My guess is nature is forcing the issue that female polygamy is far superior toward survival and health of the race. Less (healthier) males primarily providing the seeds for offspring. Oh, what I wouldn’t do to be many generations younger. VOR   [End]
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Its just a matter of eating more cholesterol. Once the body becomes satisfied with a level of sufficiency, it will stop hoarding it for a rainy day. From what I’ve read, most stones will thus start dissolving after a few months and you will be stone free in one year. VOR   [End]
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I won’t be voting either way but from my perspective she’s more fit than all three. She’s closer to what America IS and NEEDS than any of them. VOR   [End]
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Well, you’ve covered yourself. The conspiracy lives no matter who gets elected right? I agree with a lot of what you stated, except do not agree its due to conspiring forces. There are certainly philosophical movements in the world pushing hard for their way of life (always has been), but that doesn’t mean there is some ”master plan” with a few people in a booth pushing the control buttons. In America we have nobody to blame for our loss of liberty except our lazy selves. We’ve allowed this to happen for the most part. McCain became the candidate because conservatives couldn’t produc ...
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Obama will lose because: 1 - He is outside the mainstream group think. a. I have often said most Americans do not subscribe to the gospel of the extreme left OR the extreme right. b. Most Americans remain centrists and jealously protective of their guaranteed inalienable rights. 2 - He is THE most liberal (and disingenuous) Senator in the country. 3 - Unanswered questions and deep doubt. a. Occidental College records -- Not released? b. Columbia College records -- Not released? c. Columbia Thesis paper -- Not available? d. Harvard College records -- Not released? e. Selecti ...
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I’m sorry, but I’m not following you. What is convenient? VOR   [End]
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To clarify, I don’t claim to know the actual speed. If there was debris flying out the sides rapidly and it extended many blocks, why shouldn’t we conclude human remains couldn’t have done the same? Regardless of what caused the collapse, I don’t understand your logic. VOR   [End]
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There’s also the factor of rapid air compression like when a bomb goes off next to you. This can rip a human body into pieces and throw you many feet without a spec of fire. You don’t think this was a factor inside a giant building with its floors collapsing at nearly free fall speed? VOR   [End]
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”Its quite simple no building of these types have ever collapsed from fire ” Typical flame engulfed building fires usually don’t reach 1832°F. They also don’t have preliminary impacts with jumbo-jet aircraft at 300mph in strategical places either. Would you agree that this was no ordinary building fire? If so, its not simply a matter of comparing it to other building fires and concluding it should behave the same. That is not common sense. That is poorly formed conjecture (no offense). Consider some facts: Burning jet fuel can melt steel. The force of those impacts did weaken struct ...
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”Meanwhile, the number of signatures continues to grow. The fact that it still remains a fringe org 7 years after 911 tells me it doesn’t have much traction. It may continue to ”grow” but the reality is its growth is not indicative of anything compelling. Good luck, VOR   [End]
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Yep, there are lots of people in the world. Considering the amount of people in the country and #cars traveling on ground, this is nothing. By the way, do you realize how much GA has grown in the last 20 years? Take care, VOR   [End]
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I’m not on a witch hunt to convince people either way. That seems to be your agenda. I’m just sharing my opinion. The body of information in these timelines aren’t evidence in my eyes. Its a lot of embellished conjecture of events mixed with many inaccuracies; and I suspect misunderstandings. Yes, planes do travel long distances and contrails can indeed last a day, just as many weather systems can sustain fairly consistent temperature and humidity levels for long periods of time, as well as span large areas of space (regions). Cheers, VOR   [End]
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I count about 12. Not exactly awe inspiring. And how many understand how buildings fall? We are nearly 7 years post 911. By far the majority of structural professionals haven’t signed. To me that’s more of a red flag than this list. Hey, I don’t wish to trample on your dreams here. If you wish to embrace this sort of flakiness as compelling evidence, then that is your choice to do so. For me, it falls very short. The numbers are dismal considering the amount of general engineering/architecture professionals they’ve opened it up to and could potentially sign the petition. Students don’t ...
