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Flechas: Questions and Answers
Forum: Iodine Supplementation Support by VWT Team
 
  • Flechas: Questions and Answers   R Maniek   5y
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    Flechas: Questions and Answers
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    Date: 12/30/2009 1:53:00 PM   ( 5y ago )
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    Flechas: Questions and Answers
    From Consults with Lynn, Zoë, and Others 


    Compiled by Lynn



     Do you have a good explanation for the doctor's who worry when the TSH goes up on higher iodine supplementation? Some breast cancer women have had their Iodoral lowered because of increasing TSH.

    He gave me a report of a Danish study: TSH Stimulation before Radioiodine Enhances Goiter Shrinkage by John Bell. Basically they give TSH to patients to facilitate iodine absorption into the thyroid. So the iodine hungry thyroid is secreting more TSH to help uptake. (I will try to scan this short report in for us)

     Some people have severe bromide reactions that scare them off continuing on Iodoral especially rashes. How can they deal better with this?

    A new study from Duke (I think it's there?) showed that 80% of the bromide is excreted in the first 2 weeks of iodine supplementation so detox reaction should lessen tremendously after this. Also increasing salt, water, Vit C, selenium should help. Otherwise you have to wait it out.

     One person reported having floaters in her eyes after a few days on 4-6 drops of Lugol's. Any explanation? 

    Flechas had not heard of that before but did know an ophthalmologist who said he thinks the iodine works on the eye cells and reduces pressure in the eye. It's possible that the floaters are results of eye debris clearing out. (I can't recall the rest but my general remembrance was that he thinks iodine will be shown to normalize glaucoma and other eye problems.)

     Is there currently a test for toxins in conjunction with the loading test? Brownstein reports breast cancer women as showing higher toxic loads than non-breast cancer women. Can this be tested so iodine will show a decrease in toxic loads?

    There will be shortly a bromide- and fluoride-loading test. He's not sure exactly when that will be available as they are still finalizing the test. There is also a heavy metals test that can be sent for when the loading test is done. He doesn't recommend it as it adds to the cost but for someone very nervous about cancer it might be worthwhile.
    He didn't say more on this and I didn't ask.

     Do you see any changes in the legality of Iodoral -- i.e. any danger that it could be restricted or by prescription only?

    Not any in the foreseeable future -- in two years when Codex comes back up then we may see restrictions similar to what Europe has and iodine most likely will be on that list.

     How does Iodoral absorb differently than Lugol's. Will a loading test reflect any difference depending on which you use?

    No difference except that Iodoral is designed to make it through the stomach intact. This is because at least 20% of people using Lugol's report stomach problems...either acidity or nausea. No has reported any of this with Iodoral that he knows of.

     What's the relation of iodine and high fat diets? Do those of us on traditional higher saturated fat diets need more iodine?

    Absolutely yes -- he said he thinks the relationship between fat, meats and breast cancer is basically an iodine problem. He went on to tell me about one of his patients that was diabetic. His doctor put him on a few fish oil tabs a day as he heard that helped with diabetes and his diabetes returned. Once they increased his Iodoral it went away. Sorry don't know what the increase dose was but he did say iodine if beneficial to diabetes.

     Could you say more on the relationship between thyroid meds and breast cancer? Should we ideally only be taking iodine instead of thyroid? Does it apply to all ages and sexes?

    Flechas said that he thinks that this is due to the cyclical nature of our endogenously produced hormones so they are pulsing and between pulses the breast is allowed to regain iodine. When we take thyroid the reloading between pulses isn't available to the breast cells. A 1979 study showed a 12% increase in breast cancer with women on thyroid medication. After 15 years it increased to 20%.
    This applies to all types of thyroid including compounded bio-identical, Armour, and Synthroid.

     Why does stopping iodine result in symptoms like burning mouth, pain in the thyroid area and swollen glands? When iodine is re-introduced these symptoms go away.

    He said he not ever heard of this before. But these sound more like the symptoms patients report early on in iodine usage. He couldn't add more to this.

