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Re: Antiviral Protocol for MS
Forum: Vitamin C Debate Forum
 
  • Antiviral Protocol for MS   Hveragerthi   6y  6,278
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          Hveragerthi
          Re: Antiviral Protocol for MS

          Date: 10/25/2008 6:30:39 AM   ( 6y ago )
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          Subject: Re: Antiviral Protocol for MS
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          Date: 10/25/2008 5:59:03 AM ( 8 sec  ago )
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          Hveragerthi


          >Vitamin c has been shown to prevent certain kinds of kidney stones.

          "Kinds" is plural, meaning more than one. As far as I recall there are two forms of kidney stones. Calcium oxalate and uric acid. See the problem with your statement?

          >The oxalic acid theory has been tested at University Of Nebraska Medical School. >They infused 100,000 mg Intravenously to test toxicity. You are half right.

          Theory is a hypothesis backed by evidence. So thank you for pointing out that it is a theory. Secondly, studies are often designed to prove whatever the tester wants to prove. And studies can be taken out of context to also prove whatever wants to be proven. For example the chromium picolinate study that claimed that the chromium caused cancer. What was found was that when the mice were given 6,000 times the equivalent dose to be given to a human some cellular damage occurred. This did not mean cancer, and that dose of any pharmaceutical drug would kill us. So does that mean all pharmaceutical drugs are 100% lethal? Of course not. And another study claimed that vitamin C increased the risk of heart disease. What was actually found was that the vitamin C increased the thickness of the arterial walls by increasing collagen formation. This is what it was supposed to do, but it was misinterpreted in to vitamin C increased the risk of heart disease by narrowing the arteries. Finally, you did not state what animal was used in the test, nor had it been verified by independent sources? What will happen in one animal will not necessarily happen in another animal. We can eat chocolate, but it can kill a dog. Again, specific animals are chosen in medical studies that will most likely yield the desired outcome of the study. That is why animal testing is never standardized in medical studies. Therefore I am not going to take some supposed study that i Have not seen as truthful or even accurate.

          >If you have any renal failure you can get kidney stones this is true. But in normal >renal function this is not an issue.

          I believe I pointed that out. Though this rule does not apply to everyone. My step mother gets bladder infections every time she takes vitamin C, and she has never been diagnosed with any kidney disorders. More than likely it is oxalic acid crystals causing the problem.

          >Also, they found you can prevent these kidney stones by taking two very common >supplements with vitamin c infusions.

          Again, and unverifiable claim.

          >Amazon has great books written by licensed M.D.'s that disagree with this above >reader

          LOL!!! And I can find all sorts of studies that confirm what I have said that were also done by MDs. I have been around MDs enough to know for a fact that the majority of MDS don't know Jack about medicine. It was MDs that killed my grandfather, and I had to keep pointing out all of their mistakes to them. Like when they gave him lasix (furosemide) to drop his potassium because they claimed he had hyperkalemia (high potassium). All this while they had a potassium IV going in to him at a concentration of 40mEq. Being that you are supposedly a nurse then you should see the stupidity in that one pretty easily. Then there was the doctor that told my business partner that she had lymphoma based on one swollen lymph node scaring the hell out of her. Then there was the doctor that gave her dad Ambien and Lunesta, and when he started hallucinating from the drugs claimed that he had developed Alzheimer's overnight. And there were the 5 doctors on the case of a friend of mine that could not figure out why she stroked after being given a mass dose of an ACE inhibitor when she had normal blood pressure other than when going to the doctor, and why her blood pressure was shooting through the roof then a couple of minutes later it would be bottoming out. Then it would shoot through the roof again, then bottom out. By the way her pulse was 125 when they took it which was a clear clue to what was going on. Still all 5 doctors could not figure it out. So I had to write them a letter explaining to them what was going on. Once I did that they were able to correct the problem. Let's see if you are as smart as you want to make yourself out to be and tell us what was going on with her. By the way I can give you a lot more examples of pure MD ignorance that I personally witnessed. So if you think a title of MD after someone's name impresses me you are dead wrong. The applies to RN or BSN. I used to post on another board that had a critical care nurse on there> She was one of the dumbest people I have ever met. Among her numerous mistakes was her belief that epinephrine and adrenaline were two separate drugs. Then when I mentioned oral hypoglycemics she argued with me for weeks claiming that there were no drugs to treat hypoglycemia. Actually there is, but that is not what a oral hypoglycemic is. Hopefully you know what they are. I would hate to think that there were two of her out there.

