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  Preventing gallbladder surgery, cleansing gallstones !

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Testimonials from archives of 

gallstones@onelist.com

PART I

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From: eczemapsoriasis@onelist.com

Message: 1
   Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 22:07:39 EST
   From: Linkay4000@aol.com
Subject: Re: liver cleanse

i just completed a liver cleanse and  I got out about 500 stones. I have had 
FMS and I think I feel better after doing this. I am anxious to  do more. I 
believe that they recommend that you do them at two week intervals. The only 
changes I made were to add some fresh lemon juice to the epsom salts.  This 
really does work!

Good luck!  linkay4000@aol.com

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Message: 3
   Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 09:28:00 -0800 (PST)
   From: Suzanne Bembridge <sbembridge@yahoo.com>
Subject: Suzanne's Story


Hi,

I am a 44 year old female.  I have had 2 children and
I am at least 30 lbs overweight.  During a recent
physical, I mentioned to my doctor that I'd been
getting stomach pains off and on, usually after meals,
for a year and a half.   She suspected gall stones and
sent me for an ultra sound.  The lab  report confirmed
it.  I had one gallstone in the neck of the gall 
bladder.  It claimed that the gall bladder walls were
not thickened nor were the bile ducts dilated.  It did
say that my liver was slightly enlarged.   

Being the internet geek that I am, I proceeded to find
all the information I could about it.  I was more
concerned about the liver than I was the gall bladder
because the gall bladder could be taken out, the liver
I needed to make healthy.  

After reading for hours and hours, I came to the
conclusion that I really should do everything I could
to keep my gallbladder and I needed to make my liver
healthy again.  I believe I have what is called a
fatty liver (one enlarged from globs of fat).  When I
first 
read about the flush I was skeptical.  I read
more...and more.  I was concerned about 
stones becoming stuck in the bile ducts but after
reading all the literature and letters I felt 
there was no more risk from the flush than eating a
piece of pizza.

I also began to change my lifestyle.  I must loose
weight.  I have set a goal of being down 
to my ideal weight range by March 1st of 2000 (I need
to loose about 25 lbs).  I've all but eliminated 
anything with fat in it except lean meat.  I'm eating
5 fruits and 5 vegetables every day.  I 
drink tea instead of coffee (black) and drink lots of
filtered water.  I've given up chocolate 
(gulp!!!) and sweets.  I'm walking 3 or more Kms every
day.  

On Dec 2, I did the flush.  I didn't do a bowel
cleanse first mainly because my system is regular and
I don't believe I have a problem.  I'm sure others
would disagree but I was too anxious to do the flush. 
Early in the day I only ate "no fat" food until 2pm. 
I sipped warm lemon water (warm water with a twist of
real lemon) until 6pm just so I didn't feel thirsty.  
At 6 pm I drank the 1 tblsp of epson salts in a glass
of water (the stuff is gross - Does anyone have a
substitute?????) At 8 pm I drank another dose of epson
salts.  By 9:30 my system was pretty much cleaned out.
 I'd been to the bathroom 2 or 3 times.   I got ready 
for bed.  At 10 pm I drank the olive oil and freshly
squeezed grapefruit mixture from the jar I used to
shake it.  It was good...like a creamy fruity shake. 
I laid down immediately and tried not to move.  I'd
forgotten to take the sleeping pills but decided I
have to forgo it as I didn't want to get up.  I woke
up at 11:30pm with the need to eliminate.  No globs
floating 
yet.  I did feel woozy though..not sick, just woozy. 
Went right back to bed and slept until 
about 5am.  Immediately went to the bathroom and
eliminated the start of many green 
colored blobs floating on the surface.  Some were 1/2
inch (about 1 cm), many were 
smaller, like small peas.  There was at least 50 in
that first elimination.  I went back to bed 
elated to know that it had worked.  I laid there until
6am and got up and took another dose of epson salts. 
I decided it would be my last dose because of the
taste.  I'm not sure what that last one does anyway. 
Over the course of the day many more stones came
out...and lots of  chaff.  I drank some juice at about
9am and then had some rice at noon.  I never felt sick
to my stomach nor did I have any pain.  I just felt
kind of wiped out.  My bowels slowed down after that
but the next day, I eliminated 4 more larger blobs. 
These ones were 
tan in color and more like hardened clay.  I didn't
see any more after that.

I've felt really good since then.  I want to do
another flush after I've lost another 10 lbs.  I
haven't been to my doctor yet to discuss the lab
report but I wanted to do the flush BEFORE she had a
chance to tell me not to.  Plus, I decided to save
some of the stones 
and show her.  I'm hoping she'll offer to have them
analyzed.  She probably won't be impressed but it's
not her body.  I don't want to upset her either
because I do need her.  

Anyway, that's my story.  It's nice to know others are
out there are having the same problems!

Thank you for the forum.

Suzanne

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Message: 1
   Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 20:23:09 -0700
   From: "Diane Patterson" <usana4life@webcombo.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Cleanses really eliminating stones?

Jane
The gold coin grass isn't bad to take and it doesn't cost that much. You
take about 1/2tbsp to a tbsp each morning. I've read a few stories on the
net that had really big stones and when they tried the cleanse they didn't
get any stones but after going thru a bottle of gold coin grass they had a
bunch of stones come out. You can read their stories on
www.sensiblehealth.com
    When I said that no one had a bad experience I was talking about the
500+ people that Dr Hulda Clark had do the cleanse/flush and non of them had
any bad experiences. I would really recommend reading her book "cure for all
diseases" the liver/gallbladder cleanse starts on page 553. I've tried other
cleanses without success. I was very skeptical when I heard of this one but
I had read so many success stories about this one and I knew if I didn't do
something soon I would have to do surgery.
    I don't know if you read the ingredients to this particular flush but
they are pretty safe for most people. I have been told that I can even do
this while pregnant but to just wait tell the fetus as reached 16wks. If it
came down to the pain killers or the cleanse before then the cleanse would
be recommended.
    If your worried about how you would react you could try using half the
recommended dose. The only thing I could see that people might be concerned
with is the ornithine capsules which is a natural amino acid that helps you
sleep.
and maybe the epsom salt. the fresh grapefruit and cold pressed olive oil
doesn't seem to bother most people. Unlike most cleanse/flushes this one you
don't have to fast for days or even 24 hours. Some people said that they
feel a little sick the next day. I didn't. I found that I just wanted to
stay close to bathroom.
    After my first cleanse with no results I really didn't believe that much
would happen with this one but I was very surprized and glad that I gave it
a try. The book tells you how to do it step by step and it was so easy. I
wish that I would have learned about this 5 years ago. The amazing thing is
that a lot of people in their 70's and 80's have done it without getting
sick and had great results. It does recommend that you do a parasite cleanse
first. The book said that the only people that felt ill were those that
didn't do the parasite cleanse first.
    I hope that you'll be able to find something that works for you. Their
are certain herbs that also help but I can't remember all of them.
D

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Message: 3
   Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 00:17:34 EST
   From: Jomma@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: Cleanses really eliminating stones?

