There was no ”abuse” in my post, I was giving my opinion on what you wrote in your post, and in general about the way you yourself use labels, but continually expect others not to. In order to make it known who I am talking to, or about, I use either ”you”, if I am replying to a person directly, or I use the name of a group, such as ”anti-vaccinationists”, when I am describing the activities or views of a group, that hold the same views as each other. I’m sorry you chose to take my post as offensive, (I consider it to have been blunt, but not abusive), and have edited my post to remo ...
[retrieve this message]

---

I have edited my post to remove any breaches of TOS, that may have occurred, I have put in the word (edit), to show where I have made changes, and also changed the subject line, to show this post has been edited. spud   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Mira I’ve seen the articles, (and I use this term loosely), that you have been posting, and have seen you and others trying to justify the position you have taken. I still don’t buy it, and thankfully the majority of people in both our countries, don’t buy it either. The children in the developing world are dying from vaccine preventable diseases, not from a lack of sanitation, or food, or clean water, although these factors are contributing to the easy spread of these pathogens. Millions of children die each year, which anti-vaccinationists, (edit) dismiss, as if their lives are wor ...
[retrieve this message]

---

Your post is full of unproven nonsense Mira, but if you want to believe rubbish, its up to you. I guess you’ve been infected with the conspiracy disease here on CZ, so sad. Hope you get better soon. Bye now, spud   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

love ACDC, your dynamite B&G, a power load :) spud [Video Embedded Here]   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Hi Mira, its never hard saying nice things about you, you are a nice person. I’ll be taking a break from CZ for a while, I have a lot of work to do, and I do get weary of the not so nice people here. People like you and B&G, and a few others on CZ, are like diamonds in a pile of rocks, you guys shine. I’m with B&G on the issue of vaccines, its very easy for those in comfortable western countries, to dismiss the millions of children that die from vaccine preventable deaths, every year, in developing countries. Personally this callous disregard sickens me, I’ve lived in many of thos ...
[retrieve this message]

---

I’ll definitely keep you in the Loop B&G, but I will be taking a break from CZ, to get my information together into something that is readable and interesting. I will be putting together a study to be submitted to a University here, which will also be tabled in Parliament. After peer review the article will be publicly available, but I’ll send yourself, and a few others and advance copy :). I will also be writing several articles for the an Autism support group, also in Australia, I have done a lot of work with this group in the past and very much enjoy working with the people involved ...
[retrieve this message]

---

I have found the same thing 13...., this is something that I brought this up with the WM many months ago, it seems that nothing has changed. spud   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

My Daughter and Grandchildren, have had the vaccinations that are suggested for children in the early years of their lives. (This is what I mean by fully vaccinated.) They do not have flu vaccinations, as my Daughter does not think this necessary, and I agree with her. I didn’t receive any vaccinations at all, until I was almost 8 years old, after which time, I received polio, smallpox, and tetanus vaccines. When I was a teenager, I received rubella vaccine, and had a tetanus booster vaccine. I also do not have flu vaccines at all, as I do not think that the benefits outweigh the ris ...
[retrieve this message]

---

Thank you B&G, you have always had my respect, and continue to do so. We all come to issues, like vaccination, from our own knowledge and experience, this is what forms our views. It has been good to see the views of others, and where those views arise from, I’ve gained a lot of insight into why people hold these views, and will be using these insights in a research project I am currently involved in. (although no user names or individual posts will be used at all). There is a bigger picture to this debate, and that is something that I will be researching further. If you’re inter ...
[retrieve this message]

---

Excellent web site ;) Nice to see some counter to the misinformation, and lies of the MMS promoters. spud   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

”none but ourselves can free our minds” Bob Marley spud [Video Embedded Here]   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Nice to see you Willow, you are of course entitled to your opinion, although I don’t agree. Interesting to see who is entering this forum to join in the debate. I have posted all I wanted to post, and have gained a lot of insights and information over the last couple of weeks, and don’t need to continually go over the same ground, so I’ll be leaving the debate for now. All the best from me :) spud   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

