SAFETY: ATTACK? ... Can I suffer gallstones attack while doing liver and gallbladder cleanse ?

Questions:

> Can I suffer Gallstones attack while doing liver and gallbladder cleanse ?
> Is it normal to feel pain when doing liver cleanse?
> What to do to relieve pain ?


Answer:

Most people diagnosed with gallstones (99%) can do liver cleanse, and not feel any pain.


BUT, few people may experience pain.

What is the most common cause of pain?



Pain may be caused by an inflamed gallbladder, gallbladder full of stones.

Pain may be caused by the stone that is too big to exit gallbladder (stone stuck in cystic duct)(In this case, another cleanse may cause more pain.)


Pain may be caused by the stone that stuck in common bile duct.
(In this case, another cleanse would cure problem.)

Pain may be caused by numerous stones inside gallbladder, or gallbladder that is too weak to push numerous stones out.
(In this case, another cleanse may cause more pain.)


Pain may be caused by numerous stones inside liver - liver is to congested to let stones pass out.
(In this case, another cleanse may push stones out)





What to do to relieve pain ?

Few possibilities:

1. Strong foot massage - reflexotherapy!
2. Acupressure
3. Acupuncture
4. Homeopatic remedies

5. One Cup of freshly pressed grapefruit juice with 1 tbsp of epsom salt
6. Lobelia herb
7. Castor Oil Pack
8. Shiatsu or Yumeiho therapy
9. Walking or running
10. Weight lifting
11. Sauna



Few examples:

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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gallstones/messages

To: gallstones@yahoogroups.com
From: echies@writeme.com
Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2001 15:51:28 -0000
Reply-To: gallstones@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [gallstones] What do I use to break up stones before flush.


I did my first flush last week. The morning of my flush after the
Epsom Salt at 6:00am I had a attack, then after the next Epsom salt
another mild attack. I passed about 200 pea and rice size stones
(Praise the Lord). That evening when I ate chicken soup(2 bowls) it
through me into a massive attack (threw up) my worst yet, I was in
the ER after the pain wouldn't go away after 4 hours. I think some
of the stones are to big and are getting stuck. Is their something I
could take to break them down before I do the flush again. I am a
breastfeeding mom so that may limit what I can take.

God Bless.
Thank you,
Heidi


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From: echies@writeme.com
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2001 12:30 am
Subject: Re: What do I use to break up stones before flush.

I did The Clark Flush , followed it to the letter. I don't know what
the problem really was. The week before I trying a different flush,
3 days only apple juice then olive oil and lemon juice. I had a bad
attack the day after that one to. I didn't pass any stone, that I
could tell. I'm a bit scared to try again. I could use all the
advise I could get. I mentioned the flush to Doctor, he looked at me
like I was crazy and said " they were probably not gall stones", HA!
I know they were. Heidi


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From: echies@writeme.com
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2001 2:41 am
Subject: Re: What do I use to break up stones before flush.



> Heidi, do you know the size of your stones?

I don't know, forgot to ask.

Heidi


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From: echies@writeme.com
Date: Sun Oct 7, 2001 8:40 pm
Subject: Re: What do I use to break up stones before flush.



I'm sorry it was taken so long to reply to your message. I was
hospitalized twice last week with gallbladder attacks and
unfortunately had it removed on Thursday. I will answer your
question in a hope it will help someone else.
The first attack lasted about 45 minutes and was on a scale of 1-10,
a 8. the second and third were milder 4 and the last after the
homemade chicken soup was a 7 that just would not stop, I believe it
lasted 7 hours. The later attack came after eating eggs which had
not been a trigger food for me before. The attack lasted 40 minutes
it was a 7, after recovering for 20 minute I drank 3 ounces of juice
only to get another attack. That one lasted 7 hours before I went to
the hospital and then 6 more after that.