          >who hasn't stated his credentials, his name, or his phone number, such as I have!

          First of all the policy of this board states not to use your real name. Secondly I have seen too many nut cases on these boards and I would not post my personal information on a public board like this. That is just plain stupidity!!! Furthermore, if you want to get in to a war of actual medical titles after a name I can guarantee you that I will win. I started in medicine back when I was 14 years old.

          And speaking of your so called titles, they do not mean anything. "Licensed nurse"? LPN? RN? Practicing nurse in a hospital? A nursing home? A teaching nurse? A research nurse or assistant? Working in private clinic with an agenda? Saying a licensed nurse is like saying one is a doctor just because they have a PhD. More knowledge is gained from working experience than can ever be book learned. The same applies to your other claims of title. "Collegiate background"? I can attend classes in those subjects for a few days or have even failed them and still claim a collegiate background in those areas. Personally I find that those who have to toot their own horns with a bunch of so-called credentials have something to hide, such as lack of real knowledge. If someone really knows what they are talking about it will show. They do not have to try and convince people that they know what they are talking about with a bunch of fluffy credentials!

          >Furthermore, all vitamin c is absorbed into blood stream, while it is there it >donates hydrogen to chemical reactions, donates electrons to mitochondria

          Since you believe everything that a MD says about vitamin C then you should love what this MD says about vitamin C assisting cancer by among other things repairing DNA of cancer cells damaged by therapies:



          http://members.nowpublic.com/health/vitamin-c-may-undermine-cancer-treatment



          Here is more:



          http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/68/19/8031




          >attatches to exposed based pairs on RNA strands of many viruses and ceases >replication.

          In vitro? Or in vivo? And demonstrated in humans?

          >When flushed out of the kidney it may pick up a hydrogen and this is part of the >bodies own ph balancing system in the kidneys.

          The body has all sorts of ways to adjust pH. Even breathing! And people tend to focus way too much on trying to become very alkaline not realizing that acid is not the cause of many diseases like cancer, most pathogens thrive in a alkaline, not acid environment, and alkalosis is also dangerous.

          >SO as you urinate out vitamin c, it has done wonders and wasn't waisted.

          Or possible damage. For instance the jury is still out on whether or not ascorbic acid is a pro-oxidant as well as an anti-oxidant. By the way, do you know why large doses of antioxidants have a suppressive effect on the immune system? With the credentials you tout this should be an easy question for you to answer.

          >Mega dose vitamin c has been supported by Licensed M.D.'s all over the world

          Hmm, so is chemotherapy. Yet I would not recommend chemotherapy either.

          >Every mammal on earth manufactures it's own vitamin c

          They do?!!! Show me any evidence that humans, which are mammals, produce their own vitamin C. I have never seen any evidence of this, nor have I ever heard anyone with a real medical background ever make this claim. So I eagerly await your evidence to this newest wild claim!

          >Lastly, all vitamin c protocols recommend a taper up and a taper down for this >rebound scurvy. It is very rare and is not an issue as long as you taper. Again, >this protocol was being done under supervision of doctors.

          What you are overlooking is that not everyone is doing this under doctor care, nor is everyone aware of this. I have talked to numerous people that have been megadosing on vitamin C under the false assumption that it is perfectly safe because they can urinate out the excess. Not only were they not under doctor supervision, but they were also unaware of the rebound effect. Assuming that everyone will be doing this under ideal conditions is just as dangerous.

          >I personally take 20,000 mg daily for five years. My daughter at the age of six >months was taking sodium ascorbate at 2,000 mg daily for any viral infection as she >had reactive airway. It immediately suppressed her cough for 2-4 hours.

          Gee, I would think that if vitamin C was such a good antiviral as you claim that it would have knocked out the virus completely rather than just suppress the cough for a few hours. Quercetin is also dilate the bronchioles, and it really does a great job of killing viruses. Not only that, but it is really safe, breaking down in to another beneficial flavonoid called rutin.

          >Much of what I say is reported by Nobel Prize Winning Chemists and researchers.
          >By the way, how many Nobel Prizes in chemistry does the above writer have?

          I guess I could ask the same of you since again you think your so-called credentials somehow make you credible. Though it does not really matter since you pointed out that only some of what you said is supported. And this is most likely the parts about a few of the well known functions of vitamin C and not on safety or effectiveness. This is all that can be assumed considering how vague you keep being with all your supposed research and backing.

