Seeing with Spiritual Eyes 
evanluck
16 y
1,594
There has been quite a lot of discussion lately about politics and I wanted to offer a couple thoughts.
All of us on this earth who possess a spirit made in the image of YHWH, the most high Creator, are a family.
We are all being asked to enter into a Kingdom and this Kingdom is not of this world. It is not a physical kingdom but a spiritual kingdom.
All of us carry along with us on our journey "baggage" of our flesh. These are various idols or egos like pride of beliefs in certain worldly philosophies be they Republican, Democrat, Conservative, Liberal, Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, New Age. We cannot carry this baggage into the Kingdom. We must be willing to forsake it all and stand naked before our Creator and accept the rule of his Living Word. This is not the Bible as many Christians would assert. The Living Word is the Spirit of Truth that is sent from the YHWH and was made flesh in the person of Yahshua Ha Mashiach(know also as Jesus the Christ).
To enter into the Kingdom we must be willing to be ruled by the Living Word. Most of us will experience this being obedient to our conscience, our gut, our intuition, or our higher self. This is how, as it is written Yahshua will return to rule as the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords.
We also have an enemy. Our enemy desires that we experience the pain of missing the Kingdom by holding onto our baggage. A classic tactic of our enemy is to take some of YHWH's truth, package it with some lies and give it a label. This way he either forces us to accept some lies with truth or to reject some truth because of lies. When you examine all the doctrines of this world they all suffer from this fatal flaw. This is why we must examine all information in submission to the Living Word and accept what is truth and reject what is a lie. This results in rejecting association with all worldly philosophical or religious labels.
Another tactic of our enemy is to raise up a leader be it spiritual, political or social spouting some of YHWH's truth and offering it in exchange for your obedience.
We must resist the temptation to divide with other members of YHWH's family because we hold onto worldly baggage. We must also resist temptation to join with our enemy because they hold precious the same baggage as we do. We must resist the temptation to be obedient to anyone but YHWH.
The Kingdom will not be ushered in by any political party. Holding fast to things like patriotism or dogmatic religious doctrines will only delay entrance into the Kingdom.
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- Re: Seeing with Spiritual Eyes refreshed
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This is a reply to # 1,281,726"The Kingdom will not be ushered in by any political party." This part I agree with.
- Re: Seeing with Spiritual Eyes vektek
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This is a reply to # 1,281,726Advertisement
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Good post Evanluck! I would like to add that I think it is easy for people to feel worried about what all is happening in this country as well as the rest of the world right now. But one of the truths that we learn in the bible is that God is in control no matter what and he is ultimately the one who appoints the leaders. Pharoah was an evil leader. But the Lord still used Pharoah to show His glory.
Romans 9:17 For the scriipture said to Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
In my humanness, I am hoping McCain wins this election, but I believe he is the lesser of the two evils in this race. And I will go put in my vote for McCain, even though that won't feel so great either. But even if Obama wins, as scary as that is, how can we have peace? How can we have peace period, regardless of who wins?
We can have peace by putting our trust in the Lord, in his sovereignty, in his overall plan, and know that is his infinite wisdom, he will ultimately be the one who decides the next president, and it will be for His glory.
Romans 13:! Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.
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- Re: Seeing with Spiritual Eyes refreshed
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This is a reply to # 1,281,818Even without a user name, I would know you anywhere. Glad you are here. :)
- Re: Seeing with Spiritual Eyes vektek
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MoreThis is a reply to # 1,281,835Thanks Refreshed! I'm not sure why it left my name blank like that, but I'm glad I can still be known without it. :)
- Re: Seeing with Spiritual Eyes refreshed
16 y
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This is a reply to # 1,281,849There are just some people who enter a room and make you instantly smile. I can disagree with you on something and come away still feeling good. Now that's a true gift. :)
- Re: Seeing with Spiritual Eyes vektek
16 y
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This is a reply to # 1,281,855Refreshed, you make me smile too. And I agree it is great when you can disagree with someone on some things, but still enjoy that person's friendship.
And as Christians, it goes even deeper than that. We are brothers and sisters in Christ, and even though we disagree on some things, we have that bond!
I often sit in church and look around, and and then think here are all these people with very different lives, personalities, careers, cultures, etc. But we all come together to worship the Lord, and even with all our diversities, we love one another. That is awesome, and it could only be that way because of our Lord Jesus Christ.