     How does one determine if they have a defective NIS (sodium-iodide supporter)?
    Some people iodine load test at 80-100% the first time. He immediately suspects that they are automatically secreting all the iodine, as the cells are unable to take any in.
    He starts adding Vit C and salt and usually gets a very low loading test the second time around. 
    The other indicator is an iodine-loading test that refuses to every budge upwards. 
    He load tests every 3 months in these cases continuing to add Vit C. until he starts to see an upward trend.

     Constipation issue even with high Mg and Vit C -- so that it's either constipation or diarrhea.

    He really doesn't hear that complaint much and couldn't give me more help other than to say work on types of magnesium. He doesn't think it has anything to do with bromide in the colon cells.

     Some people experience hair loss on higher iodine doses. It's appears to really shut down estrogen or something. I'm having that problem and don't know if it's iodine related or something else.

    Flechas asked if I was growing new hair also and I said maybe I really couldn't tell a big difference in the volume of my hair but loads were in the drain every time I wash it. He said he's had a number of men with hair loss that show lots of new growth on iodine. He thinks I may be experiencing hormone fluctuations similar to post-pregnancy and the hair loss will stop. But I will continue to show lots of new growth.

    I also asked about the acne I get every time I stop Iodoral even for a short period. Was that bromide continuing to come out? He doesn't think its bromide but rather the skin cells and sweat glands re-orienting to higher iodine levels and a die off of bacteria. These cells turn over fast so even a few days off iodine can affect the bacterial balance. I mentioned that it appeared I needed little deodorant on iodine and he said he hears this often. 

     Selenium - are we overcautious with it like iodine? Especially if we aren't taking it in a salt form but rather a more bio-available form like high selenium yeast?

    He didn't know, as there aren't many studies. He did say that in areas where selenium is low when they add it the cancer rates drop. They add it in around 200mcg so he's assuming they may be conservative. He couldn't say more

     What exactly is Cogi-max (the silica supplement for nerves and brain) Does the mineral complex on the bottle mean high silica clay?

    Flechas said it's a silicon complex from opal. That form seems the most available to the body...then he gave me a paper by Abrahams on it.








    These are previous questions to Flechas from me and others that have come up on the iodine group.


    Question:  About how many people have results over 100% on the Iodine Loading Test?
     
    Flechas:  About one per week.  It is due to problems of organification.  Abraham is writing an article on this; it will be available in about two or 3 weeks.  Niacin is needed to organify iodine.  Person has a niacin deficiency.  To fix the problem, take 1000 mg/ day of non-flushing niacin for about a year.  (This niacin protocol can also help problems of low libido and high triglycerides.)
     
    Question:  Some of the people on our group are wondering why so few people have reached 90% saturation, even after 3-4 months on 50 mg Iodoral.
     
    Flechas:  You need a full nutritional program.  Also, obese people will need more.  And high fat diets (many people have quit their low carbohydrate diets) require more iodine since iodine is used to protect fats.
     
     I've also been rereading a couple of the Abraham articles, and noticed that the goitrogens -- e.g., perchlorate, fluoride, and bromide -- block the NIS receptor and interfere with iodine organification.  It may be that it takes longer now to accumulate iodine because our goitrogen levels are higher.

    --------------------


    1.  Why did I get different iodine saturation levels for the samples I sent FFP labs (82%) and Abraham (46%)?  
     
    Flechas:  Abraham has been in touch with me and we're working on that, trying to figure it out.  We are both rerunning the tests and we should have an answer in about a week.  Call me back next Thursday.  [Zoe:  My Flechas comments are not direct quotes since I couldn't write fast enough, but they are my attempt to give the gist of his response.]
     
     
    2.  Have you started writing your paper on iodine and detoxing metals?  
     
    Flechas:  I hope to write it in November on the plane to Brazil where I will be giving a lecture.
     
     
    3.  Does taking thyroid hormones affect iodine absorption?
     
    Flechas:  Yes.  They have known that for 50 years.  That is why radiologists require people to stop their thyroid hormone before RAI.  There were studies in 1979 that measured iodine in the thyroid.  Let's say it was equal to 9.  Then, the people were on thyroid hormones for two months, and the iodine in the thyroid measured 2.  (I'll send you the reference.  Abraham would have the current references on how iodine affects the NIS.)
     