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What is your explanation of trails before 1962 as this blog entry illustrates? Thanks. http://contrailscience.com/contrail-photos-through-history/ VOR   [End]
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An impressive list at first glance, but its credibility really starts to unravel as you look closer at this organization. First of all, how many certified structural engineers are part of this petition? Architects know nothing of structural collapse scenarios (the ring leader admits this), and probably most engineers (unless specialized in mechanical engineering field) wouldn’t know much either. Then, even a small few of mechanical engineers would know about how buildings can fall. My father is an electrical engineer and can’t fix a door hinge, so if he joined this cause I’d have to seriou ...
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The authorities know that the real climate change occurring today is global cooling. Our real concern is the sun, not the earth or the atmosphere. If anything, this reality sheds more darkness on the chemtrail conspiracy. http://ibdeditorial.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=287279412587175 Cheers, VOR   [End]
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I already have if you read some of my posts on the matter. If you’d like to differ on something specific I’ve argued, please feel free to recite it here. I’d be happy to debate the specifics with you. To be honest, it would be refreshing to focus on one fact at a time, rather than all this hearsay/conjecture, random links, and purported ”insider” posts. I’ll start: Chemtrail believers suggest all contrails dissipate in a matter of minutes (i.e. no contrails can persist or spread out). Regardless of whether the conspiracy is true, this is an irrefutable falsehood because: 1.) Contrail ...
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”This is unhealthy to say the least.” Unhealthy to say the most since that is most real part of this. VOR   [End]
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I have no interest in engaging specific people. I prefer to comment on the message as it comes and what I know to be true or false. In some cases the message is so overwhelmingly false, it is pointless to even bother. VOR   [End]
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I guess I don’t see how the admission of chaff as ”damming” or relevant to this conspiracy. Chaff deployments don’t really behave the way proposed ”aerosol spraying” does. Military chaff deployments that inadvertently effect the public or environment are not widespread but incidental and probably extremely rare. The crux of this conspiracy is that contrails from commercial and other aircraft are in actuality purposefully sprayed materials (sponsored by ”powerfully wealthy people that own the world”) that somehow linger at high altitude for long periods yet effect respiratory systems on ...
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Ok, so I read this post by Sunver: http://curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1202980 It is filled with so many indisputable false assumptions and unsubstantiated mythical creations I don’t even know where to begin. Its overwhelming. Perhaps that’s the point? All good conspiracy puppeteers use these tactics to try to portray a ”mountain of evidence”. If Sunver is an insider he’s not a very informed one, particularly in regards to meteorology and modern day aircraft systems. VOR   [End]
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Again, I am not on any quests. The burden of explanation lies with the prosecution. Nobody (that I have ever read or talked with) has ever been able to adequately explain to me why these chemtrails are not normal contrails. It is always based in the fictional assumption that contrails can’t persist when in fact simple meteorological physics show they can, and have throughout aviation history. The GAO report is not a revelation of anything or anything remotely implicating the govt in a chemtrail admission. The term ”chemtrail” is not even uttered in the report. I can’t really understand ...
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Can you show me where in the report it uses the terminology ”chemtrail” to identify chaff? There are probably bad chemicals in chaff. It is probably not a good idea to be dropping chaff over public or protected areas, so disclosure is a good thing. However, it is a huge stretch to relate this to the purported widespread ”aerosol crimes laid down thickly in our skies every day,” no? I feel you are trying to embellish this ”chaff” report to support your belief in the chemtrail conspiracy, which is your choice, but frankly it is very weak. Water and fuel vapor are also chemicals so perh ...
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My gender is male, yes. I don’t so much care what ”you” think, but rather the manner and validity of the subject discussed. It is of little consequence if you agree with me. What is of importance is how the game is played so that other readers can make up their own minds. You can delude yourself into thinking I’m interested in you personally. I’m cool with that, but keep in mind you engaged me first http://www.curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=1220459#i and have continued to reply to me equally. Maybe I’m the lucky one? Thanks for the reply. Yours, VOR   [End]
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Not really. I just haven’t read anything convincing or credible to me. I made no mention or suggestion that other non-mainstream sites are incapable of posting truth. I’ve also made no absolute denials. I think you ought re-read what I’ve written and perhaps look at your own rhetoric. The other woman I’ve exchanged with suggests ”there is no debate necessary” and I gather you agree with her. Fine with me, but please recognize that is an absolute position. As stated, I’m not a truth seeker in this since it isn’t my conspiracy. My profession just happens to revolve around a lot this and I ...
