Been busy with a kitchen remodel, the old one was literally falling apart, growing black mold everywhere inside the rotting pressboard. Yecch!
It's nice to come in here, I feel like I'm close up and personal friends with so many, but I really appreciate the warmth you demonstrate to me.
Therefore, I know the home front is well taken care of when I'm away.
Special love and blessings to you SS, as well as ncym7, been there, and Mamma Crow.
In fact there are so many wonderful people on here now that I'm afraid I'm not remembering all the numbers and names that touch my heart whenever I come here.
typhonblue,,,I can't believe what I'm reading!!!!!!!!!!!
A person who comes to a forum meant for help and rationalizes gambling and porn...FOR A HUSBAND! He is a man, not a little kid that simply needs discipline because he is confused about life or refuses to do the right thing, he is a grown up man (a MARRIED man). Even the Boy Scouts know loyalty, honor, integrity, dignity and responsibility (it's called conscience).
Forget (just for the moment) about everything else about what this "man" is, just the gambling habit alone (well, I don't want to badmouth him for the sake of the wife), but the porn is done while he is clearheaded and in his sane mind (as if his other vice is not bad enough, he further flaunts his disrepect of his wife and children and everything else in the world that is good), he is a traitor. He doesn't have any self-respect and nobody who defends him does either (and I don't blame them either).
*I* read erotica and look at porn. Am *I* a failure as a wife?
Should I go home and burn all of my stash and then appologize to my husband for having the audacity to have fantasies that *gasp**horrors* DON'T INVOLVE HIM?
You do well to follow your own course of action if you have discovered that your own behavior has contributed to the anger and resentment around you. You would also do well not to project your own personal shortcomings and successes onto another person. Just from a cursory reading of your posts, you and #80332, we can discern that you are two very different people with very different situations.
I'm not making light of what you are saying, I think it is remarkable when someone takes stock of their own actions and works hard at correcting weaknesses. But not everyone is the cause of someone else's behavor, and especially not in a gambling/addictions situation.
>>"The roots that form addictive behaviors may form very early in age, but they don't explain why we _continue_ them. <<"" The operative word here is =addictive=. a. The condition of being habitually or compulsively occupied with or or involved in something. Regardles of what dysfunctions another human being may have, they in no way contribute to an addict's need for the object of desire. It does in childhood, but into adulthood, the only behavior from others that in any way affects the addict's behavior is the co-dependant enabler who allows them to contiue on. A healthy person does not enable another in their addictions and also knows it is impossible for anyone else to change an addict, he/she has to do that by themselves. The only healthy and wise thing that a person around the addict's sphere of influence can do is to remove themselves and any innocent young ones from the addict's path. That doessn't mean taking an inhumane approach of not being there if the person truly, truly needs support in order to change. But this case is rare, and in any case, the sane person needs to be in a place of emotional and physical safety.
The problem with the reasonable dialog that you suggest, is that once a person begins a cycle of lies, deceit, stealing, cheating, etc., etc., there is no productive conversation that can ensue. So in a way you are right, it is the stronger person who needs to make the positive change, and that means it's the healthy human being who must part in order to maintain their health and sanity.
We can argue that abused is often just as "guilty" or responsible as the abuser. We can even try to agree that responsibility is equal among them. Just for the sake of the argument, we'll asume that a raped girl is equally responsible as the rapist.
But there is one important difference:
Whatever the abused person did, was not overt, intentional and planned. It may be just as bad for instance teasing a drunk guy thinking nothing bad can happen only to find out later that a rape may happen... But the act of rape, that came as a result of the victims behaviour is much worse then anything she could've done.
At the same time - in what way did the kids cause or participate in causing his behaviour?
I totaly agree that passive agressive games exist, and a lot of times, even on these forums here, we can see that the person complaining is actually the problem. But in this case, even if I saw that there must've been something that the wife did that was wrong, his guilt was waaaaaaay above hers. She didn't walk out on her kids, she didn't say - I'll spend whatever I want on my cheap thrills, take it or leave it...
That's a big difference.
Her problem is that she actually didn't have a father. So instead of her participation in problem being passive-agressive, she actually contributed by not having a clear idea about what a good husband is like. She just didn't have the model after which she would choose a good husband. That's her "problem". She needs to observe other (good!) men, and stop idealizing those who are not so good. By not having done that, she contributed to her problem; hardly anything that she should feel responsible for.