I'm a 32 year old female
5 children our youngest being 9 months old
I'm half Swiss and half Spanish
5'2'' and 40 pounds over weight
My diet is very bad lots of fatty deserts
no glasses
One German Shepard.
Did not do the parasites cleanse yet.

I think I trying to much to fast without making enough dietary
changes did me in. The frequent attacks caused inflammation ( stones
stuck)and infection which led to more attacks. I do hope some one
can learn from my mistakes. If you have good information on what I
do now I would love the information. I know I traded one problem for
another. Thank you all for your help, Heidi


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From: "echies"
Date: Fri Oct 12, 2001 6:25 pm
Subject: Attack during flush (Heidi)



Trying to answer some questions. This is Heidi. My first flush I did was the
only apple juice for 3 days and then 3 ounces of lemon and 3 ounces of olive
oil. Before I did this flush I had only had 2 mild attacks, (only when I ate 2
or 3 really fatty meals in a row with little water). It was after the first
flush when my problems really started. I did not get stones out with the first
flush. The morning after the first flush when I ate for the first time I had
bad attack lasting 3-4 hours. It was bad but I could feel it as it moved down
my back and chest until it passed. I learned after that attack if I breathed
deep and relaxed it would go away faster, so ever attack after that one I would
lay in bed and relax until it was over. I don't believe fear was a part of it.
The two attacks that landed me in the hospital were after the 2nd flush (Clark
flush) I got rid of 200 small stones, but I was more susceptible to attacks for
some reason. The attacks that put me in the hospital were different, the pain
was not excruciating but, it just would not go away. I am a healthy person with
no other health problems. I wish I would not have had my gallbladder out, I
would have tried to flush more. I traded one problem for another, I would
recommend people to try the flushes and don't give up.

Heidi



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From: "Dax"
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 15:29:10 -0000
Subject: Re: [gallstones] Cola and Epsom Salts
Reply-To: gallstones@yahoogroups.com


> >Ira asks:
> >I therefore ask anyone who's reading: what evidence is there for the
claim
> >that Epsom salts open up (dilate) the bile ducts?


I can only answer this from personal experience...but then that is often far
closer the truth than scientific reasoning...:)


I did my 3rd flush using large quantities of Japps Health salts which
certainly cleared my bowels...but I had negative results regarding stones
(not a stone in sight...which kind of negates the olive oil soap theory!)
and was in terrific pain for a week afterwards. I decided to do another
flush a week later (still in pain) and did it with the Epsoms as I had
before. Successful results and the pain vanished. Now, I decided that I had
gotten a stone stuck in the Japps flush and that was why I was in constant
pain afterwards...believe me, I felt really bad.


Conclusion: I will never flush without my Epsoms again! No way do I want THAT pain again.


But, I also have to add that we are all different and I have no doubt that
just as some people have larger pores than others, so some have wider bile
ducts than others...in which case, there may be no need to dilate them
further. Y'know, scientists and pharmacists come up with all these amazing
drugs to cure this and that, but we can't ALL take the same drugs...they
have different effects on different people. My son can't take penicillin -
it would kill him - but I can. Same thing for the flush...it's a question of
finding out what works best for you. Some people have no need for the
Epsoms...I do.


HTH
Dax


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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gallstones/message/9506

From: "eulavye"
Date: Tue Mar 12, 2002 5:37 am
Subject: gallstone flush



hi there people! just want to share my experience with you guys and
its not so ok. i just had a gallstone flush last satruday, march 10
and everything was ok until i woke up at 4am and im having an
attack. i felt very awful. are you suppose to have an attack while
doing the cleanse?

i felt awful the whole day of monday. the whole day, i was in pain.
i have to take pain relievers so the pain would go away.

the flush was successful. i had passed out stones but not too many.
maybe around 300 stones and im afraid to repeat it again as i might
suffer an attack again while doing the flush.

the epsom salt was awful. can anyone sugegst an alternative for that?

the olive oil and grapefruit juice was ok. easier to swallow than
the epsom salt with water.

im still not ok while making this email. i feel weak from the flush
i have done sunday evening.

just want to talk with someone to assure me that im doing the right
thing instead of surgery


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http://curezone.com/forums/message.asp?ForumID=4&MessageID=587&P=10


One message (attack when cleansing) from gallstones@yahoogroups.com:

===========================
From: "michelevaudin" < michele_vaudin@in-press.co.uk>
Date: Mon Feb 25, 2002 12:24 pm
Subject: 1st Flush and now scared to do this again!