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There are multiple perceptions but only one truth. You can feed your perception all you want, but I would argue it is a poor strategy for finding real truth. A good hunter relies on a proven tracking method based on verifiable observation. Your current methodology requires a large proportion of faith and assumption to achieve conclusion. Although you may get lucky, it is more likely you will be perpetually frustrated by this conspiracy since I suspect a lot of it is being orchestrated by people who wish to deceive you for whatever reason (political, entertainment, etc). I wish you lu ...
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You don’t have to believe me. My only contention is that eyes can lie (particularly ground observation of objects at multiple thousands of feet); symptoms can easily be explained by other meteorological and environemental factors (we live in a polluted environment regardless of air travel). Air planes fly daily so its easy to point up and make conjecture that was the cause, but the fact is there is no scientific method involved in that kind of observation, so its perplexing (to me at least) that anyone would believe so deeply in such a fragile body of evidence. A few decades ago? More t ...
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I’m sorry but this is all incorrect. Throughout history contrails have not necessarily ”quickly vanished” given the temperature and humidity of that layer of air. Have a look: http://contrailscience.com/thirty-contrails-forty-years-ago/ Quite simply, the only thing that has changed are size of the engine, engine efficiency (thicker contrail due to more vapor), and the amount of traffic. http://contrailscience.com/persisting-and-spreading-contrails/ VOR   [End]
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All myth and hearsay sites in my experience. Lots of inaccuracies portrayed as fact and nothing credible unfortunately. I find it dangerous people believe in Internet sites they don’t even know, and then swallow it all as 100% fact. That is astonishing. Baffling further is if you’ve read all these sites and believe in their logic, why is it you can’t refute or comment on my explanations? Seems to me you’d be an expert in parroting their views. It should be easy, no? The school textbook thing is sick and proof to me this is more politically motivated than anything else. It is much like ...
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A good place to start your understanding: http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=1209867#i http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relative_humidity Happy learning, VOR   [End]
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You don’t see it as a debatable topic yet you are here more than anyone. That statement also must mean your mind is made up (e.g. closed). That’s unfortunate. True truth seeks always welcome debate. Rhetoric such as this suggests to me truth is not your real motivation. Cheers, VOR   [End]
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Can you explain to me why there are no trails in the northern part of SC, GA, AL, as well as TN and NC? Many of the flight paths are headed on vectors to Navaids in those states. Thanks. VOR   [End]
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Because I’m not the one purporting that their report has significant merit. I would think maybe you would be more interested than I no? Afterall, you started the thread as though a smoking gun was revealed. I’m not generally interested in being vigilant about digging up this info (its not my conspiracy) but I would be interested in reading the analysis if someone had it to share. VOR   [End]
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What makes you think I’m only interested in this forum? I just recently signed up and am interested in many things. I’ve also never posted anything mainstream so it seems you don’t pay much attention. I never stated chemtrails don’t exist, but I do believe it is 99% bunk as typically presented (the majority of which is online hearsay and multiple inaccuracies). I think the Internet is a great tool for getting good info, but at the same time its a large purveyor of myth and false propaganda. The burden of proof lies with the prosecution. I make no claims other than normal contrails ca ...
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This is fine and dandy but the poster (as I am) are interested in the materials analysis report from the 2006 claim. This is the most relevant piece (if it really exists). The GAO report is vanilla and pretty much tells me where Harkin is on the issue. Thanks. VOR   [End]
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I work in the industry, and therefore, if a conspiracy develops out of ignorance and hearsay, trust me; you become interested in it. I get asked frequently about it and the misunderstanding and purveyance of Internet myth is rampant. I’d be happy to sit down with you sometime if I could, but I don’t think you’d be able to scientifically dissuade me there is a difference between a contrail that persists due to RH and the so called chemtrail. Nobody has yet and I’ve looked at thousands. I do remain open minded, however, so please tell me why you would be able to? Cheers, VOR   [End]
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I’m not really the one looking for ”proof”. VOR   [End]
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SD is certainly more urban and meteorologically more dynamic than western MA so you’ll certainly see more persistent contrails and major airports vectoring hundreds of planes per day. If that becomes your basis (like most), then you will surely join the ranks of the chemtrail hobbyist. Hope you enjoy the relocation. Nice area. VOR   [End]
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How do you know you’re being sprayed? What evidence do you have? I’m perfectly willing to read what you have if you think its compelling evidence. However, Internet hearsay and layman observation of persistent contrail patterns in the sky just aren’t proof of chemtrail conspiracy. The link you provided isn’t an effort by the Governor to ferret out chemtrials; it claims to be an effort by an environmental agency to petition the governor’s office to look into it. However, how do we know its legit? The site could easily fake this correspondence. They also state ”from a reliable source....” ...