I haven’t read that supposedly ”evil” statement, do you have a reference with the statement in context? Nice try at justifying ad hominem attacks, what a pity that view isn’t applied to all the posts in this forum. I guess like many here, you only want to see information and people that support your own views. This is what the forum will return to, a propaganda forum for the views of those that are the majority here, this exercise has been useful, but not something I wish to see go an and on, I find it boring to simply make the same replies to the same people. Particularly those tha ...
[retrieve this message]

---

Didn’t realise my name was mentioned in the WM forum, then I discover its not. Just someone trying to shut down this forum because they disagree with what’s posted here, by some posters. Thanks for supporting free speech, that is an issue that is important to me as well. I saw the WM’s reply, very good. I’m quite used to people disagreeing DQ, and that doesn’t bother me. It does give some very interesting insight into human nature though, when I see how some people react when challenged to provide credible argument, and they have nothing. Its also an excellent psychological study, a ...
[retrieve this message]

---

Very good news, its good to see these agencies doing their job, and making vaccines as safe as possible. spud   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

You are entitled to your opinion DQ, I don’t share it. spud   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Back to the ad hominem attacks, oh well. spud   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Thanks for adding the Author, its good to give credit to the writer, although it is there at the website the link takes you too. spud   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

http://lizditz.typepad.com/i_speak_of_dreams/2011/01/a-statement-from-paul-offit-md.html Wednesday, January 05, 2011 A Statement from Paul Offit, MD I received this via email from Dr. Offit: Just for the record: I no longer financially benefit from the sales of RotaTeq. My financial interests in that vaccine have been sold out by either The Wistar Institute, The Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia, or me. I will, however, continue to stand up for the science of vaccines because unfounded fears about vaccines have hurt children. That is why I do what I do and why I have always ...
[retrieve this message]

---

hi Kat, I’m pro some vaccinations, (not all), and my daughter was fully vaccinated, as are my Grandchildren. spud   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

The anti-christ, is that like anti-matter, only imaginary? I kind of figured many here felt that way, the ad hominem attacks came thick and fast, what a pity there was so little truth in them. spud   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

You are implying that because someone has a financial interest in something, that it makes them corrupt and unable to behave in an ethical manner. Dr Offit has been open about his interests, and has done nothing that is either unethical or corrupt, he is also well qualified to do the job. spud   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

That is exactly the point I was making Mira, the article was biased, just like every other post on this forum, and posted by people with their own bias. That is what debate is, two or more views of an issue or topic. If we weren’t biased, we would all agree on everything, and that would be pretty boring. spud   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

I think some people are just not as resilient as others, what one person would be able to work through, others can’t cope with. I also think that people become so desensitised to death, that when someone ends their life, even in the manner this man did, it barely rates a mention. If he had shot himself, it wouldn’t have even been news at all. What a world huh. spud   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Autism’s False Prophets Vaccines don’t cause autism. So why do so many people believe that they do? http://www.babble.com/baby/health-and-safety/autism-and-vaccines-child-health/ A very good article, well balanced, and well researched, worth a read to those interested. spud   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2009/09/paul-offit-explains-the-money-side-of-the-rotavirus-vaccine-he-worked-on/ 14 Sep 2009 Author: Sullivan Paul Offit explains the money side of the rotavirus vaccine he worked on Misinformationists love a vacuum. Unfortunately, Dr. Paul Offit left them a big opening by not disclosing how much his hospital, the Childrens Hospital of Philadelphia (CHOP), paid him as his share of the royalties from the sale of the rights to his rotavirus vaccine invention. Dr. Offit invented a rotavirus vaccine, together with CHOP faculty members ...
[retrieve this message]

---

http://www.unicef.org/immunization/index_why.html Why are children dying? More than 30 million children are unimmunized either because vaccines are unavailable, because health services are poorly provided or inaccessible, or because families are uninformed or misinformed about when and why to bring their children for immunization.Pneumonia, diarrhoea, malaria, measles, HIV/AIDS and malnutrition are the primary killers of children in the developing world. These children die because they are poor, they do not have access to routine immunization or health services, their diets lack su ...
[retrieve this message]

