Good. A teaspoon of earth after a CE is great for capturing what gets stirred up! Also if you feel worse in the morning after a night’s detox, another good time for earth. Rgds   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

I’m not an iodine groupie BUT if these are symptoms of detox you have to help your body with this toxic load. I do coffee enemas which are great at reducing all symptoms incl insomnia--but diatomaceous earth (food grade) is the easiest and most effective way of safely detoxing in a hurry. RGds   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Sorry to hear of your trial! I escaped NYC just in time to crash on the coast where it is more conducive to recovery. Yes, people have recovered from this stage, but you’ll have to take charge of your own recovery. We all come to a similar place symptomatically but from different causes and triggers. Meanwhile applying other people’s advice often doesn’t work, or at least at your current stage. All I can tell you gereally speaking is the most important thing that worked for me at an early stage (also with bad insomnia) was coffee enemas, which I resisted doing for a year. Wha ...
[retrieve this message]

---

Gosh, we’ve all got to feel our way, every body being different. But good technique is key. Right side only, right? 1 quart RO or distilled water, I don’t know how clean your water is. I would start with a level tsp and work up to 2 tbsps tops! I do two back to back, because some say one alone is largely a bowel flush. There is some question about toxins that keep releasing and that may induce stress response afterwards and have to be reabsorbed. Hence two. Also, many help their CEs and toxins liberated with a little diatomaceous earth (esp. if parasites are present) or chlorella ...
[retrieve this message]

---

1. Coffe enemas EXCELLENT idea. Whatever you have done to yourself that might be detoxing too hard CEs will reduce the symptoms. 2. Try small amounts of live culture kefir if you can find it. It recolonises bad yeast with good. Pills don’t. But go low and slow. Metals bind to bad bacteria so you may be having a bad metal detox reaction. 3. Research EVERYTHING your doctor gives you. Piling on more protocols just give your body more to rebalance. 4. balancing electrolytes is good if you have AF. I like Trace Minerals. Magnesium glycinate or malate separetly may help ca ...
[retrieve this message]

---

Many many causes. My saliva test showed ramped up glutamate from baseline, and lower histamines. Possibly from pills and metal detox. I tried EVERYTHING on here. Nothing worked except for coffee enemas (sorry!). They really helped my liver clearance. Our protocols pull toxins / metals from cells into blood which circulate around body every 3 1/2 mintes causing stress reactions and stress hormones until they clear or are reabsorbed. High cortisol, high adrenaline, glutamate and histamines are all causes of insomnia but each one feels different in the middle of the night. Che ...
[retrieve this message]

---

Sounds like you’re stuck in fight or flight. Tinkering with brain chemistry may be another impure thought! ;) I would focus on parasympathetic breathing and mindfulness, and gradually make carefully considered dietary and lifestyle changes. Low and slow will give you less to undo and allow the brain to rebalance naturally. Your question makes me wonder what interventions you’ve already tried that have further imbalanced natural balancing mechanisms of which we understand so little. Why not try some magnesium, lemon balm tea, Rescue Remedy or any number of benign ways to cal ...
[retrieve this message]

---

Yeah, not sure what you mean by liver movement, and can’t swear that the noises I hear are anything but fluids I’ve introduced. All I know is months of wicked insomnia brought on by detox went off like a light three days into CEs. I guess I would try to evaluate their success without leaning too hard on an interpretation of the fireworks that occur during one. I suspect the dialysis effect is powerful and silent. No need for stethoscopes to see the benefit on my healing. I should add that I did one a day for six months, but the healing really accelerated when I went to two back to ba ...
[retrieve this message]

---

Hi, Steve How long have you been doing CEs? It took me five or six months to get the real decongestion feelings on both sides (while laying on my right)--especially after I increased to two CEs back to back. The flushing of the first increases the absorption of the second. As for right vs left, I have read posts where diagrams are supplied but I still don’t see the reasoning. I’m falling back on Dr. Gerson’s decades of clinical practice. More adventurous types than I do get creative with enemas, but I continue to worry that left side is a colonic and can wash out flora. Rgds
[retrieve this message]

---

God knows...but the answer is right side and right side ONLY.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Histamines likelier than parasites... Research high histamine foods.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Stop the suspect foods and CEs until everything quietens down. Then I would try the CEs again on a low dose of coffee. Your water is distilled/RO, yes? And I wouldn’t do a yogurt enema, either, in case you’re reacting to that. Good water alone if you want a clean-out. You don’t need to worry about replacing flora after a right-side CE...Take a probiotic pill for now if you want.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