          >Vitamin a- it does make me uncomfortable. I know for a fact they use 100,000 to >150,000 iu, in cancer patients. This prtocol does scale back vitamin a after one >month. It was also being done under the guidance of a doctor who can perform simple >liver enzyme tests and monitor liver function. The writer is correct that the liver >can be affected by too high vitamin a. In future postings I have made the >recommendation that anyone who takes vitamin a in any significant dosage, test >their liver with a simple lab test. But the amounts in this protocol are half of >what they use in cancer treatments.

          Are they also checking bone density since it has also been found that vitamin A supplementation at a fraction of the lowest dose you mention has been shown to deteriorate bone? Or do you ever bother telling people about potential adverse effects of what you recommend?

          >Too much water is bad for you too, but I don't see you bad mouthing people who >recommend increased water consumption.

          You have not read all my posts I have ever wrote have you? I don't see you telling people that too much oxygen can kill as well. Are you really that desperate to try and make me look bad that you are nitpicking over stuff that you think I have never said?

          >DMSO is 100 times cheaper than MSM and operates more effectively at oxygen donation >than does MSM. But don't argue with me, argue with Ph.D. Biochemist at

          LOL!!! Breathing deeper will add more oxygen. Chilling water will increase oxygen levels, especially if you ozonate it. This does not make these good sources of oxygen. For instance lets say theoretically that a dose of DMSO gives the body 1,000 molecules of oxygen. How long do you think that oxygen will last? How much more oxygen will you get by taking a deep breath? And how do you get more oxygen donation from DMSO when MSM is DMSO with an extra oxygen atom?

          >Do not apply using rubber or latex gloves. Apply to clean skin, or take drops in >large glass of H20.

          Again, not clear instructions. What is clean skin? Cleansed with soap and water? If so then the DMSO is going to carry the soap scum on the skin right in to the bloodstream. This is why the skin should first be cleaned with soap and water, then cleaned again with rubbing alcohol to remove the soap scum.

          >The baking soda thing, I have mixed emotions, but it is in the protocol and you can >talk to hundreds of people who are currently using it in other viral infections.
          >The chemical reaction of baking soda is soley not to truly alkalize but to reduce >the pp of CO2, that chemical reaction is detailed at
          >http://earthclinic.com

          Using it in viral infections for what? Most pathogens thrive in an alkaline environment. I would think that with your supposed background that you would know this? Why do you think antibiotics cause yeast infections? Why do you think H. pylori secretes ammonia, which is alkaline? Do you really think that the intestines are acidic? Because this is where E. coli resides and in the blood it can cause some serious problems. Hint to make it easy for you. The intestines ARE NOT acidic.

          With your supposed background I would have thought that you would also know that baking soda releases CO2 when it reacts with stomach acid, and that CO2 in the blood exists are carbonic acid, not CO2. By the way, do you know why CO2 in the blood is so important, and why dropping it to much can cause serious problems? Again, if you really have a medical or physiology background then this should be really easy for you to answer.

          >You can't change ph of blood, but can can change ph of body fluids,intracellular >fluids.

          You cannot change the pH of extracellular fluids? Since when? Oh, by the way, yes you can easily change the pH of blood easily. Here maybe this will help you, and by the way it plays a role in one of my earlier questions for you. There a big hint to help you out:



          http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6092623


          J Physiol. 1984 Oct;355:177-89
          Respiratory effects of carbon dioxide-induced changes of medullary extracellular fluid pH in cats.

          Here is another hint for you though a question. Again if you are really a nurse this should be easy for you to answer. What role does pH play in controlling ICP?

          >But, excuse my microbiology major, VIRSUSES DO NOT LIKE ALKALINE CONDITIONS. To >disagree with this statement is preposterous and bold. All over the web you can >find information about hundreds of different viruses and all of them hate oxygen >and alkaline conditions.

          LOL!!!!!!!! What BS!!!!! I suggest you go back to the school you supposedly went to and get a refund. Here, maybe this will help you out:



          http://pathmicro.med.sc.edu/mayer/vir-host2000.htm


          VIROLOGY - CHAPTER TWELVE

          VIRUS-HOST INTERACTIONS

          "Low pH
          The low pH of gastric secretions inactivate most viruses. However, enteroviruses are resistant to gastric secretions and thus can survive and replicate in the gut."