"Not being a hard core feminist, I believe a woman has a right to want a marriage in which she can trust and feel loved by her husband, have her children in peace and safety, provide the best of all possible upbringing by staying at home with them, and not have to feel like she is expected to "go out and provide" as if staying at home with the couple's children was an automatic admission to lazyness and unworthyness. Although I may add, when a husband does not do his part and becomes an abuser, it is imperative that a woman have sufficient skills to be able to support herself and her children (after walking away from her source of danger and destruction = her husband)."
Regarding the above, there is no written law that I am aware of that states exactly what a "hard core feminist" is or what they think. However, feminism is one of the greatest things to happen to the human race, as women have been supressed, denied education, tortured, enslaved, belittled and put down to varying degress all throughout history. The supression of women is tied to almost everything that is wrong with this world, even the use of drugs in medicine, (which is a masculine way of dealing with the body), and so bringing feminine engergy into the forefront where it belongs is creating vast changes, and change can be painful.
Listening to the problems that the women on this forum are having with their husbands only shows that we have not come all that far...and a quick look around the world confirms this. The reason domestic work is looked down at and sneared at (which it is, both by men and women) is because it is associated with women.
I realize there is a conflict between women who have children and stay at home and those who work, and there is a need for some attitude adjustment there (on both sides), but women who stay home put themselves in very vulnerable positons...this is nothing knew either, as it has always been that way. As we search for ourselves in this new world of feminine freedom, some of the old ways must fall aside, even if they were comfortable...as slavery can have its comforts, especially if you have a kind master.
Must women be providers? In a perfect world, pregnancy would be considered an ultimate spiritual experience, and women during those nine months would live in nature, eat pure food, meditate, and be protected from stress, fatigue and worldly matters. We would be allowed to be the goddesses that we are and revered for the sacrifices we make in bringing a new life into the world. The domestic arts, and in particular the art of food preparation, would stand above the others, as they are the arts that nurture life itself. But this is not a perfect world, and we are so far from seeing women in that light that that probably sounds absurd to most, and so a wise woman would limit her exposure to pregnancy, and make sure she knows how to take care of herself and her children if she has them (for the first time ever we have choice!)even if she has the opportunity to stay home with them.
If perhaps the pendulum temporarily swung slightly to far in the other direction, it is only because it desperately needed to to create balance. After centuries of being denied equality as human beings, have a little compassion if we don't get it perfect in the first generation or two.
Women need to band together and support each other. To say that feminism denies that a woman should be loved by her husband and allowed to have her children in peace is ridiculous, and it only places another brick in the wall, dividing us rather that uniting us.
I on the other hand do not take issue with you. I am first and foremost a woman, and if I were not keenly aware of the difficulties and traumas to which my sisters are exposed, I would not be spending the time here that I could easily be doing something else. I don't write on here because I have nothing else to do, or because I enjoy reading my own posts. I know hardship from first hand experience and from years of helping and counseling other women.
To me a "hard core feminist" is an embittered woman who hates and opposes the traditional role of women in the home and not only refuses it for herelf, but puts down and snickers at women who might still want to fill those roles. No matter how justified the reaction to male oppression, the bitterness and anger is still a personal choice.
A modern woman is one who is able to make intelligent choices for herself and carries out her decisions. If that is considered feminism, then so be it, but leave out the anger and frown, please. (P.S. I was taught in my home to make my life whatever I wanted to out of it)
A female doormat is one who has no idea of what being an emotionally healthy woman/human being is, and allows herself for years and years to be abused, stepped on and denigrrated by pus bags in male bodies. In some cultures and societies, there is no escaping these conditons and mentality, but thankfully in this one, it has never been socially acceptable to treat womwn like dogs, regardless of what certain individuals out there might do at home.
I have not said that feminism in and of itself denies a woman to be loved by her husband. That is a far stretch from what I intended to say. How did you extrapolate that? However, I will take issue with just one little thing you said. The reson traditional roles are looked down upon, is not because it is about women, it is because it has suited the ugly, elitist political agenda that is set to overcome and rule the world. The same faction which has used the suffrering and enslavement of people everywhere to ultimately use it against them to further their plans. Then again, that's another story, another forum......
And ultimately; yes, women definitely need to support each other. It is what we have been doing forever and across every age cultural and barriers, and only blindness to what the political hoodlooms are doing can strengthen that dividing wall.
It seems to me that your husband is not made of "husband" material, to put it mildly.
Gambling, strip joints, wasting money like there's no tomorrow with his buddies or brother, that's not for a father and husband. It's probably not even for college kids.
To answer your questions bluntly (and I am male):
1. Is it any of my business what he did while he was away from the house?
Yes, you were still married and if he really cared about his family and you, he'd not welcome the separation as an opportunity to do all those "forbidden things"; in his place I'd be sad and sitting under some tree somewhere thinking - "where did I go wrong?". I certainly wouldn't be glad it all happened.
