I have done 8 flushes and have never experienced pain with the flushes. I always use a variation on the Hulda protocol using ES. I would never not use ES because the ES dilate the ducts for easy passage of the stones. Now that I know what I know, and have done flushes, I am relatively pain free. It took me 6 months of reading and thinking about the flushing before I did it. I say, just do it!!! It is easy, pain free, and really cool when you see the results of the flush.