          And this one showing a resistance to a wide range of pH, including alkalinity:



          http://www.jimmunol.org/cgi/content/abstract/69/5/551


          Purification Studies on Lansing Poliomyelitis Virus: pH Stability, CNS Extraction and Butanol Purification Experiments

          "Lansing poliomyelitis virus in gently clarified homogenates is not measurably inactivated upon exposure to pH values 1.5 or 10.5 at 4 C for at least 24 hours. At pH values 3.6, 4.7, 7.1, and 8.4 this resistance is maintained over the entire 21-day period of observation."

          By the way, retroviruses such as HIV are also pH independent.

          And as far as oxygen goes, that is total BS as well. If what you claimed was true then why can't we cure ALL viral infections with hyperbaric oxygen therapy? I really want to see an answer to this one since what you claim has never been demonstrated, and is clearly WRONG!!!

          And since you are claiming that oxygen kills viruses then I assume that you also feel the same about cancer, of which the majority of cancers have viral origins. The whole cancer cannot survive high oxygen is another myth. The Nobel Prize winner Otto Warburg never claimed this. He was misquoted, and the misquote has been repeated over and over by people using the false claim for their own sales agendas. What Warburg said was that cancer cells ferment REGARDLESS of whether or not oxygen is present.

          >THe sodium thing is hugely misleading. People die from too low of sodium,

          Did I ever say otherwise? No!!! But as you pointed out earlier people can die from too much water as well. Yet too low of water can also kill you. So your point?

          >and you must drink it with entire glass of water to bring down it's hypertonic >concentration.

          Simple chemistry: It depends on the amount of salt present. If you have a cup of salt in the glass then filling the glass with water does not back your point.

          >Sodium will not affect water balance or even sodium levels as long as it is taken >with plenty of water.

          And you said you had collegiate background in physiology? Do you know why Prednisone causes water retention? Do you really think that taking a lot of water is going to prevent this problem? Sodium, along with potassium, vasopressin, estrogens, and other factors all play a role in water balance.

          >I saw the biochemical equations of what bicarbonate does to CO2 levels.

          I still don't have a clue what you are referring to. Are you even aware of the fact that most of the CO2 in the blood is in the form of bicarbonate already? Do you know what alkalosis is and why it is a problem?

          On the subject, what is the role of sodium bicarbonate in the body, and where is it stored. What is it produced from in the body? These should be extremely simple questions to answer if you really have the background you claim.

          >It doesn't break down polyphenols, How can you say that baking soda breaks down >polyphenols, It does separate the hydrogen from polyphenols and what you have >failed to realize is that once this antioxidant reaction is carried out, the stable >ringed structure of poly phenols now features a double bonded oxygen. Again, argue >with Dr. Gregg about this so you can get the entire picture straight. OK?

          Did you really take chemistry in college? Or even high school? I did not say that it broke down the polyphenols. If you had the background you claim then you would have known that most polyphenols are acids. For example tannic acid. Now back to the most basic of chemistry. When you mix an acid with a base like bicarbonate the acid is NEUTRALIZED. This is why mixing milk in tea neutralizes its benefits. I don't need to argue with Dr. Gregg because if this is what you have learned from him then I already know that he does not know anything about medicine or chemistry either.

          >THe role of Carboxyl group also has been mis-stated with a blanket generalization. >Carboxylic acid breaks down into acetic acid in water

          Maybe my chemistry is rusty, but is it the acetic acid or the water that you are claiming is oxygen (O2)? I always thought acetic acid was CH3COOH and that water was H2O. I never knew that either one of these were O2. Maybe I should have attended your college, LOL!!! Carboxyl groups donate their H or OH, again which are not O2.

          >Carboxyl group is found in pyruvic acid for crying out loud, and pyruvic acid is a >neccessary part of the Krebs cycle. Without pyruvic acid we could not possible burn >glucose using oxygen. Without carboxylate you could not have pyruvic acid.
          >Do you get it? No carboxyl group mean no pyruvic acid, nor pyruvic acid means no >Kreb's cycle. I think you would agree that burning glucose using oxygen is a good >thing? Then again, No telling what you will say next!