2. Should I have given up on him so easily?
You are asking two questions here: should you have given up on him, and should you have done it with such ease.
First one - yes, you should, if you wanted to. Or you could've chosen to stay with him, and suffer with your kids until you are left out on the street and he marrily walks to another strip joint and blows the money he doesn't have on girls and buddies.
The second one: was it really "easy" for you to make that decision? I think we all know the answer... it definitely was not easy. But you are probably asking this because he accused you of deciding to leave him with "ease". It's called a guilt trip and it's just part of a game to make you feel responsible for his behaviour. But you are only responsible for your own actions, and not his. Remember that. He's a human being, not a programmed robot or a trained animal - therefore whatever he does is a matter of his own decision making process. No one can force another person to do something against their own will. You couldn't force me to go to a strip joint, no matter what you did.
3. He wants us to be together, and claims that every marriage is rocky in the beginning, and claims that one day we would look back on this and laugh, is he right?
Another easy way out. Again, trying to mask his responsibility. Marriage being "rocky" or people adjusting to having to share a bed with someone is one thing. But stealing money from your own kids and wife??? Saying - you can take it or leave it??? I've never said that to my wife, and I've never taken a penny from the house, just like she never did that either.
So he is trying to confuse you. What if he sold the house and left you and the kids on the street - would that be a "rocky start to a marriage"??? No.
4. While we've been apart this time, he's kept it no secret that he is still gambling, and going out with his friends. He even ordered porn on my TV while he was visiting his kids. What should I do?
Great, at least you don't have to worry about making a bad decision. He's free to gamble, and that's not compatible with family life.
Remember that gambling is an addiction, and is one of the most damaging addictions. Only if the addicted person makes good no the promise to take therapy and so on, is it worth giving it a shot at staying together. In all other cases, even when there are tons of promises, but no real deep changes, it's best to walk away.
It is not your job to change him. It is all up to him and he's demonstrated how little he cares about you and kids.
Walk, or rather - run - before it's too late. Also, make sure he has no access whatsoever to your money: credit cards, checking account, and so on and get a good divorce lawyer.
Thanks again to anyone who expresed their support and advice. 77203 your answers to my questions were exactly how I felt, but was not sure if I was expecting too much feminity from a man.
Clearly we all have different ways of looking at situations, and I guess it all boils down to me doing what's best for not just my kids, but also myself.
Typhon, this thread has now Officially spiralled down into the "Typhon's Got The Answers Show."
This woman came to THIS forum seeking help and reasonable suggestions. You have not offered a SINGLE sound, reasonable, rational, or practical suggestion other than for her to remain with someone who obviously doesn't have HIS best interests in mind, his wife's best interests in mind, and (ESPECIALLY) his children's best interests in mind.
Again - where do you get off playing "Devil's Advocate" with someone's emotions? What are your qualifications? Any experience in counseling others with regard to relationship issues? Any experience assisting women and their children in ESCAPING a violent domestic situation? Any experience in finding LEGAL AID for a woman who's spouse has gambled or drank his way into JOINT BANKRUPTCY? I have had that experience and then some, and you're getting your control kicks by attempting to control this thread. Indeed, your refusal to recognize the boundaries of this Support Forum, and your veiled agenda has jeopardized your own credibility. As of this instant, I will no longer read, or respond to, any post that bears your Curezone ID.
Typhon, this thread has now Officially spiralled down into the "Typhon's Got The Answers Show."
This woman came to THIS forum seeking help and reasonable suggestions. You have not offered a SINGLE sound, reasonable, rational, or practical suggestion other than for her to remain with someone who obviously doesn't have HIS best interests in mind, his wife's best interests in mind, and (ESPECIALLY) his children's best interests in mind.
Again - where do you get off playing "Devil's Advocate" with someone's emotions?
First of all, I think I said repeatedly that if he's destructive she should leave and, if she wants, help him from afar without getting her finances mixed up.
I'm presenting a possible alternative point of view - his. It's not necessary to consider it accurate or useful or relevant.
What are your qualifications? Any experience in counseling others with regard to relationship issues? Any experience assisting women and their children in ESCAPING a violent domestic situation? Any experience in finding LEGAL AID for a woman who's spouse has gambled or drank his way into JOINT BANKRUPTCY? I have had that experience and then some, and you're getting your control kicks by attempting to control this thread. Indeed, your refusal to recognize the boundaries of this Support Forum, and your veiled agenda has jeopardized your own credibility. As of this instant, I will no longer read, or respond to, any post that bears your Curezone ID.