Hi all, 
Just a note about my experiences.  I have had tons of bowel problems....and I 
have been shrugged off by most doctors as "Crohns Disease" or "Irritable 
Bowel Syndrome", both of which have no cure and very little help available.  
I also had a terrible endocrine disorder, a borderline diabetic state 
(resulting in Polycystic ovaries), lowered immunity......etc.  I researched 
so many things and tried so many remendies....the best one, was the day I 
gave up sugar.  If there is a thing such as a sugar allergy, I must have it. 
 Regardless, I have had liver pain and yellowness of the skin on and off.  
One ultrasound showed no stones.  HOWEVER, my brother had terrible pain 
(thought he was dieing) and went to the hospital on three occasions. All 
three times they told him his gallbladder was fine.  The fourth time he 
refused to leave until they found out what was wrong with him or put him out 
of his misery.
His internist came did a fourth ultrasound and asked when he had his 
gallbladder removed.  When he said he hadn't, they operated immediately.  His 
gallbladder's blood supply had been cut off by massive stones and shriveled 
up to nothing. 

Some dependable ultrasound.

Also, I did three cleanses and never got anything out.  Frustrated, I was 
lead to Julia and her wondrous Gold Coin Grass (however, apple juice all day 
works well too!)
A congested liver packed with stones or debris will not eliminate stones.
This is important! I ate on apple products all day.  I drank tons of apple 
juice.  
AND the first time I took the epson salts I passed stones! This was even 
before I drank the oil concoction.  The next morning I passed even more and I 
felt GREAT!
So, if the diet and cleanse are to blame...I am here to tell you , it is not 
the oil, because I passed stones before I even drank the oil and 
grapefruit/lemon.

Just my two or three cents,
Jomma

 

Message: 3
   Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 10:52:52 EST
   From: Jomma@aol.com
Subject: Re: A "Healthy" Experience

I feel the same way!  I, too had put my entire trust into physician after 
physician seeking out some alternative or answer to my health problems.  I 
was diagnosed as having endometriosis and surgery was the only answer.  
(however, women who had the surgery suggested it only helped for a few months 
and then it was back to the operating room.  Usually ONCE a year!!!!!!!)  
A few years later, a modified diet, a yearly parasite and liver 
cleanse.......and life has never been better!
Jomma


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[gallstones] Digest Number 157
Date: 28 Nov 1999 11:02:27 -0000
From: gallstones@onelist.com

Message: 2
Date: 27 Nov 1999 12:05:43 -0000
From: greg@radcom.co.il
Subject: Stones: from Liver or from gallbladder

Hi 

can anybody answer - I was re-reading Dr. Hulda book" The cure for all diseases" 
about the liver flush and it said that gallstones are removed from the liver. 
In another place I read the explanation for why Liver flushes work - when we 
drink olive oil a gallbladder squizzes itself and the gallstones are then thrown 
out thorugh commonn bile duct.
What I could not understand is how is it connected to the gallstones in the 
liver? Why would they be removed if it is only the gallbladder (and not liver)
that squizzes itself and thus rids itself of stones?

Just finished 3d flush and this time got about 200 green stones. In previous 2 
I had respectively 85 and 65. Now wondering if they came from the liver or
gallbladder.
I have had very yellow-slightly orange skin on my hands (esp. palms) for the
past 10 years and 
so far after 3 flushes this has not changed. Anybody else also have yellow
palms?

thanks
Greg
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>From gallstones@onelist.com
 
Message: 1
   Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 07:27:09 -0700
   From: JK Mason      mmary@gateway.net
Subject: A Healthy Experience

A few months ago, my wife (who is 36 years old) had a serious
gallbladder attack.  It was a devestating experience for our entire
family.  She was bedridden for days.  After many tests and expensive
procedures (costing over $2,000), we were told that she had a problem
with gallstones and that her gallbladder should be removed.  In
retrospect, when I review what happened, I feel that we were "milked"
during the diagnosis.  (I feel this way because early in the process, my
wife talked to a friend, who is a medical transcriptionist, and she said
right away that the attack was related to gallstones.  But did the
doctors tell us anything before all the costly diagnostic procedures
were done?  No, they did not.)

We were given the name of a surgeon; we went to see him.  When he came
into the waiting room and saw that I was there with my wife, he didn't
even introduce himself to me.  It was as if he was disturbed that he
would have to lie to a healthy person along with a distressed one.  He
told us there were only 3 options to consider:

1) Medicine to dissolve the stones
2) Ultrasound to "blast" the stones apart
3) Surgery to remove the gallbladder

During the "consultation" He mixed up his statistics, first telling us
that only 13 percent of the people would have success using medicine to
dissolve the stones.  He told us that the medicine was controversial and
not very effective.  When we asked for more detail, he replied that it
only works in 1 out of 13 people (I didn't need the high-level
mathematics I learned in college to know that 1 out of 13 is different
than 13 percent!).  He was callous to the fact that accurate statistics
are important to people considering surgery to remove organs from the
body.  He told us that trying to dissolve the stones would be very
costly; that it would take years, and that it probably would not work.  

He then told us about another method that would "explode" the stones
using ultrasound.  He said that this method was also controversial and
that although it was approved in Europe, the procedure was not yet
approved here in the US.  He said there were serious health risks
associated with this method, and implied that we would have to fly to
europe or something.