The people I talk to back from the Gerson program in Mexico say the juicing is for the cleansing. This electrolyte loss fear is waaaay overdone. A few people crash and that is due to, guess what, a cleansing reaction, not electrolyte loss.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

”Liver flushes may also truly be the only way to set your body up for long-term healing.” People on these forums are very impatient, love to go at protocols hard and game their systems. Then they repent at leisure. I would stick with Coffee Enemas for now, that’s quite a lot. If you are doing one or two CEs a day and are not a vegetarian or following chemo treatment this electrolyte loss fear is over done. These are good ideas above for replenishing, also try ionic trace minerals. The crashing one feels is a detox reaction, which may be appropriate for your level of toxicit ...
[retrieve this message]

---

Yes, you are stimulating yourself. You will feel better while you mainline cortisol. This is not the path of long-term recovery. You are trying to game your system like so many on here.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Absolutely, and very beneficial.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

For that reason I avoid the flushes, which are like coffee enemas on steroids. Coffee enemas are a gentle and excellent idea, and I would do two back to back as often as you can.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Honestly, I would focus on reducing the body’s mighty toxic load and inflammation before I play with balancing the body’s balancing mechanisms with pills. Bet Dr. Wilson didn’t write that! Look for Zinc in organic foods. So easy to bring on other symptoms and then be lost trying to link causes with effects with something as complex as AF.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

The body detoxifies what it can, when it can. As the adrenals heal and more energy becomes available, that metabolic function increases and copper along with other metals and toxins are released from sequestration. Depending on how well the liver can clear toxins there will be a period of months of increased symptoms due to detox. Caffeine enemas reduce these symptoms, and act like a form of dialysis through the gut wall, otherwise oxidative damage occurs until excess toxins and metals can be redistributed among the tissues until the liver can catch up.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

NO!!!!! It must be organic or who knows what chemicals and pesticides you will absorb. Drinking vs enemas totally different pathways. http://drlwilson.com/articles/COFFEE%20ENEMA.HTM   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Vegetarians need to watch B-12 and electrolyte levels with CEs. Here is a nice summary that also mentions diverticuli... http://drlwilson.com/articles/COFFEE%20ENEMA.HTM   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Totally concur. Caffeine enemas ended 18 months of insomnia and finally started healing my adrenals by improving liver clearance. So many of my symptoms were from detox in late stage AF. But take it from Gerson--lie on the RIGHT side.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Bad reaction to caffeine or caffeine enemas? Most with sensitivities to drinking the stuff have no problem taking caffeine enemas. Would start with small amount.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Hi, CA! Sounds like you’re on a good track. I can only address some of your questions. I try to keep it simple for my Adrenal Fatigue / detox needs and follow the Gerson protocol very closely since they have so much experience. 1. They are clear, only RO or distilled water to guard against absorbing anything unwanted. 2. Right side ONLY for caffeine enemas. Frequent left side / colonics will deplete flora as you know. Can you get your daily elimination by avoiding left/side colonics and do simple bowel evacuations by remaining on your back? Then, cleaned out, you could try ...
[retrieve this message]

---

Yes, don’t eat a lot of cilantro! Do research and follow a comprehensive protocol that is right for you.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

What about Jersey? A remote Naturopath should be able to mail you the test kit. You are responsible for mailing the completed kit to the lab anyway. It is performed at home. Critical that you do this just to confirm a diagnosis of AF before you start changing hormone levels. So many many many causes of insomnia. Magnesium Malate is benign and good for trauma and sleep. Stress makes us dump this to keep us alert, so critical you reduce any post traumatic stress to enable you to absorb calming minerals already in your diet.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Yes, for God’s sake don’t mess with your cortisol until you even know it’s at issue. Chances are--IF IT IS--it’s reacting to something else underlying you’d be better off addressing. Plus there are other hormones that could be keeping you awake and you’ll only unbalance yourself further. Research histamines, copper, glutamate, adrenaline, and finally detox which is a big deal for all AF people. Try some Magnesium Malate in the mean time. The hypos will go on their own with rest and some tweaking to your diet. Low and slow! Patience, not pills (with a few well-considered exceptions)...
[retrieve this message]

---

Yes, isolate stressors and causes of inflammation, and let the body recover / rebalance naturally. Too many people turning their bodies into chemlabs...causing more stress, and more to rebalance.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Yup. HI got worse and worse as I recovered, I suspect now due to detox. Was completely eliminated with caffeine enemas, which I had heard about but resisted for a long time. Also eliminated insomnia virtually 100%.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Hi, can’t address your question directly, but whatever you do I would research and cut back on high estrogen foods and introduce more high progesterone foods--organic. Low and slow -- the natural way. Progesterone is turned into cortisol when you are stressed and is probably not a source for your insomnia, so I would look into what the high cortisol is trying to balance or tamp down...there are other stress hormones, too, that could be keeping you awake.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