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I wasn’t even aware of Sunver. He spilled what beans? No, I’m very much interested in aviation and meteorology so this particular conspiracy is intriguing to me. Sorry to disappoint. VOR   [End]
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Ah, no. I’m looking for the chemical analysis report the Idaho Observer claims to have that shows proof it came from chaff. Thanks. VOR   [End]
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For some odd reason there’s a wanting and needing for this to be true among many (especially in the alt health community). It’s pathological. I can’t explain it, other than I suspect there’s a significant political and monetary motivation behind it all that’s not interested in what is the truth and what isn’t. The avg person that buys into this is just a pawn. The reasoning follows; it has to be real because all government is bad. This is an extreme and simplistic point of view. Yes, govts and people do bad things, and yes, there is corruption and coverups and a failed medical system, e ...
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Has anybody actually seen the official GAO report? I can’t find a real web site that’s published the official document. Therefore, its hard not to treat it as hearsay. If I could see the report, it would be interesting to see how they prove the samples came from the chaff. So many times ”ground samples” are not reliable. I suspect this to be the case also. Also, chaff isn’t a chemtrail by the hobbyist’s own definition. I would agree it’s pollution and probably not something healthy in a residential environment, but its periodic existence during training exercises isn’t proof of a global ...
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”autism now encompasses dozens of conditions that now fall under the autism spectrum umbrella.” I agree, which is why I posted the article. But it still doesn’t remove doubt in my mind that the incredible number of vaccinations and the tender age these are administered today is a safe or efficacious thing to do. Over labeling doesn’t help either side of this issue get to the bottom of what is really happening. VOR   [End]
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Have a read here: ”Same sky, same humidity, but different behaviors.” There’s absolutely no way you could make that determination based on ground perspective. There are many different layers of humidity even within the same latitude. The atmosphere is a highly multivariate space. As such, you could have some planes making contrails and some making none to the onlooker, all on a so called ”clear” day. Remember, you are talking thousands of feet spacing that appear mere inches to the ground person’s perspective. There is no way to measure or make judgments on RH unless you were up t ...
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So do you have an explanation as to why ”they” chose the path Bertha is taking? Seems to me if you could drive it with a steering wheel, its an awful waste of power and potential energy to wander around the Atlantic aimlessly. VOR   [End]
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Your reply is puzzling as it suggests that I have revealed a particular bias. I agree with what you wrote. I believe vaccines (particularly the amount of them and the age given) are a huge contributing factor in the increased neurological impairments seen in children. I think its pretty undeniable. The article doesn’t mention vaccines, however, its worth noting in this debate because if a significant amount of autism cases are falsely diagnosed (as wee see in ADD and other child ”syndromes”), then that diverts/obscures attention away from truth (as it relates to vaccine cause) and al ...
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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21600784/ VOR   [End]
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Better yet. VOR   [End]
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--- ”if i think back to around 1999 i saw streaks but never thought much about them.” You could also go back to the 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s and seen streaks. Was this chemcloud operation in service back then as well? ”if i think back to around 1999 i saw streaks but never thought much about them.” You could also go back to the 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s and seen streaks. Was this chemcloud operation in service back then as well? http://contrailscience.com/thirty-contrails-forty-years-ago/ ”once you tune in it’s hard to turn off.” Precisely my point in previous posts ...