---

I would think anyone who invents anything would deserve any money they earn from that invention. Particularly an invention that will save many lives, and decrease suffering. I for one am glad such a knowledgeable person is on the vaccine safety committee, I’d much rather see good scientists on a committee that deals with safety, than people who have little knowledge. I personally would like to see a vaccine that is 100% safe and effective, but that isn’t going to happen anytime soon. People will just need to weigh the pro’s and con’s up for themselves, as they do now. spud   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

I didn’t put any disclaimer on my post saying that it was from a non-biased source, it is biased, just like everything else that’s been posted on this forum, bar one or two articles. The rest of the posts have been extremely biased. I don’t know or care if Dr Offit makes a lot of money from inventing vaccines, if he saves just one life with his vaccine, its worth all the money in the world. I would like to see some proof of your accusation though, its easy to accuse anyone of anything on these forums, so if you have some credible information about what this man earns from the vaccin ...
[retrieve this message]

---

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703779704576073744290909186.html Junk Science Isn’t a Victimless Crime Vaccines don’t cause autism—and there was never any proof that they do. Too bad kids had to die while we figured that out. By PAUL A. OFFIT In 1998, a British surgeon named Andrew Wakefield published a paper claiming that the measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccine might cause autism. To support his case, Dr. Wakefield reported the stories of eight children who had developed symptoms of autism within one month of receiving MMR. He proposed that measles vaccine ...
[retrieve this message]

---

A sad story Chaz. I was thinking about what would happen in my own country if something like this took place. Being a much smaller country population wise, most people would hear about it, although I doubt it would cause mass demonstrations against the government. Personally I would care that such a tragedy had taken place, and I would definitely want to know what the circumstances were, that led to the tragedy. Perhaps this person did get a bad run from government, or perhaps his own poor choices, and behaviour led him to the point of suicide. There’s not a lot of information in the ar ...
[retrieve this message]

---

This link is to a radio interview transcript, and audio interview, with Dr Paul Offit. You can read the transcript or listen to the recording. http://www.npr.org/2011/01/07/132740175/paul-offit-on-the-anti-vaccine-movement spud   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Stomping Through A Medical Minefield The author of a new book about autism says exactly what he thinks about vaccines and other hot topics. http://www.newsweek.com/2008/10/24/stomping-through-a-medical-minefield.html This is a 3 page article with videos, so I wont post the whole thing here, for those that are interested, it is well worth a look. spud   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

http://www.science20.com/countering_psychology_woo_and_science_asds/dr_paul_offit_polarizing_figure_only_fringe-75797 Dr. Paul Offit: Polarizing Figure Only On The Fringe By Kim Wombles | January 31st 2011 09:50 PM About Kim Instructor of English and psychology and mother to three on the autism spectrum. Dr. Paul Offit is the Hillary Clinton of the autism world. Or is he? It seems really unfair that a well-respected pediatrician and infectious disease expert who has devoted his career to saving lives is the recipient of the vitriol that places like Age of Autism and people lik ...
[retrieve this message]

---

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/13/health/13auti.html Book Is Rallying Resistance to the Antivaccine Crusade By DONALD G. McNEIL Jr. Published: January 12, 2009 A new book defending vaccines, written by a doctor infuriated at the claim that they cause autism, is galvanizing a backlash against the antivaccine movement in the United States. Ryan Collerd for The New York Times Paul A. Offit, pediatrician. But there will be no book tour for the doctor, Paul A. Offit, author of “Autism’s False Prophets.” He has had too many death threats. “I’ll speak at a conference, ...
[retrieve this message]

---

Just to correct a false accusation, I have not said that everything in this thread are lies or misinformation. I have also not said that formaldehyde is not carcinogenic, as the scientific evidence is clear on this, formaldehyde is a carcinogen. What I dispute is the the amount of formaldehyde present in vaccines, is carcinogenic, using the principle of ”the toxin is in the dose”. The theory that vaccines cause Autism has been disproved many times, so scientist that is still pushing this theory, is not a credible scientist. I agree that there should be rigorous testing of all ...
[retrieve this message]