I would refer readers to your post 2 weeks ago when you wondered if you were crashing your own B-12 and ”Moderator” gave you a very balanced answer. Also checked with a friend who just got back from Gerson and she said: ”Part of the Gerson regime are those B12 shots every couple of days. The reason they give is the assumption that all cancer patients are slightly anemic and that the B12 is needed to help restore the hemoglobin content of the blood, not that CE’s reduce your level. But people should be tested to see if they need it or not. After doing them for several months I d ...
[retrieve this message]

---

But back to my basic question... Anyone with detox symptoms... Do the CEs ever, however briefly, cause an increase in symptoms? Do detox symptoms ever develop after a CE? Has anyone had more than one CE during the day to address this? With improvement?   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Thanks, HM. I’m one of those few oversensitive people that doesn’t do well trying to play the balance game with supps and precursors. It’s all low and slow with organic food and listen to the body. (Oh, and lots of magnesium!) No doubt the CEs have had a dramatic positive effect. I’ve probably had liver clearance issues my whole life since that hospital infection on my birth day! I think seasonal inhalant and food allergies are other tip-offs that the liver needs some work before clearing tissue toxicity. A lot of the supplement protocols on AF sites cause havoc with detox and the l ...
[retrieve this message]

---

My issue wasn’t the enzyme, it made no difference. The histamine blockers did nothing also. It seems that as histamines are important for cellular permeability and deliver immune factors to where there is inflammation / infection, they have their job to do. My histamines didn’t quiet down until I helped with the detox reaction--CEs, and not only low-histamine foods but foods that inflame me or pull more from tissues. And then the body seems to do heavy-duty detox in waves so there are days when histamines become elevated despite best efforts.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Hi, Monroe I’m a refugee from the AF forum so don’t know much about liver flushing. Insomnia has many layers but mine follows a pattern so I’m not sure ongoing long-term congestion is my issue. Mine involves elevation of excitatory hormones you can FEEL in your head for a starter. You have the kind of insomnia I have most of the time now (but only 3 or 4 days out of 10). For example slept great last night and I changed nothing. I think the body detoxes what it can when it can and then pauses (at least from the heavy lifting of long sequestered toxins and metals). I know supps, h ...
[retrieve this message]

---

Yup, that is probably my next option. The theory on these things (and overwhelming experience) is no caffeine stimulation from CEs of the jittery kind. It’s the detox component that has me scratching my head. It’s different for everybody.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Yup, it’s what I’m dealing with and a lot of late stagers who have detox kick in big time after so much down time with reduced detox and sequestered toxins and metals. As this toxic load reenters the blood stream and circulates you get lots of stress reactions, usually combos of cortisol, histamine (which helps get immune factors to areas of inflammation), adrenaline (which tamps down histamines), glutamate etc. While you are digging around for deepest causes of inflammation it helps to go low histamine (diet) for awhile...   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Hi, started daily coffee enemas about 3 weeks ago after many on AF forum said it would help with detox symptoms in the last stages of AF recovery. I’ve got to say that I felt wonderful on them. Not stimulated, but supported with calming, level energy, and my insomnia (which presents with other detox symptoms) went away. I’ve had a on/off again mix of onset and also waking up for good at 3-ish shortly after being diagnosed with AF 18 months ago and going on Kavinace and other supps. All sleep aids have no effect. A saliva re-test showed my glutamate was elevated--possibly from exce ...
[retrieve this message]

---

Hi, started daily coffee enemas about 3 weeks ago after many on the adrenal fatigue forum said it would help with detox symptoms in the last stages of AF recovery. I’ve got to say that I felt wonderful on them. Not stimulating, but supportive of level energy, and my insomnia after 16 months went away. I’ve had a on/off again mix of onset insomnia and also waking up for good at 3-ish since diagnosed with AF. All sleep aids have no effect. Saliva re-test showed my glutamate was elevated--possibly from excess taurine in supps or detox reaction to copper etc.? 1 week ago started ...
[retrieve this message]