He said that most people opted for surgery to remove the gallbladder,
and that surgery was by far the best way to solve the problem.  He said
the surgery was routine and that he did many every week.  It was simple
and quick.  To add insult to injury, he even bragged that he had gotton
so good with the procedure, that he could remove a gallbladder in just
22 minutes.

At the end of the "consultation" I asked him if there were any ways that
she could modify her diet to help the problem.  His reply was: 

"Eat all the fatty foods you want, if you don't take out the
gallbladder, you will end up in the emergency room soon and it might be
fatal at that point.  Do you want to get on the schedule for next
Wednesday?  I can do it then."

We were devestated when we left.  For me, the meeting was quite
dramatic, as when I was a child 35 years ago, I used to go on house
calls with my Father, who was a physician (along with both of his
brothers).  Back then, doctors would go to the house of an ailing person
to help them.  To me, this doctor had the bedside manner of a mosquito. 

We felt that her life was in danger if we did not do something, yet she
did not want someone to remove something from her body.

We called about 5 hospitals in different towns and found out that a
gallbladder operation costs between $8,000 and $10,000 and takes about
30 to 45 minutes with laproscopy.  It is amazing how much these guys
make for so little work, but this explains the lies.  

At that point, little did we know that we could spend less than $10 on a
more effective procedure that would leave everything intact (no, this is
not an advertisement!)

When I told the story to my cousin, he told me about a book that had a
lot of good information about healthy living.  He said he thought there
was something in the book about gallstones but he wasn't sure what it
was.  We got the book and found out about the apple juice procedure.  We
both tried it and it worked for me but not my wife.  She tried it again
a few weeks later without success.  She then tried the gold coin grass
next for 2 weeks, followed by the apple juice procedure again; this time
using a grapefruit and lemon at the end.  This time it worked!.  She
intends to continue doing the flushes every few months for awhile.  

You might think that this real-life horror story was bad for us, but we
now feel very different about it.  We feel that although we have dodged
a bullet, actually something very good has happened to us.  "Dr. Chop
Chop" (we now affectionately refer to him this way) actually helped us
in an indirect fashion.  Until this incident, we did not eat healthy,
and we were overweight.  Since the meeting with Dr. Chop Chop, we have
started eating healthy foods and have both lost significant amounts of
weight (myself 30 pounds so far).  

So, although this "doctor" first appeared to us as a monster, it turns
out that scary Dr. Chop Chop has actually helped us improve our life! 
He uses a method that is quite different than what my Father would have
used, but it works and has ultimately helped us become healthier!

The book is: "God helps those who help themselves"
 by Hanna Kroeger (ISBN 1-883713-11-0)

JK Mason

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Subject: GALLBLADDER CLEANSE
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 11:24:21 -0500
From: "Jim & Fay Themelis"  <jjt@mich.com>
To: <mycleanse@geocities.com>


RE:  GALLBLADDER CLEANSE INFO

I am 34 yrs. old and have 2 kids.  My problem began 1 yr. ago with "stomach
pains".  I went to the doctor who prescibed Prevacid to help with the
pains.  It worked for a while but then the pain in my mid-section ( just
below the sternum slightly to the right ) continued to increase to a
constant tight full feeling.  Whatever I ate would bother me and the tight
full feeling would increase for a couple of hours and then it would subside
slightly after that.  I went back to the doctor, who then recommended an
abdominal ultrasound.  I did the ultrasound and it showed 3 gallstones
partially blocking the cystic duct and the gallbladder itself being
slightly inflammed.  I was then referred to a G.I. specialist who
recommened my gallbladder being removed.  I then went home and immediately
went on-line to discover if anyone had ever been able to pass gallstones
with a natural home remidey.  I came across several articles about doing a
gallbladder flush with olive oil.  Here is the treatment that I used.
A light breakfast (fruit bar & skim milk)
A light lunch (salad & fruit with a slice of bread)
No food after 2:00 p.m.
At 9:30 p.m. the following mixture:

1/2 cup extra virgin olive oil cold pressed
1/2 cup pasturized apple cider
Shake well.  Drink all of it 30 minutes before going to bed.
Lie on your right side all night and try to relax.

At 5:00 a.m. I went to the bathroom and passed 8-10 green stones mixed in
with my stool.  I didn't feel very well, a little nausa and some abdominal
cramping.  The stones were about the size of a dime.  I went back to bed
and laid down on my right side again.  I felt some cramping and some
gurgling movement and sounds in my stomach and abdominal area.  About 6:30
a.m. I went to the bathroom again and I couldn't believe what I saw.  About
4 to 5 DOZEN green gallstones floating on the surface.  There was very
little stool but A LOT of green stones, the biggest one was about the size
of a quarter.  I felt much better after that and I went back to bed again. 
I woke up about an hour later and had a little coffee and nothing else.  I
just relaxed on the couch for a few hours and felt pretty good.  The pain
and tight full feeing was gone and I was just tired and sluggish.  I ate
some chicken soup and crackers for lunch around 1:00 p.m.  I went back to
bed for a nap and when I woke up I headed for the bathroom again.  Another
dozen dark green stones had passed with very little stool.  I FELT
TERRIFIC!!!!!  The rest of the day I took it easy and slept like a baby
that night with NO pain or tightness in my abdomen.  The next day I felt
GREAT and was still in a state of shock because there was no more pain!  I
did pass another 6-8 stones and also another 3-4 the following day.
I can't tell you enough that if you have gallbladder problems or are faced
with surgery like I was to give this home remedey a try first.  I will NOT
be having surgery and I plan to do this treatment again in two weeks.
I hope this helps someone else out there with similar results!
Johnna

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Story from:
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/8777/gall.html 




               How I Removed My Own Gallstones
  
                     At Home, Overnight
                       by Dann McCreary 


As you might imagine, there is a bit of a story to this...
Some years ago, my wife Pam had a stomach problem for which she visited a
doctor. In the course of treating her problem, the doctor took some ultrasound
images and noticed the presence of gallstones.

This was a surprise to us because the gallstones were completely asymptomatic,
causing her no pain or trouble of any kind. Because they were not a problem, the
doctor recommended no treatment.

Fast-forward several years to about 1990. I had just begun working for a new
employer when Pam began to experience some pain from the gallstones. Although
she had never had them treated before, the insurance company considered them to
be a pre-existing condition because they had merely appeared on the earlier
ultrasound image!