---

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/03/080318124054.htm Pneumococcal Disease Rates Down Significantly Post-Vaccine ScienceDaily (Mar. 20, 2008) — Since the approval of a vaccine against pneumococcal bacteria for young children in 2000, rates of invasive pneumococcal disease (IPD) are down significantly in all age groups, while rates of IPD caused by non-vaccine strains are modestly on the rise. Researchers from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) report their results March 18 at the 2008 International Conference on Emerging Infectious Diseases in Atlanta, ” ...
[retrieve this message]

---

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/06/110609105534.htm Dramatic Fall in Cases of Meningitis A in Three West African Nations After New Vaccine Introduction ScienceDaily (June 9, 2011) — Burkina Faso, Mali, and Niger report the lowest number of confirmed meningitis A cases ever recorded during an epidemic season this year following the successful introduction of a new vaccine that could eliminate the primary cause of the deadly disease from Africa’s meningitis belt, announced the Meningitis Vaccine Project (MVP), which spearheaded development of the vaccine. Also, a new analysis ...
[retrieve this message]

---

http://thinkingautismguide.blogspot.com/2011/01/interview-dr-paul-offit.html MONDAY, JANUARY 31, 2011 Interview: Vaccine Expert Dr. Paul Offit Vaccine expert Dr. Paul Offit is the author of the new book Deadly Choices: How the Anti-Vaccine Movement Threatens Us All. We talked with Dr. Offit about realities of vaccine-preventable diseases, the importance of herd immunity, just how contagious measles really are, why you shouldn’t have chickenpox parties, why neither he nor Jenny McCarthy are autism experts, why it is unethical to run studies featuring vaccinated versus unvaccinated ch ...
[retrieve this message]

---

There seems to be no link in your reply, (or my computer is playing up), could you post your search again? thanks, spud   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

I do not call fox news credible evidence, but as usual, you are free to do so if you choose. As for other ”evidence” on this thread, I do not consider ”whale to” as credible. I’m not interested in the religious beliefs of reincarnation, nor am I paid to post here, so I guess that leaves you with no credible evidence in my view. Misinformation is taking a statistic, (one that you are relying on fox news for, now there’s a trustworthy media outlet), on Autism rates in China, even after the mountains of evidence that disprove and connection between Autism and vaccines, and try and link it ...
[retrieve this message]

---

Hi Mira, Modern medical science has indeed come a long way, and most scientists will acknowledge that we have a long way to go. Unfortunately people always want certainty, when there is none. Its always a matter of weighing up the evidence, and making a choice based on the whether you believe the benefits outweigh the risks. I think the benefits of vaccinations, for some diseases, absolutely outweigh the risks. I make my decisions on individual vaccines, not vaccines as a whole, and the evidence for the efficacy of those particular vaccines, as well as evidence of risk. I then we ...
[retrieve this message]

---

There are some here that are really into the whole conspiracy theory thing, and I think you’re right, there are some people where the issue is more about the perceived conspiracy, than the vaccine ingredients, and the safety of the vaccines. Many of the theories make me laugh, particularly the depopulation of the Earth with vaccines theory. Vaccines have been around for many decades now, and the population of the Earth has grown immensely since the introduction of vaccines. There either isn’t a conspiracy to depopulate, or the conspiritors are very bad at their job. There are also ...
[retrieve this message]

---

It is about beliefs, and its also about evidence, and what is credible and what is not. The case is in the court system because my friend hopes to bring the case to the awareness of many, and this case will highlight many of the problems that exist when people make decisions that can cause the death of another. I guess you will have to isolate your children, as most people see the value in vaccinations. If only the parents of the unvaccinated child, that gave whooping cough to my friends baby, had believed as you do, the baby would still be alive today. I to have changed many of ...
[retrieve this message]