            Women take iodine for FBD and get high TSH.  Their endocrinologist increases their thyroid hormone and the FBD comes back within a week or two.  
     
            Thyroid hormone inhibits the NIS.  Excess thyroid hormone heats up the body and robs the body of the ATP by making heat energy.  Thus, there is not enough ATP to operate the NIS.  [Zoe:  This doesn't make sense to me.  Yes, the TH makes more ATP and ATP is the energy that runs the NIS.  However, the heat comes as a side effect of the ATP increasing the various activities of the cell; it is not just creating heat for the sake of creating heat.]
     
            The thyroid hormone also inhibits iodine absorption by the breast.
     
            Iodine also increases the sensitivity of the thyroid hormone receptors.  Once the receptors become saturated with iodine, it is possible to decrease the thyroid hormone.  (Gave personal story of how he used to take Synthroid, but was able to eliminate it after supplementing with iodine.)
     
            Article by Clue on Thyroid Hormone and Iodine Receptors, referred to in article by Flechas on Orthoiodosupplementation.
     
            Iodine increases the sensitivity of ALL receptors in the thyroid hormone super family -- e.g., all the steroid hormones.  (Told story of woman taking large amounts of testosterone for several years.  When she added 12.5 mg Iodoral, she had to greatly reduce the amount of testosterone.)  Same with insulin, FSH, LH.  Some women restart menstruating after menopause.  (Gave example of 46 year old woman.)
     
            Peroxidase can attach I to any receptor in any cell.
     
     
    4.  How does iodine supplementation affect thyroid antibody levels?
     
    Flechas:  We watched the antibody levels carefully for several years when we first started supplementing with iodine.  We did not notice any changes.  They were essentially stable.  The antibody levels are not a result of iodine.  Iodine actually stabilizes the internal structure of the thyroid gland in both Graves and Hashimoto's.
     
            Autoimmunity is an effect of methylation -- not iodine levels.  If you increase the methyl groups, the antibodies will drop.  (Gave example of someone with TPOab = 900.  Gave methyl groups (e.g., 1 teaspoon per day of tri-methylglycine).  Antibodies dropped to 100 in one month.  Gave a couple more similar examples.)
     
     
    5.  How does iodine affect the adrenals?
     
    Flechas:  I don't really know what iodine is doing in the adrenals.  The adrenals are absorbing iodine, but I don't know what it is doing with it.  Often people can lower their adrenal hormones after supplementing with iodine.  Iodine increases the sensitivity to adrenal steroids.
     
            The ovary has the second highest ability to concentrate iodide.  It corrects problems in the ovaries like cysts, scar tissue.
     
     
    6.  How does iodine affect progesterone and estrogen?
     
    Flechas:  Progesterone increases the ability to absorb iodine.
     
            Iodide increases lactoperoxidase, which leads to a decrease in estrogen receptors, which leads to a decrease in sensitivity to estrogen.
     
     
    7.  Do you have any special recommendations for iodine/thyroid hormones for people who have had their thyroids removed?
     
    Flechas:  50 mg/day of Iodoral, plus thyroid hormones
     
     
    8.  Have you successfully treated patients with newly diagnosed thyroid cancer (those who have not yet had a thyroidectomy or RAI) with just iodine?
     
    Flechas:  No.  Because of malpractice issues, I wouldn't do that.
     
     
    9.  How do iodine and magnesium affect each other?
     
    Flechas:  Iodine increases T4.  T4 (or T3) controls magnesium absorption into the cells.  Article in the 1960s by Barton Artura on magnesium absorption.
     
     
    10.  How do iodine and Vitamin C affect each other?
     
    Flechas:  Vitamin C improves the NIS, enhances absorption of iodine.
     
     
    11.  Have you ever treated anyone who had iodine-induced hyperthyroidism? 
     
    Flechas:  I once treated someone with a goiter.  His T4 went from 8 to 14.  He didn't have Graves, just a huge goiter.  He became hyperthyroid.  
     
            People above age 60 often have nodules, which can become hyperactive with iodine.  That's why the doctor needs to check for nodules.
     