We were distressed, wondering what to do; gall bladder surgery at the time was
expected to cost us about $15,000 which we could in no way afford. Sounds like
God let us down with the timing on that one, right? Wrong! We talked to friends
and relatives about this; my Aunt then mentioned the problem to a neighbor; the
neighbor gave my Aunt a booklet; my Aunt mailed it to us. The booklet described
a home remedy for removing gall stones.

Briefly, the remedy involves going on a fruit-juice fast for several days in
order to clear the bowel. On the evening of the treatment day, you lie on the
couch and drink a pint of cold-pressed olive oil, divided into eight doses, each
dose chased by two tablespoons of fresh-squeezed lemon juice to kill the taste.
The eight doses are taken at fifteen minute intervals.

After the last dose, you go to bed, being sure to lie on your right side. (I
think that way the olive oil pools at the entrance to your gall bladder duct,
and when the oil causes the bladder to contract, some of the oil and lemon juice
enter the gall bladder where they can soften and lubricate the stones.)
Somewhere in the middle of the night you will wake up with a powerful urge to
evacuate, and you will pass the stones. (They just squirt out through the gall
bladder duct like so many watermelon seeds!)

We were of course somewhat skeptical; for due diligence, we went to a seminar in
San Diego at which a doctor presented information about another experimental
non-surgical protocol which used ultrasonic sound to shatter the stones,
allowing the fragments to be passed out of the system through the gall bladder
duct. This experimental treatement cost somewhat less; about $5,000 total. I
questioned the doctor carefully as to just how flexible the gall bladder duct
might be. He indicated that it was very flexible, but that irregularly shaped
stones could sometimes become lodged in it causing pain and requiring surgical
removal.

Hearing that the gall bladder duct was very flexible, and thinking about the
lubricating effect of olive oil, we were encouraged to proceed. However, to be
sure that there were no serious negative effects of the treatment, I decided to
be a "guinea pig" and take the treatment myself before having Pam try it. What a
surprise! The night of the treatment I passed about two cups of
chloresterol-based gallstones! I had no idea they were in there! (I still have
some in my freezer if you would like to see them).

About a month later, Pam worked up the courage to try the treatment. She also
passed many stones, and has had no gall bladder trouble since. Total cost of the
treatment? Not $15,000, not $5,000, but less than ten dollars for all the olive
oil and lemons. You might want to budget somewhat more to cover the fruit juice;
however, because you are fasting, you will save it on food anyway.

We are very thankful to God for bringing this remedy to our attention, and we
hope there may be others who may be able to benefit from what we learned.

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/8777/gall.html 

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From: hyperspeed@altavista.net
Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 10:08:37 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [gallstones] Finally got them out



I am a 23 year old guy that recently spent two days
hospitalized because my pain in the liver area had
gotten worse and I also often woke up dizzy and in
pain in the mornings.

I have also constantly during the past 5 months had
 back and neck pain and a very strange pain
in my right arm. My mother found a recipe in some
old natural medicine book for gallstone flushing and
I immediately said I did not want to try it and
that I don't believe in that kind of natural medicine
stuff.


Surfing the web some day later I found this
recipe with olive oil and lemon juice so I decided
to try it but since we don't have Epsom salts here
in Sweden I used fresh apple juice instead.


I drank the olive oil/lemon juice the night before I
went to the hospital and thought that if any gallstones
will come out I want the doctor to take a look at them.

The next day when I was in the hospital I went to the
bathroom in the morning but there were no gallstones
in the stool so my immediate reaction was that it didn't
work and I thought that I did not have any stones and that
the method must be some kind of hoax.

In the evening,
when I was lying in the hospital bed I felt some pressure and
pain from the lower art of my stomach so I went to the toilet
and I was shocked when I saw my stool, there was about 200
gallstones in my stool, all floating at the surface of the water.

My first reaction was to ask the nurse to come in and take a look
but I realized it would have been rather sick to ask someone to
look at your stool so I took a plastic cup and collected about 15
gallstones from the stool, the largest stone was about 2.5 cm in size.

The next morning when the doctors had their morning round and
they came in to my room I showed them the stones and immediately
one of them(who was a professor in medicine) said that it was
impossible so I got rather upset and asked them to send the gallstones
to their lab for an analyzes and they said I was ridiculous and
the professor said ironically to me that it was a medical sensation
and that maybe I should call the press, at that point I was very upset
and told him that with that attitude maybe he shouldn't be practicing 
medicine. They left my room after deciding to give me a CT-scan
and a coloscopy. Later during the day one of the doctors that had
been in my room that morning came up to me and said that they had agreed
to send the gallstones for analyzes. During that day I had the CT-scan
and the coloscopy without any results so I was released from the hospital
and am now waiting for a letter from the hospital about the
gallstone - analyzes.

It will be very interesting to see what their next
move will be in my case, if they will ignore me after sending me the
results from the gallstone -analyzes or if they will follow my case up and
make some changes in their system.

I am now waiting one more week to do my second flush because I still
have some back-pain and pain from the liver area, but my pains are nothing
compared to what they used to be before the first flush.

I am spreading the word about this to my friends and relatives and now
everybody want to try this flushing thing, I really hope that finally
there will be a mass of people that have done this flush and that can put
some pressure on the hospital bureaucracy to make some changes in their
narrow-minded system.

Best regards Boris
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Message: 1
   Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 08:11:48 -0400 (EDT)
   From: hyperspeed@altavista.net
Subject: To Kelly Re: Digest Number 132

The gallstone cleanse is not harmful unless you have kidney problems of
some kind because the kidneys have to take a pretty heavy load during the
cleanse, it is wisely to do the kidney cleanse before the gallstone
cleanse. Also remember that after several flushes you will no longer get
stones from the gallbladder, you might not even have had any stones in your
gallbladder, but the stones that you will flush out are dark green and come
from the liver, in the medical world they are known as intrahepatic stones,
stones that are formed in the liver and get stuck in the bile ducts of the
liver. The flow of bile does not work properly, the metabolism does not
work properly and that results in poor digestion and metabolism. These
stones are not hard calcified stones that people who have gallstones in the
gallbladder have but these stones are soft and are made up of 95% pure
cholesterol and bile salts. Remember that the liver is the human #1
metabolic organ and it cannot work properly when it is clogged with stones. 
When I went on a ultrasound the doctor said I have fat-structures in my
liver(fatty liver) and it practically means that the liver is full of
stones, though they are not visible on ultrasound because they are
"fatstones". If fat was visible on ultrasound the doctors would never be
able to look through the fat-layer all humans have on their stomach.
Doctors might also argue that if there were any stones in the bile ducts
then they even if they do not show up on ultrasound or x-ray must cause the
walls of the bile ducts to become unsmooth and lumpy because stones are
stuck there, but these stones are soft and fit perfectly in the bile ducts
like a hand in a glove.
After my 4 cleansings I have lost 40 pounds and my digestion and metabolism
 hasn't been this good since I was a child. I really recommend it to
everyone who has not tried it. Try it Kelly! you will not regret it. 