---

As I said, I don’t share your beliefs, and I’m not interested in your ”evidence”, so don’t bother. Spread your blather to someone else. spud   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

http://www.plosbiology.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pbio.1000114 Quite long but definitely worth a read. spud   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Here is an excellent article, although quite long, is definitely worth a read. Ties in with what you and I have both posted. http://www.plosbiology.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pbio.1000114 There are good references at the end of the article as well. spud   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

I’d be very interested in any information you have that states the vaccinations are forced on people in the US. This I think, is very wrong. I believe it should be an individuals choice, and that people should have access to information showing the benefits vs risk, of both vaccination, and non-vaccination. I live in Australia, and it is not compulsory to vaccinate, but the reasons people are choosing not to vaccinate, in many cases, is based on misinformation, and a lack of understanding about the diseases that there are vaccinations for, and the risks of permanent damage and death, th ...
[retrieve this message]

---

Wow, that’s some accusation, got some proof of that, or are you just into personal attacks? BTW, I’m a she, not a he. I don’t post on every forum, and support good alternative medicine, I just don’t support ignorance, misinformation, and quackery. spud   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Just providing some balance, in this very unbalanced forum 13..., its entirely up to the individual whether they want to be needled or not :) spud   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Its amazing that you can make so many wrong assumptions, but I guess that’s the way people without a credible argument behave. I’m not interested in your conspiracy theories, nor am I a believer in reincarnation, so you’re wasting your time there. Maybe if people like yourself could come up with some actual evidence to support your claims, without all the personal attacks, then you might have something worth listening too. spud   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Actually they do have proof that it was the unvaccinated child that communicated this disease to the baby, this is why this case is now in the court system. spud   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Its also a good idea not to stereotype those who think vaccines are a good thing in reducing the death and harm done by communicable diseases. Unfortunately this is exactly what is happening all over the internet. It works both ways. spud   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/library/bytopic/thimerosal_faq_refs.html spud   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/00_pdf/VSD_Chart_of_Autism_Studies-Updated_Sep_27_2010.pdf http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/Concerns/Thimerosal/QA_Pediatrics-thimerosal-autism.html There are links to many other studies done on this subject on the pages linked in this post. spud   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

That is a good thing too. I hope the mother, I know personally, never gives up her fight against those that refuse to have their children vaccinated against whooping cough, who caused the death of her 6 week old baby. I certainly wont forget her or her baby, and will fight against the fear mongering and disinformation that abounds on the internet. spud   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

I found the same thing Mira, you can read the abstract, but not the full study, without paying. Hopefully one of the scientific journals will make it freely available, so we don’t have to rely on the interpretation of the data, by people who write for news websites. I will defer any judgement on this study until I can find out more information. I rather see the data and the peer reviews, than take information from an article on a news website. Thanks for trying :) spud   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/Concerns/Autism/Index.html http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0003140 spud   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/107/5/e84.full http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/Concerns/Thimerosal/neuropsychological_Outcomes.html spud   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

You have completely misunderstood my post, then gone on to make assumptions about what I have said, and assumptions about what I think. I was not talking about people who work for pharmaceutical companies, I was talking about people, such as immunologists, research scientists, etc, that, (in my country), are independent of the corporations that make and sell vaccines. Scientists that know the data concerning the risks of an adverse reaction to vaccines, do not tell people that vaccines destroy their health, because it is simply not true, and they would be lying. Scientists know t ...
[retrieve this message]

---

I’ve posted a great deal of information on this forum, that shows that Thimerosal, in the tiny amounts found in vaccines, does not cause brain damage, or Autism. This additive has been removed from most routine vaccinations, for some years now, (this is easy information to find for those that want citations), and there has been no subsequent drop in the cases of Autism. So it is common sense and very simple to see there is no correlation or link, with Autism and vaccines. Here is an entire page of information, http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091008131852.htm The ...
[retrieve this message]