---

Piuma, you’re aproaching this waaay too simplistically. If you are going to stampede in with cortisol treatments get a saliva test to confirm cortisol first. Realize that these symptoms are part of an interplay of hormones. Supplements are inferior to targeted organic food and give your body/brain more to rebalance. I had mood swings and mild hypos once I started to seriously rest and then I slowly rebalanced. But the mood swings can return when you regain strength and your body starts to seriously detox.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Sorry, just saw your post. I’m not sure the supplements did a damn bit of good in the end. I’m not sure they were even absorbed and, if they were, just gave my brain more to rebalance. I ate every two hours or when hungry. Yes, and emphasis on slow refeeding with easy carbs esp. potatoes. Slowly got off casein and gluten because it was elevating glutamate for me. It’s trial and error, but with rest and rebalancing I got back to normal blood sugar and feeding times. But insomnia still a factor now with detox, which comes back online when the body gets stronger. Acid reflux should cal ...
[retrieve this message]

---

Not a bit. Initially fatigue, fatigue, fatigue. Mild hypos for first few months following flu and onset of symptoms. Now with energy better, other symptoms present. Hence my thought this is detox as metabolism comes up--feels like a lifetime’s worth. (Saliva: Low cortisol, epi, norepi, sero, dopa.)   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

To recap, insomnia started 3 months into taking precursors / usual supps. After 9 months of struggling, I cut out ALL pills and concentrated on organic food sources and cut insomnia in half. Then eliminated high histamine, high glutamate, and high copper foods to put the rest of the insomnia to bed! Now 16 months in, energy is 60%+ improved overall, but bad insomnia started up again out of the blue--also, moodswings, tinnitus, achy hands and gen’l weakness, skin breakouts on back, and odd smelling urine. Two large glasses RO water eliminates the achiness / weakness within 10 minut ...
[retrieve this message]

---

Like I said, we have all joined the very loooong list of people who have taken vitamin isolates because it ”worked” for someone else. Look for foods with B5 and C and build up SLOWLY.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Yes, EFT and depending on the cause of your insomnia it may work wonderfully or not at all. It did nothing for me in the face of elevated adrenaline and glutamate...   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

”Energy boosts” don’t sound good. Dr. Lam talks about levelling out energy swings as you begin to repair. In my case I levelled out and down somewhat before slowly rebalancing, with very minor intraday changes and dips, but no ”crashes”. As for supplements, there are many knowledgeable people on this site that I have learned a lot from. But in my case trying to rebalance my body’s balancing mechanism with trial and error involving pill protocols, herbs and other heavy handed interventions may have pushed me into 9 months of insmnia (still wondering about role of copper / detox). I ha ...
[retrieve this message]

---

Many who cut carbs (easy energy) to that level are carried by adrenaline. Be careful with low carbing if you have AF. Low carbing can bring on or worsen AF.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Hi, Ten! Noticed insomnia returned when I snacked on certain foods. You mentioned chocolate, also nuts for me. Guess what--both high in copper! Checked my saliva retest--drop in histamines for which one cause is high copper! My seasona allergies disappeared with AF--a symptom of histapenia caused by copper. You may remember I poked a lot of fun at the copper cultists. Anyway, lightening up on high copper foods restored the good sleep. I was also eating a lot of sweet potato, salmon and avocado--all high copper. Also still off high glutamate foods temporarily until levels drop. S ...
[retrieve this message]

---

Sanity, you are so right. What a different world this would be if the average American got another three hours sleep :)   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Agreed, agreed, agreed!!! Never heard of that type of juicer--will look into it. You probably don’t have to worry in the Eurozone, but lots of people here start juicing only to learn they are mainlining Roundup! (Thank you Monsanto.) So you were deficient in HCL? Try some bitters, too. They stimulate secretion of the enzymes without replacing the bodies production. I only read about long-term enzyme pills for those talked into gallbladder removal by those swell doctors you admire so much!!!   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Have now gotten 30 days in a row of good sleep after 7 months averaging 2 or 3 all nighters a week. Insomnia (which I rarely had before AF) kicked in after 3 months of precursors. I tried giving up EVERYTHING for a couple weeks but insomnia continued unabated so I reintroduced everything too soon. This second attempt took me 5-6 weeks on nothing but food to level out (”Let food be your medicine”). Another thing about food--it is ”low and slow” by definition. About that time a retest (which I should have done sooner, but I felt so lousy) showed improved inhibitory neuros, perhaps f ...
[retrieve this message]

