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Re: Probiotics contributing to SIBO/biofilms/feeding pathogens??
Hveragerthi Views: 25,159
Published: 10 years ago
This is a reply to # 1,875,822

Re: Probiotics contributing to SIBO/biofilms/feeding pathogens??

 Hver, you know your stuff so I will respectfully disagree that systemic candida infections are extremely rare...

"A weakened or undeveloped immune system or metabolic illnesses such as diabetes are significant predisposing factors of candidiasis.[15] Diseases or conditions linked to candidiasis include HIV/AIDS, mononucleosis, cancer treatments, steroids, stress, and nutrient deficiency. Almost 15% of people with weakened immune systems develop a systemic illness caused by Candida species.[16]

reference: ^ Odds FC (1987). "Candida infections: an overview". Crit. Rev. Microbiol. 15 (1): 1–5"

I think a lot of the problem is that many people don't understand what "systemic" really means and so the term gets used loosely too often.  Note that even in your link above they say "systemic illness caused by Candida" not systemic Candida.  There is a major difference.

If you had systemic Candida then you would likely be in the hospital in very critical condition or dead.

It seems to me that the evidence points to beneficial flora controling the growth of candida YEAST, but once it's gone into the fungal form it becomes an aggressive parasite and completely overtakes the intestines, absorbing all nutrients for itself and sending spores into the bloodstream to seek out weak points to expand its colonies.

I disagree with the spores part.  Again, many people do not understand the concept of "leaky gut" caused by fungal Candida.  Leaky gut does not mean that any old thing can pass through.  It means that solutes that would not normally pass through the intestine are being allowed through due to the increased permeability of the gut.

As for the fungal form, the pH is what regulates the form the Candida takes on.  An alkaline pH and you get fungal Candida.  If the pH is restored to the normal acidic pH then the fungal Candida converts back to the benign yeast form.  But you cannot simply take probiotic foods and expect a miracle.   The bacteria generate their beneficial acids primarily through the fermentation of fibers.  Simply taking beneficial bacteria and then starving them therefore is not going to do squat.

But I think the strongest evidence is anecdotal, with tons of people stating that even kraut and kefir did them no good or made them worse when they were severely overgrown.

See above.

There are tons of studies like below in regards to probiotics in pill form (not kraut and kefir):

In a study done by the University of Washington in 1990 they found that "Most of the lactobacillus containing probiotics products currently available either do not contain the Lactobacillus species and/or contain other bacteria of questionable benefit."

So my posts are that REAL probiotics (not the over priced pills) should be the LAST STEP in treating a candida infection. Alot of folks are just eating tons of probiotics and wondering why they can't get better. I went that route at first and quickly realized that trying to put out a fire by spitting on it doesn't work.

There are various reasons I do not like most probiotic supplements.  I also prefer cultured foods, preferably homemade.  Some of the store bought "live culture" foods are not really live culture.


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