I'm sure you're more experienced then I am in those issues. To be true, I've only experienced the reverse. Male family and friends who are abused by their wives and mothers. I don't know how to help them at all except to tell them that it isn't cool when their female relatives/lovers attack them with knives or hit them. It's actually a source of intense frustration for me, particularly in the case of one of my uncles whom I love dearly being married to a woman who beats him up. I don't even know how to begin to help him, none of my family does.
I'm not sure where you're coming from with the control issue. I have a very different point of view, but that's it. I don't expect people to consider it the gospel truth or even something they should entertain seriously.
My _opinion_ is, when people have problems, they shouldn't automatically be labled the bad guy. Even when they do bad things. Often it seems to be motivated by fear and confusion. God knows my husband could come on this forum and tell some tales about me and my behavior. Which I am ashamed of, and I'm forever grateful he had the perserverence to work through it with me.
And I could tell some tales about how I've been treated in the past (and I have). But I don't want to feel like a victim, or feel vindicated that other people agree that the people who've hurt me in the past are abusers. I saw what was behind the abuse and it was just more pain. They were fellow sufferers too.
I'm sure that true about most abusive people. But the original poster tried lots of ways to offer support to her husband. That's what I don't think Typhon is recognizing. You just want her to keep at it with this guy till what? When is it ok in your mind to make a break from someone?
Typhonblue, my post with regard to your "opinion" was made in utter frustration.
You often have many helpful things to say, but, for some reason, this issue really burned you. The desire to support the abuser is natural if you, yourself, were once an abuser and had found healing. However, it may be that there are some really deep issues that you might want to consider addressing that surface when you're considering a specific situation. Yes, there are two sides to each story, and yes, this woman's husband is hurting, but she wasn't discussing his pain - only HE can do that and it doesn't look as if he has any intention of doing so, anytime soon.
Although it is a very strong temptation, we must avoid placing OUR opinions ahead of the raw and tattered emotions of someone who is in dire need of help. Internet Forums only allow for a very short and incomplete arena to offer help and guidance. We can only speak from what WE know, personally. Saying something like, "If it were me, I would consider....." or, "I once felt the same way and I got through it by ......" is completely appropriate. If we have not had the training or education to allow for a personal assessment, we should NEVER give in to that temptation because we don't know what we're doing or the harm we could inflict. In a Forum situation, we do not have the benefit of eye contact, physical language, or vocal inflections, and if we are not very careful in how we present our ideas, opinions, and feelings, we can do even greater damage to the person seeking help.
I apologize for stating that I would not read or respond to another post of yours - it was childish and there's no excuse for allowing my irritation to override common sense and courtesy.
you by no means are giving up to easily!! And yes you should know what he was doing during you two being apart,(this is who he is and you have a right to know this). Like with any addiction lying is inavoidable. But you certainly do not have to continually put up with it!! From how you discribed his attitude he doen't seem to care how much he's hurting you or your children by gambling all your money away!!
his claim that every marriage is rocky in the begining, comparing it to yours is ridiculous, not many marriages start out with one of the spouses gambling all their money away!! And believe this you bothe of you will never look back on this time in your life and laugh about it!. He looks at his gambling as a trivial temporary problem for now but believe me i know what gambling is all about and not only did i hurt myself but my friends and family as well. The money you make together is your to support your family and your childrens future. Is this important to him. With everything i have said so fara i don't believe you have to divorce him, maybe a long enough separation to allow him enough time to realize no matter how much you win ,you still lose. I will be happy to talk with you again anytime you need someone.
I have not read all the posts. As a retired Probation and Parole Officer I am familiar with compulsive gambling being an important factor in criminal behaviour behaviour. In my attempt to "rehabilitate" compulsive gamblers I found out that most of them proved positive to a test for hypoglycemia. Many mood disorders - including compulsive gambling - share the same underlying biochemical disorders, that can be treated by nutritional means. You'll find that most compulsive gamblers may prove positive to the test for hypoglycemia.
The four hour medical Test for Hypoglycemia explained at:
Hypoglycemia is may be responsible for depression, compulsive behaviour, addictions and compulsive gambling. Thus if you can treat depression or any other personality disorder you can treat compulsive gambling.
Hence an important part of overall treatment is getting the client to go on a hypoglycemic diet.
_______________________________________________
Jurriaan Plesman BA (Psych) Post Grad Dip Clin Nutr
Editor of
The Hypoglycemic Health Association of Australia.
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