---

Well, there is an easy test with dosing to determine if you need HCL. You can get enzyme pills without HCL. Be careful of bromelain sensitivity however, it’s common. A funny thing--whole grains, peas, mushrooms, and nuts are ALL VERY HIGH in glutamate. That’s my #1 suspect now--high glutamate and a possible imbalance with GABA. I am avoiding wheat and oats, mushrooms, peas, broccoli, and cheese for a few weeks to see what happens with insomnia etc.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Wired, what’s the knock on multis? All supplements introduce the problem of cofactors etc. and aren’t multis so low in dose as to be less problematic?   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Dunno, I have the raw numbers from the retest. GABA was up with Glutamate, but no one can tell me the ratio that constitutes ”balamce”. You can’t go by eyeballing the bar chart because the lab scales that so it all looks neat. But drawn out to their scale, Taurine (”100% of ref range”) was a couple inches to the right of the booklet’s page! Yes it’s all pissed out in hours, but what did it do to GABA/Glutamate mean time? You talk about Ashwagandha--that’s a GABA antagonist while taurine is a GABA agonist! I took them together for about three months. Benzo buddies, here I come! :)   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

I hear you! Going over to Benzobuddies to see if I have been having paradoxical reactions to Taurine. I keep finding it hidden in supplements...and with kavinace and diet alone I’ve probably been in excess of 1500 mg daily for almost a year...   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Interesting, thanks Wired!   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

EVERYBODY seems to love taurine on the forums. But there is this study... Taurine administration results in an imbalance in inhibitory and excitatory neurotransmission in the glutamatergic (hippocampus) and GABAergic (striatum) brain structures, affecting more markedly the neurotransmitter precursors. (from http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18605241) I thought taurine was inhibitory to glutamate toxicity.  Am I not interpreting this right? Or has anyone else had problems with taurine, especially relating to elevated glutamate / possibly insomnia?   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Thanks for that suggestion, TC, I know you mentioned it before. I will probably, but am still puzzling glutmate and why it suddenly elevated in the retest. The 1 bad night in seven has suddenly become every other night as my adrenal fatigue has much improved. Maybe I need more damn walks and fewer pills?   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Can anyone confirm that glycerin caps AND gelatin caps contain glutamate? And binders in other pills, too? So anyone with elevated glutamate might need to stop ALL pills to reduce it? Has anyone successfully lowered glutamate with NAC and/or diet or something else? I was normal glutamate on my baseline and then elevated Glutamate / Gaba 5 months into precursors. It seems that taurine -- which everybody loves -- can elevate glutamate. And here it was in a lot of my supps and HUGE in my diet. Taurine was the last thing I should have been supplementing. So excess taurine is excret ...
[retrieve this message]

---

Hey, TC. Do you mean tests show worsening AF? What markers worsened? I’m still stuck at the improved one day of insomnia in 7 because, idiotic as it sounds, I sweat that seventh night as the record breaker and wind up keeping myself awake. Blood tests came in with no underlying infection or virus, but high allergic inflammation. So new tests to identify foods or environmental factors. CRP also gone up from 1.6 to 2.6. Dunno if allergies can explain all of elevated glutamate, insomnia, and that degree of inflammation. Wouldn’t blood tests for inflammation be peeling back a layer ...
[retrieve this message]

---

Everything new. Was taking one OL before, and two Kav before. Like someone on the forum said, ”My (fill in the blank sleep aid) only worked for 3 days!” I concluded mine didn’t work at all because the insomnia was on some inflammatory/immune cycle. It only seemed to work when I didn’t need it. When the 2-3 days of insomnia kicked in nothing worked. So I may have peeled back another layer to look at underlying inflammation and am attacking that. The one bad day in seven is when I get worked up about something. So, for now, I still have a hair trigger brain... So I’m going to say ...
[retrieve this message]

---

Nothing is simple! Upon deeper reflection I feel I am 90% Vatta. I am 9 months with adrenal fatigue and trying to tamp down inflammation to rid myself of insomnia (elevated cortisol, glutamate,histamines) and continue rebuilding strength. I’ve been swallowing a tbl spoon of coconut oil because everyone says it’s wonderful and I have trouble digesting fats after a lifetime following a low fat diet. Maybe I should continue to swish with sesame but give up the coconut oil? It never went down easy!   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

I was afraid you were going to give me a balanced answer! I’m a different dosha depending on which questionnaire I take. If I am Vatta Pitta (Vatta comes up most often), can you tell me what I would see using sesame oil if it’s turned negative for me and I should switch to coconut or sunflower? The bad reactions you mentioned above? Thanks again.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Yeah, it’s scary how fast things get bad and then get better with AF, but something feels different. I got rid of two-thirds of my pills to arrive at the below. I will re-intro D3, multis, B multi, etc. as soon as the insomnia is gone and I can reintro one at a time. For now... Gaia Olive Leaf (900mg per pill) 1 pill 3x a day before meals Mg Cit 200 mg 2 with brekkie, 2 w dinner 1000 mg Lipo C plus 240mg Amla C before lunch Gaia ”Turmeric Supreme” (about 500 mg) 1 with lunch 15 mg food Zinc with lunch Lemon Balm drops in water or Chamo tea before bed 1 Kav before bed 1 Lact ...
[retrieve this message]

