their leader and set free by Pilate). You have a CAUSE (purpose for everyday life), and as long as you have that cause, you will have an agressive bias that rules your every thought and will have a one track mind (obsession) and not be able to read OBJECTIVELY any comments posted.
I didn't say that you had disrespect for "traditional teachings of the church" (if not, you should), I said YOU DON'T LIKE them (I don't either, but you're obsessed with not liking them. SO WHAT?, GET ON WITH LIFE, don't obsess about it. If you insist on obsessing, that's your choice, but please do it silently and keep it your business. Don't blame the teachings on us and don't take vengeance on us because you don't like our posts.
I think your last sentence means that you're going to stay and help us out so that we can learn to read the bible your way. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you criticize someone here because you felt they also wanted others to read THEIR way (pointing fingers is a tricky thing, I don't make it a practice).
You must have a very backward definition of hate to think that I have expressed hatred, much less “non-stop hatred”; this is the usual accusation you guys make. Anytime someone questions your beliefs, “HATRED” is yelled out without even considering the issues being raised. But in truth you are the hater, a introspection hater, a science hater, a reason hater, a hater of change, a fact hater. “The unexamined life is not worth living” (Socrates), you obviously disagree. What you prefer is to bury your head in the Bible and never question anything out of fear you might discover a fact that contradicts what you have spent so much time on.
I also think you are confusing assertive, strong, forceful arguments – which you may never have faced before – with aggressiveness. They are not the same. I think you subconsciously recognize the validity of my position. It frightens you, and so you strike out with the accusations of aggression. When the fear grips you, you are then unable to read anything more and all you see is a non existing hatred of Christianity. – it is a very serious personality flaw. I find your generalization of a group to be rather insulting, I am sure there were plenty of Pharisees and Zealots that did not meet your stereotype. It is not something that I would do Do you also have comments on Gypsies? Blacks? Hindus? Arabs?
I don't really care about the your posts, and I make no judgement on the liking or disliking of them. Poor Booboo feels unloved? Stop writing illogical, fanatical, unscientific junk. I also find the traditional teachings of the Church (Roman/England, ect.) far more reasonable and open than your wacky interpretations. They at least have the capacity to recognize that the Bible is not a technical paper, or a play by play instruction manual, and have adapted with the scientific and technological advances of society. You on the other hand, are incapable of rational thought on the matter – reality will not enter into your religion. You are obsessed with permanency, and will attack anyone who challenges your views. You need to get a life.
My last sentence was “It would be a disservice to you and to others extremist (and those who suffer because of your extremism) if I left this forum” this is very different from my comment on how some people try to force their interpretation of the Bible, my real concern is those who suffer under your extremism. I am not forcing my interpretation, I am merely dissecting your. I've intentionally avoided (though not completely) giving my interpretation of the Bible outside historical, errors, blatant misinterpretation and scientific matters.
Whatever you would like to do for humanity in order to HELP (improve), that "slap" had alot of attitude in it because your cause is getting the better of you whether you realiize it or not (just like The Zealots had a cause that mislead and distracted them from true devotion). The reference to the Pharisees was not a cultural or racial one, it was that their piety (devotion) was based on personal intentions (our mind works the way we want it to) and the ulterior motive of building their own empire. John The Baptist called them a "Brood of Vipers" because they were satisfied with ONLY what they were taught and taught each other much the same (in a similar fashion) as the traditional institutional teachings of many church organizations today (Matthew 3:7, Luke 3:7). Your whole first paragraph is exactly what The Pharisees did. Their devotion was subjective and they didn't want to disturb what they were comfortable with because their empire was fragile.
There are some foods that I never got to LIKE because of their taste, but I don't HATE them (life is too short for that, it wouldn't serve any useful purpose, and it would prevent peace of mind). It's the same with people, if they decide to make disagreement come between us, I simply (passively) avoid them (not aggressively resent, ridicule, offend, or attack). Not obsessing about it also gives me peace of mind (poetic justice, "what goes around, comes around").
You argue that you feel FORCED (I'm sorry that you feel that way, but we thought you agreed to simply participate in discussion, this is not an indoctrination forum), but the mere nature of 'debate' (a less formal word would be DISCUSSION) means that disagreement and alternate points of view will be expressed. Nobody has to agree on this forum, there is a common topic of discussion and it is meant for participants of a certain category,...Christians (hence the name "CHRISTIAN-ity Debate", as opposed to "exact copy of each other Debate") . The FORCEful arguementation you are in the habit of is the reason you feel pressured and forced, in other words, it is not our fault that you feel forced (what goes around, comes around, the law of reciprocity, "...for whatever a man sows, that also will he reap" Galatians 6:7).
Nobody was put here on earth for you to dissect, analyze and criticize, that is agressive (unecessarily assertive) behavior, not passive discussion.
Some times you need a little more elbow than others, it worked for Cher in Moonstruck, it is called a stimulus interrupt, and it also works well on dogs or people who are not thinking or feeling.You can also do it with children before the have a tantrum, I apply it sparingly but it works sometimes.It is an effective tool in animal training, I had hoped it would work on you, alas it did not.
“They were satisfied with ONLY what they were taught and taught each other”, this better describes an extremist like you, and not a moderate like me.You are a zealot (little z), a fanatical partisan that will not tolerate any new ideas and anything that is not contained within your beliefs is to be destroyed because it is ‘evil’.It is the height of ignorance.As a moderate I am capable of adapting to new situations, ideas, concepts - something like, EVOLUTION, BIG BANG, a pluralistic society, no discrimination, and reproductive freedom.All the things you don’t accept because someone taught you they were wrong.
As I pointed out to BN and WT recently, your religion is very subjective as well, I just recognize it.You don’t go around killing all the people the Bible says to kill for various transgressions.You have not stoned and adulteress or done any of the hundreds of things that you are commanded to do.You read, pick what you like and then called it true devotion – liar, hypocrite, fraud.Socrates is right, so what does that make your unexamined life?
You are also a hypocrite; you are not passively avoiding a disagreement.You are actively and aggressively engaging in one.What you are doing is obsessing over this subject, it is your CAUSE.To hate all who would oppose you.You can never achieve peace of mind or spirit carrying the way you do.Try adopting my philosophy it will help you in the long run.
Don’t go putting words in my post.I never wrote that I feel forced.Occasionally I am compelled to right your wrongs, but I never feel forced.Yet you while praising the format of debates wish to silence me because I debate to well.First you want me out, and then you write that differing opinions are required for debates - Make up your mind!If you feel facts are forceful, it is because you don’t like facts, logic either.They are anathema to your beliefs.
We (general WE, not you) developed the ability to think rationally about the world around us, to dissect, analyze, probe and inspect our universe; this includes ideas, religion and supernatural beliefs.Your refusal to use this wonderful evolutionary trait is the reason you feel that I am being forceful, you see thinking as aggression.Luckily for the world, not all think [sic] like you.
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