          And all this has what to do with your claim that I questioned? Pyruvic acid can be changed to lactic acid or acetyl coenzyme A DEPENDING ON WHETHER OR NOT SUFFICIENT OXYGEN IS PRESENT. This is a far cry from your claim as an oxygen donor. In fact it contradicts what you said. You remind me of the old saying "if you cannot dazzle them with brilliance then baffle them with bulls***"! You are definitely working on the later! I pointed out your error and you went off in a totally unrelated direction that actually proved your own claim wrong. Apparently you were hoping that nobody here would be smart enough to expose your mistake because you are trying so hard to sound scientific.

          >Also, carboxylates do not form -OH as any normal chemist will explain, Why?

          That was error in the reading. I am so use to these alkalinizing groups falsely claiming that OH is an oxygen supplier as well that I accidentally started referring to hydroxyl rather than carboxyl. If you read your original response you will see that hydroxyl (OH) did not come up.

          >Potassium issue is real- another thing that makes me uncomfortable about this >protocol, but the bottom line really is your body doesn't store potassium,

          I don't know where you are getting the storage of potassium part. The body does keep a certain amount of potassium in the body for good reason. But if levels are high the body tries to get rid of it. If too low it tries to prevent its excretion. This is because high or low levels can cause problems with the heart.

          >the recommended suplementation is on the bottle itself and would be recalled if >unsafe, such as tryptophan was.

          Again you are mistaken. The problem with tryptophan had nothing to do with dosage. In fact it was not tryptophan that caused the problems, but rather a contaminant. It would be nice if you could get something correct so I did not have to spend so much time correcting your mistakes.

          >Burning a whole in your stomach? Please send me that case history. I believe this >to be a lie, a fabrication that is intened to keep people from therapies that may >help them,...I think this would be defined as crimminal behavior, and please >provide me with your name and address so that my attorney can provide you with the >laboratory and human studies where potassium supplementation with citrates or >sulfates is actaully studied in depth. You obviously haven't seen these studies.

          You need to learn to read as well. Here, let me help you through the reading:

          "Another fact not well known about potassium is that many potassium supplements can burn a hole right through the stomach wall. It took quite a while for the pharmaceutical companies to come up with a form of potassium supplementation that would not cause this problem."

          "Many" refers to SOME, not ALL. What I was pointing out was the history of the development of potassium supplements. Unlike you I actually do research. During the search for safe potassium supplements some of the earlier experiments found SOME forms of potassium could do this. Do I need to break it down in even more simple terms for you to understand?

          Furthermore, I frequently recommend potassium for people. I am not against supplements, I am against uneducated use of supplements. If people get hurt because someone does something stupid then the whole alternative field suffers. Look at ephedra for example. ONE person overdosed on ephedra by taking 8 times the recommended dose. Next thing we know the FDA was blaming all of the deaths from the pharmaceutical synthetic ephedrine HCl on the herb ephedra, even though they were not the same thing. So the safer herb ephedra was banned while an exemption was made for the more dangerous synthetics ephedrine HCl, pseudoephedrine HCl, and PPA. As another example the FDA banned germanium illegally as a "non-conforming food additive" all because some m*o*o*ns trying to make a quick buck sold toxic germanium dioxide for true organic germanium (Bis betacarboxyethyl germanium sesquioxide).

          >Hydrochloric acid can burn a hole in a lot more things than potassium can.

          Again not quite true. You are over looking some basic facts like concentration, substance, and things like the protective lining of the stomach, which acid does not affect. It does not protect from an equal concentration of potassium hydroxide though.

          >Millions of people are taking black strap molasses for Lupus and other diseases, >this contains tons and tons of potassium, yet still there is no documented case of >heart arrythmias due to black strap molasses. If you are aware of any cases where >molasses has killed someone, just put the article where your mouth is, or just go >away and frighten other people soemwhere else. Why are you trying to scare people >with this horrible disease.

          In my opinion you have a screw loose!!! Two tablespoons of molasses provides less than 15% of the daily value for potassium. So it would take over 6 tablespoons jsut to meet the RDA. And by the way, the RDA is the absolute MINIMUM required to maintain health. And taken throughout the day the body would have plenty of time to eliminate any excess that may develop. Supplements are a different story. And you said you are a nurse?

          Furthermore, I am not trying to scare anyone away from anything. I am trying to educate people to do things safely. Remember the lady that died from drinking too much water recently in that contest? So if I had called in and expressed my concern about what they were doing would you still be objecting? Donít you care about people's health and safety?