---

Mira, do you have a link to the actual study, so that I can check the references and see if this is peer reviewed. I would also like to see the actual data, rather than a news websites interpretation of the data. I’ll see if I can find a link myself, but would appreciate it if you already have one. spud   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Totally agree, and this information is extremely important. The problem with this, is that when the people do not have access to this sort of information, it opens the doors for the misinformation we see on many internet sites today. Simplistic, or exaggerated claims, made by fear mongers, and those with an agenda, take over , when factual data, with understandable explanations, are not available. Scientists are probably not the best people to try and explain data to the general public, in ways that people can easily understand. I think a big effort in this area is needed though. If peo ...
[retrieve this message]

---

I don’t feel any animosity towards anyone on this forum, or this website, but that’s just me I guess. This is an issue that generates a lot of emotion and disagreements are going to happen on a debate forum, fortunately most people on this forum are able to argue a point or view without resorting to nastiness or animosity. I have a lot of admiration for anyone who can express their view with civility and respect for others, even when I may not agree with that view. Glad you enjoyed your shows, lol, I haven’t heard of either show, in my little corner of the world, we tend to be at l ...
[retrieve this message]

---

I’m wishing you all good days, and no more bad ones. Your lucky to have you as your healer, with your knowledge, and tenaciousness, I have no doubt you will recover very quickly, All the best healing, and good energy and hugs from me :) spud   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

You’ve made a an assumption about nurses and health care workers, when I’m sure that you do not know what sort of diet or health status nurses or health care workers have. The issues you raise about mandatory vaccination are valid though IMO. I personally don’t agree with mandatory or forced vaccinations, I think it should be an individual choice, but unfortunately, that is not how the corporate world works. I guess in your country, people who had an aversion to being vaccinated, would need to work in different areas, if they didn’t want to comply with the wishes of the corporation they ...
[retrieve this message]

---

agree, that’s why vaccines are given to healthy people, before they become sick from the infections that they are being vaccinated against. There is no point vaccinating a person that already has the disease. spud   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

http://www.bnet.com/blog/drug-business/autism-doctor-loses-his-medical-license-now-let-8217s-talk-about-how-false-vaccine-beliefs-hurt-kids/4840?tag=content;drawer-container Autism Doctor Loses His Medical License; Now Let’s Talk About How False Vaccine Beliefs Hurt Kids By Jim Edwards | May 24, 2010 It’s good that Andrew Wakefield, the author of a discredited “study” in The Lancet of just 12 children that alleged a connection between vaccines and autism, has been banned from practicing medicine in the U.K. Now we can all stop calling him a “doctor” and start a debate about wh ...
[retrieve this message]

---

http://www.webmd.com/brain/autism/news/20080918/chelation-study-autism-called-off?page=2 Chelation Study for Autism Called Off Controversial Trial Too Risky, Panel Says By Salynn Boyles WebMD Health News Reviewed by Louise Chang, MD Sept. 18, 2008 -- Federal officials have abandoned a proposed study of a controversial alternative therapy for autism, leaving parents who believe in the treatment disappointed and angry about the move. In a statement released Wednesday, the National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH) says its investigators would not go forward with a trial of chelat ...
[retrieve this message]

---

Father Sues Doctors Over ’Fraudulent’ Autism Therapy http://abcnews.go.com/Health/TheLaw/doctors-sued-autism-chelation-therapy/story?id=10045951 By JOSEPH BROWNSTEIN ABC News Medical Unit March 9, 2010 In perhaps the first lawsuit of its kind, a parent of a boy with autism is suing his son’s doctors, claiming they provided treatments without proven scientific benefit. The suit says the treatments were expensive and carried risks of serious harm. James Coman filed the suit in Cook County Circuit Court against Dr. Anjum Usman and Dr. Daniel Rossignol over the treatment of his 7 ...
[retrieve this message]

---

My intention was a friendly warning to Mira, as I was under the impression, from the stated TOS from the WM, that posting a link in every message is not allowed. In no way was it an attempt to silence Mira, one of the posters I have a great deal of respect for. Although we may differ on our views, I consider her a friend, and would not allow a disagreement to influence my respect for her, and what she posts. This is from the posting guidelines of Curezone: ” I would hate to see Mira’s posts deleted, or Mira blocked from posting, simply because of her enthusiasm for this particula ...
[retrieve this message]

