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Re: Health Canada issues warning about MMS
Forum: MMS - Miracle Mineral Solution Debate
 
  • Health Canada issues warning about MMS   jeffinvegas   4y
    • [Sorry for the inconvenience, the message bod...   davizona   4y
    • Hello Jeffnvegas, ... ... Your rebuttal is ”...   SilverFox   4y
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      SilverFox
      Re: Health Canada issues warning about MMS
      PM
      Date: 6/11/2010 5:07:43 PM   ( 4y ago )
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      Hello Jeffnvegas,

      Your rebuttal is "flush with errors and misunderstandings" too... This leads me to believe that your research and studies are lacking too.

      Your comment "MMS is a diluted sodium chlorite solution" is not correct. MMS is a 28% (by weight) sodium chlorite solution that is dangerous to handle and ship. This is an industrial strength concentration and concentrations like this have been used in industry for years. Over the years, safe handling procedures have been developed as well as safe shipping labeling and packaging. I believe the highest industrial concentration offered is a 35% solution, so the 28% is right up there with the most highly concentrated sodium chlorite solutions available.

      In contrast, a 2% sodium chlorite solution is considered dilute, is much safer to handle, and has fewer shipping concerns.

      Your comment about adding 8 - 12 ounces of water is in contrast to Jim Humbles recommendation of using half a cup (4 ounces). Since there is confusion over the mixing instructions, red flags go up. It would be much better to target a specific concentration that is known to be effective rather than using imprecise measurements of drops and variable amounts of dilutant.

      Your description of the chemical process reveals that you don't understand the reaction. A lot of testing has been done by industry to find the optimum ratio of activator to sodium chlorite for the various activating acids used. When you use too much acid (as the MMS protocol calls for) you end up with more impurities in the solution, and the solution produced is not as effective as one that is mixed in a proper ratio. The same goes for the activation time, but this variable seems to be less critical.

      When you mix sodium chlorite and citric acid (in the proper ratio) you form chlorous acid. This chlorous acid solution has some free chlorine dioxide, but is mostly made up of available chlorine dioxide. As the free chlorine dioxide comes into contact with organic material it quickly (within seconds or minutes at the most) breaks down to chlorite. The allowable safe amount of chlorite in water is 1.0 PPM. 1 drop of MMS in 8 ounces of water has about 9 PPM chlorite, so you are recommending that people drink water that has 9 times the amount of chlorite that has been determined to be safe for consumption. While not lethal, that is against the law...

      You are correct that MMS is not a drug. However, it is being advertised as a cure for malaria, HIV, H1N1, all cancers, and every other illness that people come down with. In the hands of a medical professional there is some evidence that oxidation therapy is beneficial, but MMS throws that out to people who are not trained in handling dangerous chemicals, not trained in medicine and are not capable of monitoring the body for oxidative stress. In addition there are no studies supporting the use of chlorine dioxide, or chlorous acid in the body. While MMS has a good anecdotal rate of success with self diagnosed problems, it almost always falls short if the illness has been diagnosed by a medical professional. In one long term animal study of chlorine dioxide in water, the time for the study had to be cut short because the animals contracted a pathogen that killed them.

      The reason that mouthwash and toothpaste solutions are available without medical supervision is because of the very dilute amounts of sodium chlorite that are used in these products, and the fact that they are not swallowed in any quantity. Mouthwash uses around a 0.1% concentration of sodium chlorite and toothpaste uses about a concentration of 0.005%. At those concentrations sodium chlorite is safe to handle.

      Sodium chlorite is a salt. It does not oxidize. You need chlorine dioxide or chlorous acid to oxidize. When you activate sodium chlorite with water, trace amounts of chlorine dioxide are released, but you still need to reach the proper CT value to disinfect water. When purifying "average" wilderness water, the CT = 1000. This means that if you mix your chlorine dioxide into the water to obtain a residual of 4 PPM free chlorine dioxide after 15 minutes of introducing the chlorine dioxide to the water, the water will be safe to drink in 250 minutes, or a little over 4 hours. Simply instructing to put 8 drops in a gallon of water and it will be safe in 12 hours does not hold up to scientific testing. In the best case it would purify the water in about 15 days, but to be on the safe side you should wait 30 days before drinking. Now that the pathogens are taken care of, we now have to worry about the disinfection by products. The chlorite concentration would be 13 PPM, which is above the lawful 1.0 PPM, so once again you are directing people to drink chemically contaminated water.

      If it is not against the law to give improper directions for water purification, it should be...

      Let's look at adverse effects.

      The adverse effects of chlorine dioxide include irritation to the airway including nose, throat, and lungs. Also, nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea. Higher levels of poisoning effect blood cell volume and make the blood cells fragile. High oral concentrations have an adverse effect on the enamal of the teeth. Dentists have observed this while using chlorine dioxide solutions to bleach teeth, and there are comments from people on CureZone that have also observed damage to their teeth.

      While it is interesting to compare apples and oranges, the fact remains that sodium chlorite and chlorine dioxide solutions cause adverse effects. In fact, the MMS protocol calls for increasing the amounts used until you reach a level where adverse effects are observed. Since you claim that MMS is not a drug, why are you bring the toxicity of drugs into the conversation? Perhaps it would be better to compare it to chlorine bleach, since they are from a similar family.