------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------


Message: 1
   Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 09:37:36 -0400
   From: Alexandra 
Subject: RE: Hello

Hi Kim,

I've done the cleanse 4 times and gotten a lot of stones out. I was advised
urgent surgery last October, but my pain has gone away and my digestion
keeps getting better ;-).

Alexa


------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 23 Jun 1999 22:11:47 -0000
To: gallstones@onelist.com
From: jansp@gte.net
Mailing-List: list gallstones@onelist.com; contact
Subject: [gallstones] It WORKED!!! OK - got some questions:

From: jansp@gte.net

Hi All - I'm amazed - I'm truly amazed... did the organic apple cider first
(one gallon a day first two days, 3/4 gallon the third before doing the
epsom salt/organic olive oil and fresh grapefruit therapy as described here
that night; last night actually) and while there was indeed chaff and some
"floaties" the second day of apple cider, it was nothing compared to the
very real "cleansing" i've been experiencing today!  And there really was
NO PAIN!!! I had been quite scared of that... The epsom salt stuff really
did it's trick... (For those in the US, check out Rite Aid Drug Stores for
their label of epsom salt -- their packaging does describe it being used as
a natural laxative, though the package describes much smaller dosages than
this protocal calls for.  It was nice to find that confirmation though,
that epsom salts can indeed be taken "internally"; packaging usually is
covered with warnings about it being for "external use only".  I found that
confirmation to be reassuring.  Also, for anybody about to do this, or for
those who still are, I highly recommend finding *Organic* Olive Oil -- it
actually tasted GOOD with the fresh squeezed grapefruit juice -- Whole
Foods Markets (a chain store in California) was the source of the one I
used. )

OK, now - I gotta know!  I don't wish to be gross in the least here, but
just what is/was all that stuff now cleaned out of me?!  All told, there
were quite literally hundreds of green blobbies and brownish blobbies (just
as advertised!) that when placed in a plastic bag squished flat with very
little finger pressure - upon close inspection when squished, they looked
like conglomerations of little zeros really, but there was no substance or
resistence to the touch...  Then there were also quite a few that were more
of a foggy-amber or butterscotch color, that did squish to the touch but
would NOT squish flat -- there was some sort of core substance to them, to
the feel of it through the plastic bag, and they were not nearly as
translucent as the other blobbies...  were these the actual "stones" and
the blobbies something else (fat or mucus bits from somewhere maybe) or do
they count as gallstones too?? I know in theory the apple cider was to
soften them... would this explain the difference, if there is any?  Please
enlighten me somebody - I know for sure I'm not going to get answers to
this anywhere else...!  I just need to know a bit more of what I'm needing
to "see" in there, so I might know better how well it's doing for me...  or
even WHAT it's doing for me...  especially since it's clear this is only
the first of many more times to come, if I'm understanding it right... 

Also - to any and all who have posted their stories and questions here
before, I can't thank you enough -- it was so incredibly helpful to find
them on the web yesterday as I thought about doing this... and it made a
huge difference in my finally deciding to go through with it, in spite of
my fears.   Thank you in advance for any enlightenment on this --
Sincerely, Jan Spell


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From: Jomma@aol.com
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 14:04:47 EDT
To: gallstones@onelist.com
Mailing-List: gallstones@onelist.com
Subject: [gallstones] Clueless in Stones

From: Jomma@aol.com

Hi all.
Thank you Dusan for leading me here to this wonderful place.  I have a 
question for anyone with knowledge.
I have done the Hulda Clark method of liver cleansing twice.
The first time (about a month ago) I passed what looked like an entangled 
mess of fishing line.

Terrible I know.  I had been on a parasite cleanse for two months and thought 
I had killed everything, I guess I was wrong.  Also, the night I did the 
cleanse I felt very very sick.....I needed to throw up, but restrained with 
all my might.  I did not see any stones.

Last night I did another cleanse....this time I had diarrhea in the middle of 
the night.

(The first time I don't think the epson salts helped my bowels at all....the 
only time I went to the bathroom was to pass the parasites).  Anyhow,  I 
don't think I saw any stones again.  Luckily, no parasites either.  However, 

I was wondering how big are these stones? Tiny, visible, large?  I saw flecks 
of whitish tan substance, but really not much of anything floating on the 
surface.

Also, I have a constant slight uncomfortable feeling on my right side....(I 
am guessing my liver or gallbladder)....Did I stir something up? It is not 
painful, just uncomfortable.  Perhaps I have a giant stone wedged in there?

What to do now?
Thanks in advance!
Jeanne Marie

--------------------------------------------------------
From: Jomma@aol.com
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 20:16:12 EDT
To: gallstones@onelist.com
Subject: [gallstones] Frustrated


From: Jomma@aol.com

I have tried three unsuccessful liver cleanses. The first one I passed 
nothing but parasites and felt very ill.

The second time I passed one very light tan stone.

The third time I passed a few tan stones, but none green and very few.

What am I doing wrong?

I am following Hulda Clark's method to a tee.

The last two times, though I did not get sick, I felt very tired and had a 
terrible headache.
Can anyone help???:
 Jomma


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Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 06:15:29 -0400
From: The Hazels In Virginia 
Organization: THE HAZEL FAMILY
To: dusan@online.no
Subject: liver stones

I have now done the liver cleanse 5 times and have gotten several
thousand stones out. WHat I watn to knwo is what causes them to form in
the body in the first place and how to prevent them from recurring. MIne
developed after hip surgery and I am wondering if it was a reaction form
all the drugs given to me in the hospital because it was after that that
I became jaundice. I would appreciate any infromation you might have
regarding this matter.