     
    12.  Can people call you directly to make appointments to talk about iodine related issues?
     
    Flechas:  No, I don't have enough time.  I save my time to talk to people who have taken the iodine-loading test from my lab.  I'll talk to anyone who has taken the iodine-loading test from my lab for free.  They just have to call and make an appointment.

    -----------------------
     

    What happens to thyroid hormone production in the presence of iodine supplementation? 

    Iodine supplementations should be prescribed only when iodine testing indicates iodine deficiency. Iodine testing kits can be ordered from my office (828 684 3233) by individuals or by medical practitioners. 


    Traditional medical literature indicates that patients who have thyroid nodules or thyroid goiter may have the potential to develop hyperthyroidism when supplementing with iodine. Hence, before commencing iodine supplementation, it would be advantageous for a person to have their primary care doctor order a thyroid ultrasound to rule out the possibility of pre-existing goiter or thyroid nodules. 


    The primary care doctor should also order thyroid lab work (to be used as a baseline) before prescribing iodine therapy and this lab work should be repeated and followed at regular intervals during the patient's iodine therapy. 


    For iodine therapy patients not also on thyroid hormone replacement therapy, adjustments to the iodine therapy should be made if signs of hyperthyroidism should occur. 


    Should signs of hyperthyroidism occur in patients who are taking thyroid hormone replacement therapy as well as taking iodine supplementation, the physician should first recommend an adjustment in the thyroid hormone therapy rather than in the iodine supplementation. 


    This adjustment in therapy is recommended because iodine is required not only by the thyroid but is required for the proper functioning of many other tissues. 


    The presence of pre-existing thyroid nodules or goiter does not preclude the patient from iodine supplementation therapy. In fact, in the extensive research with iodine therapy done in my office, I have seen many case of pre-existing thyroid nodules and goiter shrink in the presence of iodine therapy.


    http://www.helpmythyroid.com/iodine.htm


    -------------------------


     I took my mother to Dr. Flechas in Hendersonville MC yesterday. Flechas is one of the original iodine doctors working with Abraham's Iodoral and protocols.
    My mother has a small goiter that he told her should disappear with a few months on increased iodine.


    We spent about 1-½ hours with him and he had a number of interesting things to say about using iodine. I'm going to bullet some of them below and will get the rest later when I get home and re-listen to the tape.


    Lynn

      

     Cancer: Nurse that did the intake on my mom said she started working for Flechas after seeing him for her cancer. She had cancer tumors in her uterus and breasts. She had a hysterectomy and was scheduled for a mastectomy when she decided to see him. He put her on 100mg of Iodoral/day and within 2 weeks her tumors were shrinking. She canceled her mastectomy.  She did say she had horrible detox reactions in the beginning including acne and a horrible smell. That eventually went away.



     Cancer: Flechas told us about one young woman whose breast cancer had metastasized to her rib cage and left kidney. He started her on 100mgs of Iodoral and 21 days later her PET scan showed no cancer



     Thyroid hormone and breast cancer He said the studies are indicating that taking any type of thyroid (natural or not) will increase the risk of cancer as it blocks iodine absorption. He has had patients come to him with fibrocystic breasts and use iodine to take care of the problem. Then their primary physician will put them on thyroid hormone and the breasts will get painful again. He gradually takes all patients off thyroid as they become loaded with iodine.



     Mammogram vs. thermograms. Said the breasts stay hot for a few days after a mammogram. He believes in thermograms but only if you can consistently use the same place and the person knows how to read them. 



     (My question -- A lot of people are experiencing constipation with Iodoral and use Lugol's instead...what's causing that?) Flechas - Lugol's gives 20% of the people using it stomach problems and acidity and Iodoral absorbs better. The constipation problem is because iodine makes the cell membrane far more permeable to Mg causing it to be used up and not available to the colon cells. These cells need Mg to operate correctly. The solution is to use between 500-1500mgs of magnesium oxide.


     (My question - Does iodine block estrogen receptors? Flechas - No not block it reduces the number of receptors BUT it increases the receptivity of ALL hormone receptors on the cells. So estrogen is still available to the cell. (My question - Does it reduce or block the receptors for progesterone?) Flechas - Progesterone makes iodine more available to the cell.