      I think we all understand that drugs are made from dangerous chemicals and are concentrated to the point where special instructions involving use and handling are needed and oversight is needed for proper monitoring. Wow, perhaps MMS does fit into the classification as a "drug..."

      You go on to promote the classic misunderstanding about MMS. Water treatment uses chlorine dioxide technology to purify water. MMS involves acidified sodium chlorite technology. While both of these share chlorine dioxide, they are very different.

      All of the studies you refer to involving chlorine dioxide and drinking water are based upon chlorine dioxide technology. Chlorine dioxide is produced by various reactions, then it is driven off into distilled water. This stock solution is used to meter the proper concentration of chlorine dioxide into the water used for the various tests. It is also the basic way chlorine dioxide is used for water purification.

      There are no studies involving adding citric acid to sodium chlorite, then giving that solution to animals or people.

      When you are purifying drinking water, you are interested in using a biocide that is capable of disinfecting the water. Acidified sodium chlorite solutions act as a biostat. Different technology for different uses. A biostat is used to keep food from spoiling for the time between processing and the customer purchasing and using it. In the case of food, a biocide is ineffective in keeping the food from spoiling. That is why a biostat is used.

      Tests have been done proving the effectiveness of chlorine dioxide solutions on hard surfaces. When you infect a cutting board with salmonella, you need a solution containing a concentration of 100 PPM free chlorine dioxide in contact with the hard surface of the cutting board for 60 seconds for a 5 log kill.

      How much MMS is needed for a similar effectiveness inside the body? Nobody knows because these tests have not been done.

      Industry has done the testing necessary to determine the effectiveness of chlorine dioxide. Jim Humble has not. Since the government prefers known results and shy's away from unknowns, they caution against the use of unknowns. If you are serious about convincing the Canadian agencies about the benefits of MMS, you should look at what then various industries have done in the way of testing and duplicate those tests on humans. Hopefully the results would be more positive than negative, and then you would have some grounds to stand on.

      I believe Dr. Hesselink is trying to do this in Africa. He has been at it for several months now, and while the initial reports are "hopeful," the use of acidified sodium chlorite solutions do not seem to be a miracle cure. Dr. Hesselink has the proper training to assess the adverse effects encountered when using these chemicals, and hopefully he understands the needs for properly documented testing and trials. If his results come back favorable, he may be in a position to challenge the authorities in Canada with something more than anecdotal comments collected from the various discussion forums and blogs.

      Your support of Jim Humbles Science suggests that he has some science to go on. Since it appears that he is unable to determine the difference between chlorine dioxide and acidified sodium chlorite, his science is on very shaky ground. You would be better off supporting Dr. Hesselink. He doesn't fully understand the difference either, but he is a lot closer to understanding the possibly reactions inside the body than Jim Humble has ever been. There is still a wide gap between what can theoretically happen and what actually happens inside the body. Until there are controlled tests done that show the effectiveness of acidified sodium chlorite, and until these tests are repeatable and shown to be safe for people, it would appear that the Canadian authorities are being responsible. If you would like their decisions to change, provide them with the test results that counteract their ideas. Anecdotal stories are interesting, but they are not enough.

      If they happened to read Jim Humbles book, here is an example of his flawed science. He mentions that he put 1 ml of stabilized oxygen into a glass and added 1.25 ml of acetic acid to activate it. He let the solution activate for 3 minutes, added 4 ounces of water then tested the solution for chlorine dioxide. He says he measured 1 PPM free chlorine dioxide.

      I invite you to duplicate this test at a laboratory that can measure chlorine dioxide concentrations. I come up with a little over 10 PPM every time I run the test. Jim Humble was off by a factor of 10 in his initial testing.

      He goes on to state that the chemical reaction within the body is completed in 12 hours. Unfortunately, testing by others has shown that chlorite has a half life of around 40 hours in the body. There is quite a difference between being completely eliminated from the body in 12 hours and having a half life of 40 hours. Jim Humble based his results on how he felt. The other test attached a radioactive isotope to the chlorine used in the chlorine dioxide and measured the actual amounts eliminated. I believe the casual observer as well as the scientist would agree that actual measurements carry more weight than an opinion.

      Recently Jim Humble has changed his opinion. He now thinks that the chlorine dioxide is all used up in 2 hours instead of the original 12 hours. However, once again there are no test results supporting his opinion.

      Since the foundation of the MMS protocol is based upon unsubstantiated and unrepeatable testing, I think Jim Humble is better off serving as Bishop of his new church. He needs to leave the proof of efficacy to those that understand chemistry and how the body works. Hopefully Dr. Hesselink and others like him will find a way to use these chemicals safely, and they may shed some light on the best use of these chemicals for oxidation within the body.

      By the way, the proper way to purify water in an emergency is to collect it from as clear a source as you can find, then filter it through a paper filter. Now you can mix 0.05 ml of 22.4% sodium chlorite with 0.05 ml of 26.9% HCl and add that to 1 gallon of water and let it sit for 10 hours. 15 minutes into the process you need to check to see that you have at least 1 PPM free chlorine dioxide. At the end of the 10 hours there should only be a slight odor, it is ready to drink and the chlorite levels are acceptable. To eliminate the odor and to remove some of the chlorite you can add 1 gram of ascorbic acid.

      Tom
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