---

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/chemical-castration-of-autistic-children-leads-to-the-downfall-of-dr-mark-geier/#more-12531 Chemical castration of autistic children leads to the downfall of Dr. Mark Geier Published by David Gorski under Neuroscience/Mental Health,Vaccines Comments: 15 One of the most persistent myths is one that’s been particularly and doggedly resistant to evidence, science, clinical trials, epidemiology, and reason. It’s also a myth that I’ve been writing about a long time. Specifically, I’m referring to the now scientifically discredited myth that ...
[retrieve this message]

---

I’m glad that posting the same website link, in a great deal of posts, is not considered spamming, by the webmaster, (I take it you are the voice of the webmaster, as you seem to speak for him). I wont be so worried about linking to the same websites multiple times in future. Good to have that cleared up. I appreciate Mira’s posts and her politeness and civility, and would hate to see her posts removed because they constituted spam. I already know your opinion of the websites I link too: http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/category/vaccines/ http://skeptoid.com/episod ...
[retrieve this message]

---

Good researching Mira, although the first website is a sales site, and rense has been discredited many times, the other sites seem to have credible info. This shows that there is a high chance that this vaccine, in America and Canada, contains aspartame. However to put this in perspective, diet drinks and foods contain aspartame as an artificial sweetener, and has been deemed safe for human consumption, unless the person has an allergy to this chemical compound. The average American and Canadian would ingest many times the amount in the vaccine, in a day or two. There is a lot of ...
[retrieve this message]

---

The warnings are pretty extensive, and I would advise people to investigate and speak to people, such as doctors, or pharmacists, as well as doing their own research, before taking any medication at all. If they are in doubt, don’t take it. I would advise the same caution when using any alternative or herbal medicine. This is just common sense. If people don’t understand what ingredients are, then they need to educate themselves. Pharmaceutical companies do lie about the benefits and dangers their products have, ( vioxx, v!agra etc etc, a very long list), and so do alternative ...
[retrieve this message]

---

I have spoken to a friend of mine in town, a doctor, and he has told me that there is no aspartame in the oral typhoid vaccine in Australia. As this ingredient has a high chance of causing an anaphylactic reaction in people, it is not allowed to be added to the vaccine in this country. He was quoting from his pharmaceutical index. In Australia, they must list every ingredient, including ingredients that may only be present in trace amounts. I agree, I think people should be fully informed about what exactly is in vaccines. Unfortunately there are those that distort the danger ...
[retrieve this message]

---

Mira I appreciate your opinion, and can see how this website would appear to be informative. They do have a lot of newspaper articles. Unfortunately they do not present both sides of the issue equally, and there is a lot of misinformation on this site, although well disguised. I also realise that this article was not presented by the website you linked too, as an article in favour of vaccine safety. I guess we will have to agree to disagree on the value of the website. There is a great deal of good information on this site at well, thoroughly researched, and presented well. h ...
[retrieve this message]

---

Mira, you are correct, we each will have our own view, but I don’t believe we have to state that view, in detail, over and over again. We can argue nothing here, but our own opinion, because any website that is linked too, is not going to be accepted by the other side of this debate as credible. There are some very obviously biased websites, and some that pretend to be non-biased, but are anyway. That’s why I prefer to get most of my information outside of the internet, form sources that are easily verified as being truthful. The internet is a very limited means of communication, par ...
[retrieve this message]

---

Mira, be careful how many times you post a link to this site, it is considered spamming to post a link to a website in every post. spud   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

The past 6 months have been ups and downs. The short of it: I have had severe insomnia seasonally since getting my first dental fillings and the type 1 diabetes that followed. The fillings are den ... [Video Embedded Here]   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