---

I thought the Ayurvedic texts only mentioned sesame. When would you want to use a cooling oil, inflamed gums? Abcesses? When would you want to heat up? Thanks.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Hey, TC...I am no3 down to one bad night in seven. Took some blood tests to nail down types of possible inflammation in the body. Got tired waiting for the results! (Some problem between clinic and lab!) So I started Olive Leaf, curcumin and lemon balm--plus one of my fave Kavinace. First thing besides sleeping better--noticed normal drowsiness (not so quick to come and go), and onset of hypos. Speculate that OL decreased some inflammation somewhere and cortisol slipped back as a result, and the cortisol pills I was taking were now unnecessary. Glutamate may also be down with inflam ...
[retrieve this message]

---

Before addressing anything I would get the simple series of blood tests that checks for types of inflammation. I like olive leaf, curcumin and lemon balm best. The latter de-stresses as well bring anti-viral properties to bear.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Wow, Faith, superb post. I second your conclusions. Very early in my NB program I exhibited poor ”compliance” and was dumped by my copper guru. I have done much better on precursors, and eating better while working on stress response which, according to the lab report with my hair analysis, is why my body was dumping minerals--to support the sympathetic state I was locked in. I would be so wary of off-the-shelf programs like NB. Thanks again for your post.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Seriously? Vernon and Wilson never ”cured” their AF? And people still slavishly follow their dogma??! I sent a desperate email to my hair analysis guru that he ignored...best thing he ever did for me!   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

But you don’t know enough to say that--how much quantity of cortisol do you need to produce a quantity of effect? You can’t produce large quantities for an extended period is safe to say. I would throw out the blood test results. I have ”white cost syndrome” too when it comes to blood pressure cuffs.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Speaking for myself, I had to get much deeper into a chronic condition before I had your level of awareness and cause and effect. What I’m focusing on now is systemic inflammation --viral, bacterial, parasitic etc. -- we all pick up over the years that run in the background and rev our immune system / adrenals. Unburdening that extra load may give your energy back.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Someone pointed out that it’s problematic to knock down cortisol, glutamate, histamines until we know why they are elevated. I upped my olive leaf and switched to lactium (which still has some cortisol lowering effect) and lemon balm. Dumped the PS and adaptogens. Still taking one Kav, TC, `tho will eliminate that next. Slept 10 great nights in the last 12. Neatest thing, tiredness before bedtime now feels ”normal”. I used to feel super drowsy on all the old pills but with the first anxious thoughts ”will this be a bad night?”, the drowsy would evaporate and I would be level and ...
[retrieve this message]

---

How `bout bitters or lipase for the steat?   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

If you’re looking at every ache and pain thru the lens of ”copper detox” and the only proof of ”toxicity” is a low copper reading on a hair analysis you should get some blood tests to confirm.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

A lot of people on other forums have an onset of chronic neural / chemical issues that surface after long flights, but that trigger is often preceded by months of a particularly stressful time. It seems more and more like it is a personalized accumulation of stressors which you have to disentangle and rest, then you can add back stressors with moderation and balance. awareness   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Interesting, TC. We all know correlation isn’t causation. I’m wondering about UNDERLYING causes of elevated nighttime cortisol, or glutamate or adrenaline besides the common cause of hypos. Systemic inflammation? Infection? Allergies in food or environment? Stealth viruses as Dr. Lam suggested? The stressors pile on and then have to be disentangled. TC--do you keep a sleep log? Have you noticed ANY broad patterns to your insomnia Mine for 5 months now is 4-7 good days followed by 1-3 bad days. NOTHING I do or take or don’t take alters this, at best adds or subtracts a few h ...
[retrieve this message]

---

Unbelievable! Here I thought you would want to take C later in the day when cortisol is elevated...I’ve been taking 1000mg at night. Maybe that’s a part of my problem. So how do all those people megadosing on liposomal C get their shuteye?! TC I would think your stomach could tolerate some low dose food C.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Hey TC, I had low GABA, too. But it came roaring back on the Kavinace. Funny, the low GABA, serotonin and dopamine were completely restored in five months or so. Low epi, norepi, and DHEA are a lot tougher to raise, and high cortisol to lower. The idiot lab changed their methodology on DHEA from measuring one vial in the morning to taking an average of all four times, and since I was measuring nighttime cortisol they averaged 1am with 9am, so I got a drop in DHEA compared with baseline. Question--in your state, how much C are you doing and when? Too early in the day and it lowers c ...
[retrieve this message]