          >COME ON! Every time you urinate or defficate or perspire you give off potassium, >and the biggest offender of abnormally high potassium levels is potassium chloride >which is highly soluable and rapidly absorbed. This is what is in artificial salt.

          The potassium citrate and potassium sulphate you mention are also artificial salts. I thought with all your supposed chemistry background that you would have known that! They are not extracted this way from nature, they are manufactured in a lab.

          >The protocol doesn't ask for potassium chloride, and again was designed to be >carried out in the presence of a licensed doctor.

          Hmmm... I just went back and read through your whole post. NOWHERE did it say to be under a doctor's supervision. No wonder you keep Prepaid Legal on hand.

          >How many Nobel Prizes do you say you had?

          You never asked before this post. Do you think you have more than me? Is your Nobel Prize as real as the credentials you claim?

          >Also, Potassium is also much harder on people with kidney failure that is >ascorbate. So, what happened to your huge concerns of people's Kidneys here, guess >you must have different motives?

          ROTFLMAO!!!! You keep contradicting yourself!!! Let's see, potassium is hard on people with kidney disease and I am advocating that people do not go overboard on potassium...... So what's the problem? You are backing what I am advocating with your statement.

          >White corpuscle argument wasn't even an argument! WHY did you devote any energy and >time to this?

          I am not trying to argue, I am trying to educate. You obviously don't have a clue how the immune system works, especially when it comes to autoimmunity. Let me give it to you in a nutshell. In autoimmunity low affinity antibodies tag HEALTHY TISSUES for destruction. The white blood cells (corpuscles) do their job by destroying anything tagged for destruction by white blood cells. Polysaccharides INCREASE white blood cell activity, and therefore INCREASE the rate of destruction of HEALTHY TISSUE. Check Medline for the studies showing increased destruction of healthy tissue by autoantibodies due to polysaccharide sources. If you don't understand the studies feel free to contact me and I will help explain them to you!

          >Chlorophyllin is actually what most people eat.

          You must be a politician. You have repeatedly shortened what I rally said then have taken it out of context. Plus you are wrong ONCE AGAIN! Chlorophyllin is a semi-synthetic. It is not a naturally occurring substance. What most people eat is chlorophyll from plants. And once again chlorophyll is unstable. So the magnesium in the chlorophyll is replaced with sodium and/or copper to stabilize the molecule. This IS NOT chlorophyll!!! And sodium and/or copper can be a problem in high doses. I am not saying that proper use is dangerous. You are implying that I said that. In fact I have used chlorophyllin myself. Stop changing what was really said. It really reduces your credibility when play such games.

          >But studies show it reduces C02 by means of Calvin cycle. It is also the hemoglobin >used in all molluscs,

          Uh oh, time to give you another basic chemistry lesson. Heme as in hemoglobin refers to iron. Chlorophyll is not iron based, it is magnesium based. Oh, and by the way the blood of mollusks is not based with chlorophyll either. There blood contains copper bearing haemocyanin. By the way I have been studying marine biology for most of my life. So don't try to dazzle me with your bulls***.

          >really it is actual hemoglobin in animals.

          Again, see the above.

          >In animals it carries 02 and C02 as effectively as our hemolglobin,

          Show me the medical studies proving this.

          >which is chlorophyll with iron center instead of copper.

          Copper? I thought you had all this Science background. As I pointed out in my last post chlorophyll contains magnesium in place of iron. It is not copper as you claim. If it was then they would not have to use copper to stabilize the chlorophyll as chlorophyllin. Here maybe this site can help you to learn this fact:



          http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/motm/chlorophyll/chlorophyll_h.htm



          "This is very similar in structure to the heme group found in hemoglobin, except that in heme the central atom is iron, whereas in chlorophyll it is magnesium."


          >Please submit the proof that chlorophyllin can't perform the same functions as >chlorophyll. Post it here on curezone. Otherwise you are full of it!

          You are the one making the ridiculous claims. You post the scientific evidence of your claims. I should not have to waste my time proving or disproving your claims. If you want to debate then debate involves backing your own claims with proof. By the way, if you read my post I never said one way or the other what chlorophyllin can or cannot do. So I don't know why you are getting your panties in such a bunch!

          >If you read up on copper supplementation, which I recommend you do, copper over->doses are difficult to facilitate and very rare. The copper in consumable >chlorophyllin is not disolved like metalic salts, it is trapped, it is not >reactive, it is stable, and therefore displaces nothing!!!!!! Again, almost a lie!