THanks,
Melinda HAzel
hazelsinvirginia@integrityonline18.com


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Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:10:36 -0500
To: gallstones@onelist.com
From: shouse@up.net (Sharon L. House)
Subject: [gallstones] green blobs


"I saw floating green blobs in the water, about five of them"

I have done a number of liver flushes myself and except for the last 2
times I also saw floating green blobs in the water. I was very excited and
happy about it.

Then I read in a couple of different places that the green blobs are
congealed olive oil. I didn't want to believe it. I thought they HAD to be
wrong. Then in the last 2 flushes I did I saw what were unmistakably
stones. They were about the size of small grapes and were real well formed.
They definitely looked like they had been hard stones that had softened.
The outsides of them looked whiteish and rather rough, just like you might
expect hard stones that had been softened.
Also I didn't pass these immediately after getting up in the morning.
I passed them thruout the day after I'd started eating.


Hope this helps in some way.

Sharon

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---------------------------------------------------------------------


Subject: My experience with gallstones flush
Message: 7 digest 2
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 08:31:43 -0800
From: Shelley Charlesworth 


I did a 'liver cleanse' or flush 9 months ago.

Prior to doing it, I did not have any symptoms of gallstones nor
did I have an ultrasound.

I'm a healthy, active 51 year old woman. I
just had always been curious to try a gallbladder flush
to see if anything would come out- as they say most everyone
has these gallstones and it's good to get them OUT.

I did the flush at about 9:30 p.m. And I vomited about 12;30!!! I
thought oh hell, what an un-pleasant waste of time BUT the next
morning I DID pass some gelatinous looking things that were greenish -
about 35 or 40 of them-none larger than a small pea.
I felt lousey - bloated and not hungry at all the next day.
But the day after that I felt great-20 years younger!!


I think I vomited because I ate some plain white rice and drank some
carrot juice about 5pm. I did not do enough reading
prior to doing the flush. I have been researching various
liver/gallbladder cleanses since then and most say NOT to eat all day
and to drink organic apple juice and only that for at least 5 days
prior.



I took only 4oz of fresh squeezed lemon juice followed by 4 oz of olive
oil at about 10 pm. I nearly gagged **YUK** at the time - it was most
un-pleasant drinking all that oil!! And of course,
as mentioned, later I vomited!!! more **YUK**!!

In the last 3 months I have had an intermittent
feeling of tightness in the area of my liver -
it is not a pain - and I have no nausea
and I can eat fried foods without a problem.
But I read about the smaller stones coming
up and clogging the ducts if you
do not do additional cleanses after the first, & this makes me wonder
if that is what is happening to me???

I have been taking a drink of lemon juice
and olive oil and a little WATER AND OJ
THAT GETS MIXED UP IN A BLENDER AND THIS SEEMS TO BE HELPING ME.

I plan to do some more flushes - drinking lots of organic apple juice
for a week prior to flushing and using castor oil packs on the gallbladder
each night for 2 weeks. I plan to follow the Hulda Clark protocol.

I think the right idea is to get the fresh grapefruit juice (instead of lemon)
and oil together in a jar and shake together then drink
and close the lid and shake again & keep shaking after each swallow.
Drinking all that STRAIGHT oil was horrible.

I want to keep my gallbladder - I read that people
who have their gallbladders removed have a 4x increase
in colon cancer.

Shelley


---------------------------------------------------


Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 18:12:04 -0800
From: Charlesworth 
Subject: [gallstones] Gallbladder flush

From:  Charlesworth 
Last Friday I ate a no-fat breakfast
and a plain baked potato for lunch.
Also drank some apple juice. I had been
drinking lots of organic apple juice daily
since Monday. I had also used a castor oil pack
nightly since Monday on my liver for one hour.

At 4 o'clock I mixed up 4 T epsom salts
in 3 cups water in a glass jar and
put it in the refrig. to chill
then I took an enema.

At 6pm I drank a cup of the epsom salt mixture.
Used a big straw. At 8 pm I drank another
cup.

At 9:45 I mixed up 3/4 cup olive oil
and 3/4 cup fresh squeezed grapefruit juice
in a glass jar with a lid.
I took it in the bedroom.
Got ready for bed - drank the
oil & juice mixture and got in bed and went to sleep.
I awoke around midnight, tossed & turned a bit
but went back to sleep. No nausea.
At 6 am I awoke and went to the toilet.

I had a very watery elimination
with lots of stones - none larger than
a pea and many small ones -
like sand! I drank the last cup
of the epsom salt mix and
I went back to bed until
about 8. At 8 am I had another
elimination of watery stool and more stones.

I felt tired and wrung out and
bloated. No energy or
appetite. Back to bed until
about 10. At 10 I got up
eliminated again - more
sand-like stones. Took
a rest sitting outside in the sunshine
for 1/2 hour - drank some apple juice.
Then took long bath. Back to bed.
At noon I ate a banana and had more apple juice.
Just rested in bed and read until 4pm.

At about 4 I took 2 enemas - a regular one
then a coffee retention enema.

I ate some plain white rice around 6 and a
small salad. Went to bed early - 8:30pm

On Sunday I awoke and felt VERY GOOD!!
Lots of energy and good appetite. Went
for a swim - ate a small breakfast
and took 2 more enemas - a cleansing one and then a coffee
retention one. Went for a one hour hike around the lake
in the late afternoon.

Have felt excellent since then - digestion
is improved. Energy excellent!!
I am a 51 year old active woman in good health.
I did one flush prior to this one
almost a year ago.

I have NONE of the so
called "risk factors" for gallstones.

I am tall & thin - 5' 8"
118 lbs

I am and always have been physically active. I swim and walk daily.
My cholesterol is low and I have eaten an almost all
vegetarian diet for the last 12 years.

I am female and I am FIFTY-one.

I am not flatulent and I had heard it was
fat-female-forty and FAIR.