---

Thanks, TC. Didn’t I read that you are recuperating at home, and your dad is coming around with more empathy and understanding? Are you carrying tension at home or can you relax and recupe there? Funny I came into this world (1960) with WW1 flashbacks, so I laughed when the ND said I have the neuro levels of someone with PTSD. Easier said than done that we will reset HPA pathways when we can’t interpret basic results on a test. But I think it probable that the body heals itself while we tinker with brain chemistry unless we tinker too much. Cause and effect here is a nightmare. ...
[retrieve this message]

---

I really appreciate everyone’s feedback, especially as the pattern has changed again and I have had 12 hours sleep since monday morning. I get that with AF we are dealing mostly with unknowns, but after spending $500 on a saliva test I can not even esatblish from the raw units of GABA and glutamate whether an imbalance is indicated? I am taking NAC to lower glut in the brain, and using theanine, curcumin, mg, zn to block receptor sites -- and the sleep may be worsening. Not surprised when I can’t even say with assurance I have an imbalance. Tenacious you thought you might try ...
[retrieve this message]

---

When we talk about GABA / Glutamate balance does anyone know how that’s measured? The saliva test graphs me against a reference range of other happy customers, but how do we measure an imbalance? The test gives my units as... 1st test - July: GABA 3.5 pico Mol/gCr Glut 22.3 2nd test - Jan: GABA 7.4 Glut 50.9 Reference range says I’m low GABA normal glutamate to begin with, now high glautamate normal GABA. Not helpful. Now entering 5th month of insomnia -- roughly every fourth night. I sleep like a baby other three nights. On the ...
[retrieve this message]

---

Isn’t a root cause of elevated glutamate for many simply inflammation? Wouldn’t blood tests be the next step to identify the nature of this inflammation, whether infection, intestinal or food/environment? The NB types suggest GABA/Glut imbalance can be caused by copper toxicity, and detox in general.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Fair enough. But there are what over 80 hormones affected by AF? We only test for a half dozen, only cortisol over the course of a day. I just learned from a retest my glutamate is elevated. Different protocol from Cortisol. And it wasn’t elevated in my baseline test. So in my efforts to rebalance the body’s balancing mechanism I’ve thrown something out of balance and triggered insomnia. There is more than cortisol and adrenaline going on guys and gals...oh, and copper...and histamines.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Assume you’re taking food C. Have you checked your DHEA?   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Well..... If no one can answer these basic questions,we are just winging it with all these pills. And if the body feels better we promote those pills we were taking coincident with our feelings (temporary?) of improvement. Unless someone is testing levels frequently at $500 a pop?   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

If you are eating a low-carb/no-carb diet, chances are you are releasing adrenaline to make up the deficit in energy.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Can anyone tell me 1. if cortisol and adrenaline always elevate together? Or one right behind the other? 2. if your cortisol rises at the wrong time and you knock it down with something that reduces cortisol how does adrenaline respond? 3. Can anyone accurately tell by feel, ”Yes, that is adrenaline I’m feeling or, nope, that is what hisgh cortisol feels like.” 4. How can one tell how much P Serine or Holy Basil or C or Zinc or Melatonin or a combination to dose for a given level of cortisol without driving it too low and engaging adrenaline which I believe is another r ...
[retrieve this message]

---

You’re cortisol isn’t building earlier in the evening? Why not head it off sooner? In terms of knocking down morning cortisol I’m told the Phosphatidyl S. has a short life of a few hour. Another herb is magnolia bark. But I wouldn’t wait until midnight...   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Thanks for the good wishes! Why do you think P. serine made your AF worse? Did your saliva test show elevated cortisol in the evening? Can you sleep without it or are you doing something else instead of it?   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

No doubt there are plenty of emotional issues underlying our condition. I get the cortisol rush around 5pm and wish, by bedtime, I could just keep my anxiety about sleep from piling on cortisol and anxiety. Maybe higher C and Zinc in the late afternoon, and a higher dose of phosphatidyl come bedtime. Actualy last time I had a curry, the spices kept me awake!!! How’s the candida, Greg?   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