          Again, proof of your claim? And I am not talking about a sales site. I am talking about actual studies verifying your claims. Sorry I don't take you for your word, but with all the lies and misinformation you have posted so for I would not believe you if the Pope vouched for you.

          >By the way, look up Photodynamic therapy and then ask why doctors are infusing >chlorophyll into humans and then stimulating certain areas with ultraviolet light.

          I have known about photodynamic therapy for over 25 years. The original PDT was using blue lasers to fluoresce the cancers to pinpoint them then using a red laser to create the photochemical reaction that destroyed the cells. The chemicals being used to sensitize the cancer cells were human pophyrin derivative and psoralens. Yes, chlorophyll extracts can be used as a photosensitizer. Being though that 1. They are using chlorophyll extracts, not chlorophyll, that the average person will not have access to 2. Requires equipment that the average person will not have access to and 3. That the average person is not going to be using this therapy what does this have to do with anything? I don't understand your reasoning. It is like if we were talking about diamonds that you would all of a sudden start talking about plastic because they both contain carbon. Again more of your "if you cannot dazzle them with brilliance then baffle them with bulls***" games!

          >I don't know who you are, but I wish I did.

          Yes, it would be nice to take the time to educate you on medicine, especially alternative medicines, but I don't have time. You see I spend a lot of time traveling lecturing on the benefits of herbs, and teaching classes on the benefits of alternative medicines when used properly. A few months ago I taught a 3 week course on alternative medicine (2 basic, 2 intermediate, and 2 advanced classes). Then about 3 weeks ago I spent 2 days teaching a group of practitioners all about how to use alternative medicines properly. When I am not doing my teaching I am running my herb business and working on my books on alternative medicine. Right now I am working on a book on the use of supplements and other alternatives for the treatment of osteoporosis, osteomalacia, and osteoarthritis. So sorry, but I just don't have time to teach you about alternative medicines, especially when you think you already know it all and refuse to learn the facts about science and medicine.

          >Perhaps you are quoting somebody who has a vested interest in illness and/or death. >Perhaps you own a mortuary or maybe you pretend to be some kind of benefit for M.S. >patients as doctors have done for decades.

          LOL!!! And you wonder why I think you have a screw loose!!! I am not the one putting people's health and lives at risk with misinformation. I mean you did not even know that high polysaccharide consumption could aggravate autoimmune disorders. You did not even understand how antibodies and white blood cells play their role in autoimmunity, nor the role of polysaccharides in white blood cell activity. You did not know that humans are mammals. And thought mammal blood is chlorophyll based. Should I go on with the list of your outrageous claims?!!!!

          >Maybe you own stock in pharmaceuticals or work for a pharmaceutical company.
          >But you do not work for a pharmaceutical company that makes interferon which they >use in M.S. today. ( The only traditional therapy to have any merit since they >first discovered M.S.) Hmmmm? Interferon for M.S.? What on earth are they trying to >treat do you suspect?

          No, actually I hate the pharmaceutical companies and have spent a lot of time writing about pharmaceutical corruption. For instance the generic drug scandal where the FDA was approving untested drugs in exchange for payoffs. And the ways the manipulate drug studies to get worthless drugs approved. For example chemo drugs like Endostatin, in which anyone that died or did not respond to the drug during clinical trials was dropped from the final results to make the drug appear effective. Actually this is a very common practice in the pharmaceutical industry.

          Oh, by the way, interferon is crap! What most people do not understand, including you is that interferon is not a singular thing. Different tissues produce different interferons, and each works best for the tissues they are derived from. This is one of the reasons that interferon therapy RARELY works for most diseases. I prefer poke root, which contains the protein PAF, which is similar in structure to interferon, and has interferon's effects. It is not tissue specific though, so it actually has a great advantage over pharmaceutical interferons. I also know how to combine it with another herb that actually works with the poke to activate WBCs while reducing the toxicity of the poke. I use this trick in several of my formulas. By the Way I DO NOT RECOMMEND POKE ROOT UNLESS THE PERSON REALLY KNOWS WHAT THEY ARE DOING WITH IT. Poke can be toxic.

          >But, finally, I had an anaerobic infection for decade and a half. Three years ago I >was is so much pain and fatigue I could barely make it through work. Ibuprofin made >a mint off of me as did makers of antibiotics.

          Should have contacted me right off the bat. Ozone would have cleared it right up safely.

