So I'm new to this forum. The last thread was so long, I'm not sure what the issues are on the table right now. It seems that everyone here is OK for the education of our children. It also seems like everyone agrees on the breakdown of the American family. It even seems that everyone is in favor of birth control when appropriate.

I was reading some of the old threads. I like what one poster said. This debate is not about one side hating the death of a fetus and the other side loving the death of a fetus. I can totally see that. It's not like a capital punishment debate, is it? One side says, no, don't kill the inmate, the other side says yes, do kill the inmate. Hmmm.

Pro Life is - abortion, it's bad, in all it's forms.

Pro Choice is - don't tell me what to do with my body

Seems like two different arguments altogether, doesn't it?

I'm sure we all agree that women do not merrily skip into a clinc and say...wheee, I'm having an abortion. Isn't this great, I'm killing. Yahhh. For goodness sake. I'm positive it is a profound, horrible experience. Perhaps with long lasting regret for some. But never happily.

Ultimately, if left on it's own, that fetus would most likely develop into an independent human. On that, I'm sure we can all agree also. So, no matter when life officially begins, the fetus could turn into a self sufficient human. No one could possibly debate that.

I'm sure, most people would agree, that the only thing we really actually own is our bodies. It would be unbelievable if someone said, for 9 months, or perhaps 18 years, you must be chained to this person, and everywhere you go, you must take them along. I bet you'd say, no way, I don't want to be chained to this person. And you would say, it's my right NOT to be chained to this person. You wouldn't think that was at all fair, and perhaps you would even think that it might profoundly ruin your life. Let's not think about this in terms of a child, let's just think about this in terms of someone else telling you what you must do with your body and liberty.

So, as you can see, this is a debate that will never be resolved, no matter how much one side believes their ideology, or their rights to freedom, whichever is most important to them, because, it is in essence, two different desires.

Any pro-choice person that says that aborting a fetus is a good and wonderful thing, that's a lie

Any pro-life person that said they honestly think that there are humans that really love to abort fetuses, you know that's a lie.

Any pro-life person that says they don't care about the rights of their body, that's a lie (it's fundamental in who we are)

Any pro-choice person who says that they don't believe that fetuses are potential self sufficient humans, that's also a lie. It is pure logic.

Each side supports their ideology with information that doesn't even matter to the opposite side, because they are not fighting about the same thing. It's all a lot of smoke and mirrors.

That is why this issue has galvanized the country, because no one, not even a politician, could possibly win a debate, that does not have a clear pro and con.