John 13:35
By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”- Agree, Agree, Amen refreshed 16 y 1,342
- Re: Seeing with Spiritual Eyes vektek
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- Re: Seeing with Spiritual Eyes refreshed
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- Re: Seeing with Spiritual Eyes vektek
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- --Correction--Mankind is allowed to ... moreless
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This is a reply to # 1,281,818Advertisement
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Hi,
A quote from your comment: We can have peace by putting our trust in the Lord, in his sovereignty, in his overall plan, and know that is his infinite wisdom, -----------he will ultimately be the one who decides the next president-------, and it will be for His glory.
Answer: The part I marked apart from the rest, I believe needs some Clarification !
I believe that if one searches the Good Book one may find that instead of saying that God is the one who puts into Power be it the next President etc, it may be better to understand that God allows mankind to make choices and select ones Leaders to some extent and then God uses them to make his point to the people !
For if we made the statement that it is God Selecting the Leaders then the people could Blame --ALL-- their problems on God and this is not so !
God allows Mankind to make choices, but uses mankinds Poor choices to teach mankind a lesson when needed !
When mankind makes Good choices, then God allows for Blessings to come upon mankind !
The Good and Bad or Blessings vs Cursings are set to automatically occur upon mankinds choices in Life ! This may come about and or be established before hand by the Acid/Alkaline pH Balancing Principles that God may use to Control everything in the Entire Universe !
Cause and Effect !
Smile Tis your choice.
- Re: --Correction--Mankind is allowed... vektek
16 y
1,404
This is a reply to # 1,281,928Yes I agree with you Moreless that people make their choices, and with the example of the next president, the people as a whole will make the choice. But God will still be sovereign in it all, and therefore it will all happen according to his plan. Just like when people made the choice to crucify Christ. They made their choice, but it all happened according to how the Lord planned. Nothing is more powerful than God, no one is sovereign but God, and so nothing gets in the way of his plan.
But whether we agree on all that or not, I think what we do agree on is that God can use evil for his good.
Christians for generations have tried to make sense of how man is held responsible for his actions while God is sovereign at the same time. They both are true, but can we understand it? I think trying to understand this is like trying to understand how God has always been. Some things only God understands at this time.
For me is gives me comfort and peace to know that while man continues to make wrong choices, God is not surprised, and somehow everything is unfolding exactly as he planned it to. Nothing was more dreadful than our Lord to be crucified out of pure evilness, but this was what the Lord planned from the beginning of the world as the means for our salvation. He is working all the rest of the evil that continues to go on is this world according to his plan as well. The Lord will be glorified no matter what happens.- --answer--Correction--Mankind is all... moreless
16 y
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Hi vektek,
Your comment: Yes I agree with you Moreless that people make their choices, and with the example of the next president, the people as a whole will make the choice. But God will still be sovereign in it all, and therefore it will all happen according to his plan. Just like when people made the choice to crucify Christ. They made their choice, but it all happened according to how the Lord planned. Nothing is more powerful than God, no one is sovereign but God, and so nothing gets in the way of his plan.
But whether we agree on all that or not, I think what we do agree on is that God can use evil for his good.
Christians for generations have tried to make sense of how man is held responsible for his actions while God is sovereign at the same time. They both are true, but can we understand it? I think trying to understand this is like trying to understand how God has always been. Some things only God understands at this time.
For me is gives me comfort and peace to know that while man continues to make wrong choices, God is not surprised, and somehow everything is unfolding exactly as he planned it to. Nothing was more dreadful than our Lord to be crucified out of pure evilness, but this was what the Lord planned from the beginning of the world as the means for our salvation. He is working all the rest of the evil that continues to go on is this world according to his plan as well. The Lord will be glorified no matter what happens.
Answer: I will agree with your overall assement as explained this time !
Smile Tis your choice. - Re: --Correction--Mankind is allowed... refreshed
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This is a reply to # 1,282,044I think you explained that very well. I think many times it's the wording and phrases we use to explain our beliefs that get in the way of others understanding what we are trying to convey.
Evanluck for example, is a wonderful person and I'm sure I agree with most of what he says but his wording causes me to be nervous to agree with him fully. Of course ML had that same effect on me when I first came to this forum. After you spend more time with them and hear them rephrase their beliefs you then realize that you are more in agreement than not.
- Re: --Correction--Mankind is allowed... vektek
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This is a reply to # 1,282,271Well I'm glad I was able to communicate clearly this time. I have been known to not speak very clearly way to often, and that is frustrating to me. I'll keep working on it. :)
- Re: --Correction--Mankind is allowed... evanluck
16 y
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This is a reply to # 1,282,271Yes this is totally true. Your point about language is very well taken.