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Looks more to me like it may threaten Bermuda and then skip past the northern east coast, but you never know. VOR   [End]
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” gets trapped in by the chemclouds and i believe that that is why so many more people are coming down with asthma, allergies and dropping dead.” People have been dropping dead of these maladies long before air travel. What constitutes a chemcloud? I’m not clear since all clouds are composed of ”chemicals”. Thanks. VOR   [End]
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Maybe this has more to do with your skies than air travel? http://mr.caltech.edu/media/Press_Releases/PR11706.html Yours, VOR   [End]
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Do you have any pictures of these snowflakes? Thanks. VOR   [End]
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”seems more likely to explain this very large number of ”stitched together” ”contrails” is an intentional effort at producing a chemical haze blanket over the region” Maybe if you’re writing a fiction novel. It is a cool photo, and it does show how a good number of contrails can add to the persistent cloud cover given the relative humidity in that layer of air, however, anything beyond that is fodder for the conspiracy hobbyist who does not understand the basics of aviation and weather (or doesn’t wish to). Thanks for sharing. VOR   [End]
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I agree. There has been extreme abuse (some purposeful and some unintended) by the cultural, medical, and governmental establishments. What I am referring to are those that have woken up to these facts. Victims do exist, but you should only be able to claim victim status for the few seconds it took you to realize it, for each second after that becomes your responsibility to do something about it. True victims are those that are completely unaware. VOR   [End]
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--- ”1) air sampling revealing aluminum, barium and other chemicals” --- ”2) water sampling revealing same chemicals” Where can I get an official copy of these samplings? Besides; aluminum, barium, and a multitude of these elements exist naturally in the environment (some more concentrated in certain regions), so how is that evidence of anything conspiratorial? Even if true and at amounts indicating some malevolent intent, I’ve yet to see any with proof the aircraft trail is the cause of it. --- ”3) chemtrails persist--VOR ignores the vapor pressure that would cause tinly water crys ...
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The H.R. 2977 bill fiasco has been somewhat explained on various other sites. Suggest you read those, including the site I posted here and tell me why this rationale is wrong: http://contrailscience.com/kucinich-chemtrails-and-hr-2977/ Carnicom is not an authority of evidence as far as I know. All the links you provided are interesting but not proof that I can discern. They seem highly speculative mostly. In fact, I’ve not seen one real photo (not doctored) yet that could not be explained. Moreover, identical photos can been seen in pictures 30-40 years ago. http://contrailscien ...
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---”Consider yourself, you may be wrong...” I already have. It is my nature to remain objective either way so that I can discern real from unreal. Simply looking up and seeing lines in the sky (all of which can be explained by meteorological science) is not enough for me to accept this as fact. Your eyes can and do deceive you at many times in your life. They are not to be trusted when making claims of this magnitude. Eyes also told people the earth was flat. People were as convinced of that as you are of this. Our memories are also not a reliable gauge as these lines have been ar ...
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---- ”The fact remains that Kucinich introduced the ORIGINAL bill in March 2001 with the words ”chemtrails”, and ”tectonic weaponry”. The fact remains the original language for the bill was drafted by Alfred Webre and Carol Rosin. When Kuchinich was made aware of the language in the bill it was re-written and when questioned about it, he stated bluntly: ”I’m not into that. Understand me. When I found out that was in there, I said, look, I’m not interested in going there.” Additionally, Rosin (the original author) stated : ”Perhaps I can help correct some fuzzy information that is bei ...
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”What do you mean when you write that people are responsible for their health problems? ” I mean exactly what I wrote. Health is achieved through taking charge and responsibility of one’s own health issues, not relying on or blaming others. From the brief time I’ve spent here, it appears to me this web site probably exemplifies this notion. VOR   [End]
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This is all adequately explained on the site I posted. Perhaps you would like to refute some specifics contained there? Perhaps this for starters? http://contrailscience.com/chemtrail-myths/ If you truly have real evidence of chemtrail conspiracy, please share it. Try as you might but the points you highlighted are still just extreme speculation, explainable natural phenomena, and a combination of miscommunication and misunderstandings, all of which get hyperbolically exaggerated online. Please beware, once you start down this road its hard to stop. Once you buy into all of this, ...
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http://contrailscience.com/kucinich-chemtrails-and-hr-2977/ Read this and get back to us. VOR   [End]
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