          By the way, ibuprofen is extremely dangerous. It killed 2 dozen people during clinical trials from ibuprofen induced hepatitis. It can also cause heart attack, stroke, kidney failure, aseptic meningitis, tinnitus, loss of vision, etc. NSAIDs like ibuprofen kill over 16,500 a year according to FDA estimates. Of course this is much lower than the true number since many of these deaths are falsely attributed to other things. The same trick used to hide the real death rate from chemotherapy.

          >I researched and provide access and referrals to cancer patients and autoimmune >patients. Realizing that oxygenation and prevention of fermentation where in fact >closely associated with favorable outcomes to anaerobic illnesses, I decided to >practice what was being preached by all these practitioners, some who were M.D.'s.

          If you think autoimmunity is an anaerobic condition then you really need to learn how the body works!!! And as far as cancer goes it involves a lot more than just trying to inhibit fermentation. Which more precisely is blocking the lactic acid cycle. Of course I brought up a lot of this in previous post to you asking you why the other factors are so important. The fact that you never responded to my questions just proves to me that you are clueless to these conditions.

          >Not only did my infection finally go away, the wart on my finger began to shrink >for the fist time in 30 years. I take many of the things on this protocol with the >exception of DMSO. I have not died yet, in fact, I've been reborn and work longer >hours now than I did twenty years ago, and by the way, my Yahoo chess rankings >increase 2,000 points. Hmmmm! The oxygenation thing saved my life, made me younger, >brighter, healthier than I have ever been. I wasn't reborn, I was re-made.

          Did I happen to mention that I have been working with ozone therapy for the last 16 years, and even build my own machines? I have also been working with radiofrequency therapy for 18 years. Funny what you can learn from someone when you shut up and stop assuming about someone, and start paying attention to the fact that they are trying to help by educating people with the truth rather than the BS that you are trying to spread!!!

          >All you have accomplished was to scare M.S. patients away from hope.

          I did? How? By pointing out well known facts like polysaccharides will increase autoimmune destruction? Maybe it was the fact that I pointed out about MS being triggered by a virus that needs to be addressed. Or maybe it was because I was explaining how the immune system works, and how low affinity antibodies play a role in autoimmunity so this problem can be addressed. You know, if I had not spent half the night correcting your lies, assumptions and misinformation I could have spent this same time explaining to you in depth how autoimmunity occurs and how to correct it through natural means! Instead you spend your time acting like a m*o*o*n in my opinion lashing out all because someone pointed out a few of your errors. Of course with the fact that you feel such a need to put up your supposed "qualifications" just goes to show how big your ego is and how fragile it really is!!!

          >But here is one fact you cannot dispute, The graveyard is full of people who tried
          >to treat their autoimmunes with modern medicine alone!

          And MS has never been cured by mainstream medicine. In fact they really don't have a clue when it comes to autoimmunity. They are still under the false assumption that autoimmune disorders occur from an overactive immune system. So they try to wipe out the immune system with immune suppressive steroids. All this does is cover up the symptoms while making the underlying condition worse. Autoimmunity is from an immune suppression through the adrenals, not a hyperactivity of the immune system. This is why things that suppress immunity like stress, stimulants, and steroids make these conditions worse. The production of the proper high affinity antibodies is partially dependent on sufficient levels of immune modulating corticosteroids being released from the adrenal glands. The rest of the immune system, such as white blood cells and cytokines continue doing their job just as they are designed to do. In other words no hyperactivity of the immune system anywhere. Building up the adrenals with supplements and adaptogenic herbs, and avoiding stress, stimulants and steroids is all essential in properly treating autoimmunity.

          >Why don't you knock modern medicine then!

          LOL!!! I spend a good majority of my time doing that. Again though, you have been so quick and steady to go on the attack that you did not bother to take the time to learn what I really stand for. That is the problem with ego and assumptions, especially when combined as we have seen in your case!!!

          >But don't take my word for it, I'll give you my address and you can come to my >house and I will gladly demonstrate how much incredible energy I do have, all over >your lying little behind!

          I should have added extremely angry ego with assumptions to that last comment.

          Hopefully you will learn something about chemistry and medicine from this post as well as not jumping to conclusions, anger management, and some respect for people, especially when they are trying to help you with a little proper education!
          By the way. Now you can see one the main reasons that I don't post personal information on boards like this. People like you really scare me because of your tempers and assumptions.
           
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