     Testing for bromine and fluorine this will soon be available at his office and can be ordered just like the iodine-loading test is.  Of the two he feels bromine is far more dangerous.



     Cogimax - a silica based supplement from Optimox (Abraham's company that produces Iodoral) that he uses with Alzheimer's and ADD patients.   He said silica loading is extremely effective for brain problems.


     

    I posted this earlier today at work and couldn't recall some of the details. Just listened to the tape again and redid the notes. Here's a much more complete version. The last point on Vit C and elevated TSH is very interesting.
    Lynn


     Cancer: Nurse that did the intake on my mom said she started working for Flechas after seeing him for her cancer. She had ovarian cancer and numerous tumors in her breasts. She had a hysterectomy and was scheduled for a mastectomy when she decided to see him. He put her on 100mg of Iodoral/day and within 2 weeks her tumors were shrinking. She canceled her mastectomy.  She did say she had horrible detox reactions in the beginning including acne and a horrible smell. That eventually went away. Her loading test was very low and it took her a year to get it up.



     Cancer: Flechas told us about one young woman with stage 4 breast cancer that had metastasized to her rib cage and left liver. He started her on 100mgs of Iodoral and 21 days later her PET scan showed no cancer



     Thyroid hormone and breast cancer He said the studies are indicating that taking any type of thyroid (natural or not) will increase the risk of cancer as it blocks iodine absorption. He has had patients come to him with fibrocystic breasts and use iodine to take care of the problem. Then their primary physician will put them on thyroid hormone and the breasts will get painful again. He gradually takes all patients off thyroid as they become loaded with iodine.


    Talked about that when they are using radioactive thyroid to blast the thyroid gland but take patients off all thyroid meds 2 weeks before so the thyroid meds won't block the iodine. Didn't say how the research shows that this is the same in breasts -- except to mention patients who solve their fibrocystic problems then get put on thyroid meds by another physician and the breast problems return. He had a number of patients that this has happen to. (This very thing happened to me over the summer when a new doctor put me back on thyroid meds)


     Mammogram vs. thermograms. Said the breasts stay hot for a few days after a mammogram. He believes in thermograms but only if you can consistently use the same place and the person knows how to read them.  


    He said that you need to have all the thermograms together to compare them every time it's done. So don't skip around with different places.


     (My question- A lot of people are experiencing constipation with Iodoral and use Lugol's instead...what's causing that?)


    Flechas - Lugol's gives 20% of the people using it have stomach problems and acidity. Very few people have this happen on Iodoral and it absorbs far better. The constipation problem is because Iodoral is absorbed better and then creates more thyroid hormone. Thyroid hormone is "the guardian of Mg at the cellular level" so it's pushing magnesium into the cells lowering what's available to the colon cells. Colon cells need Mg to operate correctly. The solution is to use between 500-1500mgs of magnesium oxide.


     (My question - Does iodine block estrogen receptors?) 


    Flechas - No not block it reduces the number of receptors BUT it increases the sensitivity of ALL hormone receptors on the cells. So estrogen is still available to the cell but the drop in receptors keeps the tissues from being overstimulated.


    Eskin wrote this up at the April 2005 American Cancer Society conference.


    (My question - Does it reduce or block the receptors for progesterone?)


    Flechas - Progesterone makes iodine more available to the cell. 


     Hyperthyroid patients Graves disease patients and other with autoimmune disease take iodine also but use lithium and copper among other minerals (he didn't say) to decrease the overproduction of thyroid hormones. Iodine isn't reduced because it's the neutralizer of the thyroid.  Patients in a thyroid storm with high heartbeats are given iodine to calm it down as normal medical practice.



     Goiters In some patients with goiters the iodine will stimulate it to produce more thyroid hormone and the patient will suddenly look hyperthyroid with elevated T4 and losing weight. As the goiter shrinks this normalizes.

     

    Servus Mariusz



     Using temperatures to check thyroid.  Said Broda Barnes got it wrong because other hormones will also cause temps to be high or too low. 



     TSH accuracy. TSH is determined by the individual. Some people have elevated TSH on iodine. This is due to Vit C deficiency in the presence of iodine. He gives lots of Vit. C and the TSH goes down.

     

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