Hi guys,

Well...what a weekend I had! Did my first ever Liver Flush on Friday
night using Dr Clark's recipe but upped the oil to 3/4 cup and equal
amounts of grapefruit juice as well as having 5 TBSspoons of Epsom
salts. (had previous dealings with Epsom Salts and knew I'de need
a 'boost' to help things move along!)


Was fine all night and decided to lie first on my back for the 20
minutes and then on my left for about 10 minutes, on my right for
another 10 minutes and then fell asleep on my back.

By 4am I started passing 'stones' and sludge and was all pretty
painfree. The stones were whole when they came out but as soon as I
tried to pick them up they easily 'dissolved' into 'squidge' as I
examined them. I've been taking Gold Coin Grass and Coptis for the
past 3 weeks as part of my juicing routine and feel this was
responsible.

The stones were green inside and therefore presuming these were
cholesterol stones from the liver.


As I continued taking the Epsom Salts at the prescribed times, I kept
passing various sized 'stones' and later on loads of sludge and sand-
like grit.FANTASTIC!!!


But...by 10.30am I was in absolute agony. I have never had an attack
this painful in my life. I have a calcified stone of 17mm in my
gallbladder and knew full well this was the culprit to the pain. I
was throwing up and writhing around for 5 hours and if a surgoen was
in my bedroom I would have begged him through tear-stained eyes to
cut me open to end the pain.If it wasn't for my boyfriend being there
and clearing up after me (vomitting water, bile, grapefuit and oil),
helping me between bedroom and bathroom I really dont know what I'de
have done.


The last one I had which even came close to this was on holiday in
Greece last year after eating and drinking everything and anything
and ended up with an attack. This weekend's one by far beat that!

By 3.30pm I woke up after getting an exhausted hours sleep and the
pain had subsided slightly. I just sat on my bed and wept. I am
absolutely gutted that it caused this attack as although I
desperately want to continue flushing to get rid of all the other
stuff in my liver (I was sooooo pleased to see what I was passing!)
and I knew it could be months/years before passing the 'biggie', but
I cannot do another cleanse and risk undergoing that again.


Bt 9 that night, the attack came back (although not with the same
vengeance) and lasted until 7.30am the next morning. Ended up in the
bath from 3 to 5am to try and ease the pain a little.
Has anyone who has a calicified stone in their GBs ever had an attack
brought on by doing the flush?


What on earth am I going to do now????

Please, any suggestions I'de greatly appreciate. I'm off work for 2
weeks due to having a ganglion operation and therefore will not be
able to read any of your postings after tues afternoon. (crap timing
as usual).

With much anticipation, still sore and deeply gutted!

Michele


http://curezone.com/forums/message.asp?ForumID=4&MessageID=587&P=10

Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 18:23:31 -0500
Subject: Re: [gallstones] Any Bad Experiences Doing Flush?
Reply-To: gallstones@yahoogroups.com


I had one bad experience, I did 3 flushes and the last one I got a horrible
gallbladder attack and it was horrible because I started vomiting and it was
just really gross., but my first 2 were ok. I would suggest putting the
olive oil and juice in a blender first, it mixes better than just stirring,
I also have heard of a flush using cola, and I heard this one actually works
better, and I also heard that using turkey rhubarb capsules helps soften the
stones before flushing. Good luck! (I ended up getting my gallbladder
removed after all, the flushes just werent working for me)

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