Re: You are arguing apples and oranges and doing a poor job of it

#107689,
There is little doubt that the surgical removal of a cancer tumor can easily cause it to metastasize.
This is the case with those I have known after undergoing this surgical removal.

In support of that viewpoint here are some examples.

"Surgical cure requires that a given cancer be removed without inadvertent spillage of cancer cells by technical error. Potential mishaps include pressing a ligature, while tying, against a protruding tumor and cutting into it; inserting a hemostat into the tumor area to gain control of an escaped short pancreaticoduodenal artery stump which has retracted; grasping a lymph node with forceps which invariably fragments it spilling any cancer cells it may contain; and injecting local anesthesia into or adjacent to a lesion for biopsy. If the lesion is a cutaneous melanoma or other cancer the resulting pressure may force cancer cells into the lymphatic or bloodstream. Other misadventures [??] include touching that portion of a biopsy needle which has been in the tumor and doing an intraoperative biopsy which allows blood or tissue fluid to flow out the opening from the tumor. Sensitivity to such dangers appears [?!] essential to avoiding spillage of cancer cells and obtaining maximal benefit from surgery.
The original abstract can be read at ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8331942&d opt=Abstract.
Fortner JG., Department of Surgery, Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center, New York, NY 10021., Source: J Surg Oncol, 1993 Jul, 53:3, 191-6


Some links on cancer metastasis (“tumor seeding”) due to biopsies/surgery..........

* karlloren.com/biopsy/index.htm
* karlloren.com/biopsy/p46.htm
* karlloren.com/biopsy/p31.htm
* ikp.unibe.ch/lab2/Seeding.html
* irus.rri.on.ca/~ddowney/cases/Case1.htm
* chclibrary.org/micromed/00069380.html#Definition
* e2med.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewArtDossier&DArtIdx=65358& DIssIdx=4428&DChapIdx=31649&&Random=27207&cfid=3544543 &cftoken=28004484
* healingdaily.com/conditions/biopsy.htm


AND.............
A very rare type of metastasis is caused by implantation or inoculation. This can happen accidentally when a biopsy is done or when cancer surgery is performed. In this case malignant cells may actually drip from a needle or an instrument (this is also called a "spill"). It is desirable, therefore, if possible and if the cancer is small to remove it completely at the initial surgery -- that is at the time of the biopsy..................
http://www.phoenix5.org/Basics/mets.html

http://www.springerlink.com/content/d3463827418064l4/


In a shocking irony, a growing body of scientific evidence has revealed that cancer surgery can increase the risk of metastasis.2
A group of noted experts in the field of surgery-induced metastasis stated that cancer treatment “…necessitates the surgical excision of the primary tumor in order to relieve the patient of the major tumor burden, which is the main source of mutating and metastasizing cells. However, along with its obvious benefits, the surgical procedure has been suggested to involve serious hazards as it releases tumor cells into the circulation or lymphatics, promotes the secretion of angiogenic and growth factors, and induces suppression of CMI [immune function]. These consequences synergistically facilitate the establishment of new metastases and the development of preexisting micrometastases. As cancer-related death is most commonly the result of metastatic disease, it is crucial to minimize this facilitation.”55.....................
http://www.lef.org/protocols/cancer/cancer_surgery_01.htm


For those of us in the know, (and I agree with Tony here) cancer tumors DO have a protective outer coating......this is how they are recognized as tumors because they are self-contained growths, just as a boil or cyst or fibroid also are self-contained within their growth area.

Chrisb1.

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