Shelley


--------------------------------------------------



Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 08:16:54 -0700
From: Alan & Shelley Charlesworth 
To: gallstones@onelist.com
Subject: [gallstones] 4th flush this year

From: Alan & Shelley Charlesworth 

Night before last I did my 4th flush of '99.
Got many stones out once again.
I preceeded the flush with 4 days of drinking
lots of organic apple juice.
The day of the flush, I fasted and
took an enema at about 5 pm. At 6pm
and again at 8pm I drank about 3/4 cup of a water
and Epsom salt mix. At 9:45 I took
3/4 cup of fresh squeezed grapefruit juice
with 1/2 cup olive oil shaken together.
The next morning early there were many stones
eliminated. Later in the morning, I took a coffee
enema and more stones came out. Felt good-
even went for a swim and a walk - but
took it easy the rest of the day. Last night
about 7pm I took another coffee enema and
a few more stones were eliniated.
Feel great today! Going swimming and hiking!!

Shelley

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Subject: This recipe
Date:    Thu, 21 Oct 1999 10:17:21 -0400 (EDT)
From:    donci@iname.com
To:      mycleanse@geocities.com
-------------------------------------


I've been using a recipe by Dr. Clark. Can't complain.
In six months I flushed out 31,963 (!) stones.
Not as large as my thumb, but many as large as 30 mm.
Usually as soft as putty. Usually green. And never feel a thing.
Gotten rid of ALL of my food allergies. Permanently.

Haven't tried NOT taking Epsom salt the day after. But tried fresh,
pure, UNfiltered apple juice. Didn't like it.

The fibrous stuff in the juice remains undigested, floats in the toilet,
and interferes with my stone count.

Tried lemon juice. Got more stones out. But I didn't like it. Burned my
lips and mouth.

I lie on my LEFT side. Makes better anatomical sense to me. Dr.Clark's
advises "lie on your BACK". Your friend's advises "lie on your RIGHT".
Also, persistent "zapping" and not taking any drugs or vitamins make
more difference than most of us realize.

Warm regards,
RD

donci@iname.com
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---------------------------------------------------------------------


Message: 4
   Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 20:21:22 -0400
   From: "Robert K. McMullan" 
Subject: Re: GALLSTONE FLUSH

Hey there.  I encountered no problems with the flush.  I drink apple juice
for a few days prior.  the day of the flush fast after 2 or 3.  at about 7
drink the epsom, again at 9. then the olive oil and lemon and go to bed at
11. No pain at all. I am tired the next day until around evening time.  I
have done that flush twice and a different one another time. Good luck.

Laura


----------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 5
   Date: Sat, 09 Oct 1999 10:31:38 -0400
   From: Robert McMullan 
Subject: Re: Digest Number 132

Hey, I believe it does get rid of stones. Hopefully ppl will reply who have
had follow up ultrasounds showing no more stones.

I have done three cleanses and passed numerous stones. They looked like the
stones shown in a pic of a gallbladder full of stones.

My stones were described as moderately large. The largest I passed was the
size of a garbanzo bean. I also am taking herbs to dissolve. I have heard
an MD state that stones can be passed. My feeling was, would God make an
organ that could possibly form stones that the stones couldn't pass out of?
Maybe I'm just weird. Course eating a diet low in fat would help the
symptoms. Oh, well I'm rambling. I say try it, if it worked for hundreds of
other ppl it might work for you.

Laura
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 2
   Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 08:49:42 -0400
   From: Robert McMullan 
Subject: Re: Gallstone -pain

Teri, I usually feel tired for about a day or so after the flush. With
taking the epsoms, it is a good idea to be near the restroom!
Good luck! I will be doing one Friday evening. I have been having a lot of
symptoms lately, so I know there are stones in there dying to get out!

Laura


---------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
   Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 08:39:51 -0400
   From: Robert McMullan 
Subject: Re: New & Just looking for info and help




Hey unloved. I am so sorry for your problems. You came to the right place.
If you go on down below there are a couple of sites you can read about
gallbladders.  And also cleanses and flushes to rid the gb of stones. I am
getting ready to do my 4th flush tonight. Fun, fun, fun. People are glad to
talk and answer questions  and share stories. Good luck.
Laura (And there is Someone who loves you)


---------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 7
   Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 22:39:46 EDT
   From: Dgs32@aol.com
Subject: Re: New member

I have had gallstones for approximately 15 years.  The first time I did the 
flush, I had to do it several times and I got out literally thousands of 
stones.  The last ones came out all clumped together about the size of my 
fist.  It was absolutely painless.  I made sure that I drank apple juice for 
two weeks before I ever drank the olive oil.  Since then I try to do the 
flush every six months only now I don't always drink the apple juice and I 
still have no problems.  If I would only change my diet I probably wouldn't 
have to keep doing it, but I always feel wonderful after I do. 

Debbie 

---------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 2
   Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:14:00 EDT
   From: Dgs32@aol.com
Subject: Re: Gallstone Treatment from Dr. Mercola's website

Replying to Rebecca's question regarding getting a colon infection after the 
gallstone cleanse.  I have not experienced that, but, I have been doing the 
cleanse on a relatively regular basis for 16 years and many times I will get 
a lot of bladder irritation and/or kidney pain.  This indicates to me that I 
need to clean my kidneys out before I do the gallbladder flush..  I would 
suspect you need a colon cleanse before any more liver and gallbladder 
cleanses.  Check out  http://home.online.no/~dusan/index.html   and 
click on Dr. Richard Schultz and it will tell you the order to cleanse so 
your whole system gets maximum benefit.  Hopes this helps.

Debbie

---------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------


Message: 1
   Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 07:11:59 +1000
   From: Rebecca Woiwade 
Subject: Re: Gallstone Treatment from Dr. Mercola's website

Hi,

I did the Gallstone cleanse on the weekend.  I got some good sized stones out,
proberly about 80 in number.  I am planning to do the 5 flushes program
because I
know there are more there..  My friends were really impressed with the
flush as
well, and are planning on doing a flush themselves.  They havent seen my
skin so
clear and healthy in a long time!

Anyway, now I have a infection of the bowel???  Has anyone experienced the
same
thing after a cleanse?  Any comments, suggestions welcome.