I second that high carb motion. I feel the dietary stress immediately I eat no or low carbs. Low carbs are fine for people with lots of adrenaline looking for a short-term reset.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Also, Greg, the itching has gone waay down since I dropped my brand of digestive enzymes which had a lot of bromelain (”pineapple allergy”). I noticed itching was coming on two hours after eating (and ingesting enzyme pill). Mmmmmmmmm chicken biriyani....... John   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Excellent, Greg! There’s nothing a good curry cannot cure! I banned the tv from the bedroom years ago. And didn’t someone say you should orient your bed north-south?! The point here is I chucked my sleep log long ago trying to find patterns, but I do know that my mind (and emotions) may be the missing link. I have AF because I came out of the womb revved, and it is still takes very little to get anxiety ramped up and feeding on itself. Having said that, it does feel like there are three or four days in ten when some excitatory neurotrasmitter(s) are running in the background and mak ...
[retrieve this message]

---

Hi, Greg A few points: 1.I’ve tried all those things for insomnia. Some of them do have paradoxical reactions and cause insomnia. Especially B6 and 5HTP which some say elevates cortisol. Have you tried dropping everything and adding back one at a time? 2. My AF list of insomnia triggers now include: low melatonin, low serotonin; low GABA; low or high cortisol; high glutamate; high histamine; detox (adrenaline); a combo. Have you had a saliva test to see where other neurotransmitters are? 3. I’m not clear on the relationship, but isn’t one either high copper or high hista ...
[retrieve this message]

---

You’re welcome, and keep us posted. Halfway thru recovery of my energy insomnia hit me out of nowhere so I’m about to retest cortisol but in the evening. I’d love to know if the Seriphos can reprogram evening cortisol without affecting morning cortisol because I might be trying this next. Good luck!   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

I get the racing mind off and on. keep in mind other causes of insomnia... 1. Low serotonin, melatonin 2. Low GABA 3. Low / high cortisol 4. High glutamate 5. High histamines 6. Detox 7. some combo Probably would help narrow suspects thru a saliva test.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Watch Holy Basil -- it’s supposed to aggravate hypoglycemia. It’s usually only taken by those who don’t tolerate Seriphos, not with it. Julia Ross has a protocol though I haven’t tried it--Seriphos 4-6 hours before bedtime or before wake up time. Lactium with Seriphos for fast acting relief when the cortisol ramps up.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Just read that high copper people have low histamine and vice versa, unless I am interpreting this too simply. But it sounds like it is one or the other. When you are not sure isn’t a couple benadryl an effective test? How does AF cause histamine problems?   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

And casein, too! I’ve managed to switch to raw goat’s milk yogurt, which I probably overindulge. You were right about histamines! Became super aware of constant itching the other night and Benadryl quietened it down 95% within minutes. As far as copper detox, goes, I always read when it starts it’s a rough ride and you can’t stop it only try to lessen its severity. But this pattern insomnia is my only classic detox symptom apart from severe fatigue, and it stops and starts abruptly as if to a schedule--regardless of what I eat. Will get the ceruloplasmin test next week and report bac ...
[retrieve this message]

---

Hi, Greg Further to your post about my insomnia, with this big investment in time and energy eliminating copper it would be great to get a second opinion to back up the NB interpretation, like a ceruloplasmin test. Having said that, you might have something about the histamines after all. On insomnia nights I am itching my ears and nose like crazy! Since histamine effect is cumulative, can’t you slowly eliminate down a list of worst offenders and if you feel improvement you have the culprit--until a ceruloplasmin test confirms copper? MY ND tested several ”hidden copper toxicity” p ...
[retrieve this message]

---

Yeah, good considerations. I don’t have any of the symptoms of histamine intolerance, unless it’s to a lesser degree. And `tho I don’t know a lot of the differences, this feels less like hard charging adrenaline and more like a gentle rise in cortisol from mid afternoon on... My hair analysis said--like so many others--so low copper as to have a hidden toxicity, but then that implicates adrenaline again, unless cortisol is secreted, too. Going to have my ND do a ceruloplasmin test. She is down on NB because she has tested several ”hidden copper toxicity” folks who were found to be t ...
[retrieve this message]

---

Has anyone hit a wall of insomnia AFTER adrenal improvement, like a cycling up of energy with nowhere to go? I have low average cortisol, with a less steep curve than ideal leaving excess cortisol in the late afternoon. I need to test evening levels of cortisol and adrenaline. Other hormones are low--epi, norepi,gaba,serotonin, dopamine. Four months into taking precursors my swings have levelled out and my energy was slowly increasing, but the last two months I have hit a wall--4 days of insomnia (avg 2-3 hours per night) followed by a week of good sleep, then repeat. I’ve read about ...
[retrieve this message]

---