You’ve pointed out nothing of the sort, you merely try and distract from your lack of argument by attacking me personally. You constantly bang on about liquid truth, which comes from the christianity debate forum, and is in regards to religious beliefs. I do not believe in absolute truth, in regards to religious belief, I think everyone has their own truth when it comes to religious belief. Each person’s truth in regards to religious or spiritual beliefs, is equally as valid as anyone else’s. Hope that clears up any confusion that people reading Bf’s constant reference to liquid tr ...
[retrieve this message]

---

Bf is referring to the article on the myth of toxins in vaccines, that I posted on this forum. Here is the link again, in case you missed it. http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/toxic-myths-about-vaccines/#more-9 spud   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Fortunately, whether you think its a bad choice or not, you don’t get to make that choice for anyone but yourself. Its wonderful to live in a country where these decisions are left to the individual. spud   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

I think this is fantastic, it shows that the agencies that are required to look into any adverse effects of vaccines are doing their job, and doing it well. Thank you for posting this Mira. spud   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Why does it bother you so much that I don’t agree with your views? Your posts are increasingly rude and are a personal attack on me, rather than on any information. I change my stance or view when I discover information that disproves a view or stance I may have held before. I keep an open mind, and use critical thinking to determine whether information is correct or false. I also use critical thinking to determine whether information is being twisted and spun to suit an agenda. As for vaccination, I have never held the view that people should not be vaccinated, if that is what they ...
[retrieve this message]

---

Where is the contradiction Bf, in either my messages or stance? Anyway, its not about me, or you for that matter, its about information. People can make up their own minds what they want to believe. BTW, my posting history is available to anyone who wants to read it, lol, its pretty long though. spud   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

No-one in your country is forced to be vaccinated, but thankfully the majority of people see the value in vaccination, and are not swayed by the fear mongering and lies of the anti-vaccination movement. spud   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

You would believe that, it fits your view, I do not. This website is a barely veiled attempt to portray an anti-vaccination site as credible. It has obviously fooled you. IMO the website is full of misinformation, I’m sure others can make up their own minds. spud   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

I’ll leave it up to the people who read the article to form their own opinion. I found the article to be useful and informative, but did not expect it to impress anyone who already has their views set in concrete, who will never accept anything as valid, that doesn’t suit their own cognitive bias. spud   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Excellent book, one I’ve also read and would recommend. spud   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

You are correct, and that is exactly why I don’t drink diet drinks or eat diet food, with artificial sweeteners. ”The dose makes the poison” and the minuscule amount in an oral vaccine, (that is not forced on anyone), compared to the amount of this particular poison in food and drinks, among other uses, is insignificant. Again, it is up to the individual to decide whether they wish to have the vaccine, or not. People are very capable of making up their own minds, given all the information. Personally, I would rather have the oral vaccine, even if it contained aspartame, then incre ...
[retrieve this message]

---

lol, lots of emotive words and melodramatic phrases, but no substance or evidence. spud   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

This is the leaflet that comes with the vaccine, and aspartame is not listed in the ingredients. Nor is any warning given to those that may be allergic to aspartame. http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv2/bhcmed.nsf/pages/cscvivot/$File/cscvivot.pdf We have very strict laws on labelling, and consumer information in Australia, and if this vaccine contained aspartame, and an allergic person had and adverse reaction to this oral vaccine, and was not warned of its presence, this would leave the drug company open to legal action, and investigation by the dept of consumer affairs, and th ...
[retrieve this message]

---

I have had a look at several websites, and aspartame is not listed on the ingredients of this particular vaccine, so it is interesting that this particular website warns people who are allergic to aspartame to not have the oral vaccine. I’ll check this out with my friend, an immunologist, and see if she can shed any light on this, she has access to a lot more information than I do. I’ll post any info I find. Even if this oral vaccine contains a minute amount of aspartame, IMO it is unlikely to pose any real danger, (unless of course the person is allergic), as the amount of aspartame a ...
[retrieve this message]

---

Agreed. I would also encourage people to research off the internet as well, check out the local library, go to the local university, talk to people who are knowledgeable, and are actually working in the area of interest. Think critically, and verify information, and credibility, where ever possible. spud   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---