Regards,

Rebecca Woiwade
From the land DownUnder



---------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------


J.     12 September 1999 
Colorado Springs, USA" 


"It was great hearing from you.  Dr. S. is really a sweetheart and has 
been a great support for me in the past.  Unfortunately I don't see very much 
of him anymore since we've been following Dr. Clark's cleansing programs.  He 
said if all his patients got  on the "program" he wouldn't have many patients 
left.  Even he was amazed with my progress.  However  the BIG improvement was 
with our daughter, K. 

Let me tell you a little about her.  All through her life she has had stomach 
and colon problems.  They kept getting worse and worse.  We took her to 
medical doctors of all specialties in hopes of finding someone that could 
help her.  She would have, what we started referring to as, "attacks".  These 
started in her teen years.  The pain in her abdomen was so severe that she 
would lie on the floor in a fetal position and cry in pain.  We would rush 
her to the emergency unit.  She could not walk; we would have to carry her. 
They could never find anything wrong and after a while, the pain would 
subside and we would take her home.  She would vacillate between  bouts of 
diarrhea and constipation.  She was such a happy, talented girl that our 
hearts would break for her when we saw her in such pain.  She was always very 
small and very attractive, as well as a talented vocalist.  She had so much 
going for her and yet suffered so from these "mysterious" attacks.  She also 
started experiencing severe migraines in her senior year of high school, 
through college and into her adult years.  Over the years, the attacks and 
the migraines came more frequently making her afraid to go anywhere.  This 
was really difficult since in twenties she had become a national speaker, 
traveling frequently.   She trained herself to give seminars with migraines. 
She was successful but miserable because of her physical  condition. 

After she got married, she and her husband moved to Las Vegas.  Her condition 
continued to worsen until she stopped eating altogether because she could not 
process food at all.  She was getting desperate.  She got down to 100 pounds 
and we became very worried about her.  One day a friend told her about a Dr. 
M., who was quite well known and who had specialized in liver conditions. 
He had written a couple of books, including one on migraine headaches.  Even 
though he was a MD, he studied and dispensed homeopathic medicine.  She went 
to see him and he told her that  the migraines were from her liver and after 
testing her said that she was allergic to almost all foods--all dairy, flour, 
sugar, wheat, soy, etc.  Her liver was not functioning at all.  He gave her 
some liver medicine and put her on a strict diet.  There was so little she 
could eat that she had a woman prepare her food specially for her without 
including any of the foods she was allergic to.  She still looked  so  frail 
because of her food restrictions.  She held tight to her diet just to 
survive.  Also during this time, she found a colonic therapist that started 
working with her.  For the first few times she went to her, the therapist was 
amazed that she could not get anything  to come out. 

Then in April, K. and her husband moved back to Colorado Springs.  She sought 
out a colonic therapist here and it just happens that the therapist she found 
believed that physical problems came from parasites.  She gave her a tincture 
to help kill them and K. started passing small parasites.  She was so amazed 
at seeing these parasites, she urged me and my husband to go.  Well, before I 
would do anything so drastic as getting a colonic,  I had to know more about 
it.  So I got on the Internet and put in the words "colon" and "parasite". 
Dr. Hulda Clark's name kept coming up over and over.  So we went out and got 
her book, "The Cure for All Diseases".  I immediately ordered three of the 
parasite cleanse packages.  Because of a mix-up, we only got one at first and 
I gave it to my daughter and got her started.  I also ordered a zapper.  K. 
started both, along with a Super Colon Cleanser.  She started getting amazing 
results.  Just after using the zapper, she passed an 8 inch liver worm about 
1 inch in diameter.  Then they just started coming daily.  She got another 
liver worm with a HUGE blood fluke suckered to it.  When she went to her next 
colonic, she passed many, many blood flukes, each about the size of a 
quarter.  Then later at home, she passed a 40 inch worm with a diameter a 
little larger than a pencil.  It has been three months, and she is still 
passing worms--- lots of them and many quite large.  She is on the 
maintenance program but is doing the other cleansing programs, one at a time. 
 Weekend before last, she did the liver cleanse and passed a lot of toxins as 
well as 600  or so stones.  Her stones were dark, dark green, almost black. 
She called me from Washington State today (she has a speaking engagement 
there) and she says she feels terrific. 

About 2 weeks after she started on Dr. Clark's programs, she found she could 
now eat everything and she has no migraines or attacks.  She is a new person!
  However, the thing she is most delighted with is the fact that she is 
ovulating.  She has been trying to get pregnant for the past 2.5 years but 
tests showed she wasn't ovulating.  Shortly after she started Dr. Clark's 
program and just after the first 2 liver worms came out along with all the 
blood flukes, she could feel her body changing mid-month.  We finally figured 
out that she was ovulating!!  She and her husband didn't want her to become 
pregnant during the cleansings so they took precautions.  However after the 
liver cleanse, she felt she was ready and so she tested herself mid-month and 
sure enough, she was ovulating.  She was so excited.  It is too soon to know 
if she is pregnant but she is confident that it won't be long. 

My heart is so happy for her.  She is such a joy and has blessed so many 
others in her short 29 years.  Thank you, Dr. Clark, for giving her life back 
to her.  Our prayers have been answered!  She has gained weight and even 
though worms continue to come out of her, she feels she has certainly been 
blessed. 

Our own testimonies pale to hers, but my husband and I have gotten great 
results also.  My husband passed a 24" liver worm.  I have passed many, many 
lung flukes (and continue to do so) and no longer have trouble speaking in 
the mornings because of phlegm in my lung and throat.  Diabetes has always 
run in my family ( I was even pre-diabetic when pregnant with my children). 
I passed many pancreatic flukes so I am quite confident that I won't suffer 
from diabetes. 

We are telling many of our friends who have been experiencing severe physical 
problems and they have had phenomenal results.  A son of one of our friends 
was so sick that he had even contemplated suicide.  Only K. could convince 
him to try this alternative treatment.  After a week, he called me to say 
that he had gotten his  life back.  He was only 29 and for the first time in 
many years, he felt like it.  Another friend of K.'s who has been diagnosed 
with brain cancer at 29 years listened to K. and is now in touch with Dr. 
Clark's staff.  She has been using the zapper and following the 
parasite-cleansing program along with chemo.  Hopefully, she will experience 
wonderful results too. 

I hope this as inspiring to you as it has been to us.  Please pass our 
thanks on to Dr. Clark. 

J.     12 September 1999 
Colorado Springs, USA" 




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