For example, I have an amount of exposure to traditional Christian teaching that has always taught me to fear other religions. It took me a while to get over it but when I did and actually spent some time studying them, I realized that many of them were describing the same things using different language...
Allah is described by muslims as "transcendent and unknowable"...this is kind of like jews or christians saying that YHWH or the Father is "holy." I always thought that Hinduism was polytheistic but in fact the Hindus believe in one God, they just take various attributes of God, assign it an avatar and worship that aspect. Much like some Christians worship Jesus as the Living Word of God. Before there was Buddhism or Confucianism, the Chinese worshiped a single Almighty Creator that they referred to as Shang Di. Shang Di is described as the Almighty Sovereign Creator who formed a blood covenant with his people, was unseen, and was not to be represented by images or idols. This descriiption is identical to the way jews and christians describe YHWH or the Father.
New Age age spirituality understands the role of energy and how our thoughts actually affect the spirit realm. This is very consistent with moreless' teaching on energy and spirit.
What I have found is that most major religious traditions have been used by the Father to point people in his direction but all of them are inadequate and become stumbling blocks to actually entering into intimate relationship with the Father. Mostly because, over time, these religious traditions that may have started in truth become corrupted by man and are used by men as mechanisms of control using guilt, fear, or shame.
A few years ago, I spent a day doing street ministry with an end-times Christian group. We spent time handing out tracts that talked about the end of the world and the second coming of Jesus. I remember reading that tract and internally knowing that the actual events of the prophecy were INACCURATE but what was ACCURATE was a scene where a bunch of God's people were called to a meeting. When they started sharing their backgrounds, it was obvious that they had come from all different type of religious backgrounds. There were christians, jehovah's witnesses, mormons, buddhists, atheists, muslims...they started talking about what needed to be done to fulfill God's plan but the conversion devolved into bickering over religious doctrines. Then one of the two witnesses silenced them all with the "voice of God" and rebuked them for their fleshly attachments to their religious traditions. As I was reading that part of the tract, my spirit was testifying to it's accuracy. I just knew that the portrayal was an accurate descriiption of what would happen when God finally called his people for the last season.
Perhaps the curse of the Tower of Babel is much more far reaching than just different languages like English, Chinese or Russian. Maybe it extends to the language of science, religion, politics.
What tends to happen to me is that I hear someone's language and I make an assumption of their beliefs based upon the language that they are using. This assumption then clouds my ability to hear what they are saying because my mind is projecting beliefs onto them that they may or may not hold based upon their choice of language. This is why I pointed out the tactic of our enemy of grouping truth with lies together under labels like "liberal" or "Black Liberation Theology" or "Mormonism" or "New Age." It is our assumptions that make this tactic so effective.
This happens on curezone all the time. It also happens when I am sharing the protocol with people. I begin sharing with them the parts that they have heard before and they assume that I have nothing new to share with them. They have "tried that stuff before" and "it didn't work for them." Unfortunately, they don't listen long enough to hear the information that is different, and that could truly help them.
This is why pursuing relationship with the Father is so important. His "Spirit of Truth," illuminates, translates, discerns everything that we are hearing and allows us to hold onto the truth and reject the lies. The stakes are very high and there is great suffering in delaying this pursuit. I am of the belief that all who are chosen will enter into the Kingdom but it is much better to go willingly than to be dragged kicking and screaming.Advertisement
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- Re: --Correction--Mankind is allowed... refreshed
16 y
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This is a reply to # 1,282,583I have always been of the belief that the devil uses half truths, which means, if I extract the truth part from the lie, and leave the lie part out, the truth part is still usable.
The Bible says there will be no peace until Jesus returns.
Meditating, positive thinking or singing kumbyya with all religions is not going to bring Jesus back any quicker or delay Him or get me into or keep me out of the Kingdom. I have no problems being friends with other religions but my worship is personal and between me and God. As far as worshiping together, we talk about frequencies here alot. My frequency resonates with some frequencies and we create beautiful music together and with others I may sound off key. When we get alot of different beliefs together, you very well may have noise. lol, but thank goodness, to God, I feel sure the different frecquencies blend beautifully to His ear.
Trial and error is how many people learn to live by the Fruit of the Spirit and because people write down these things as they learn, they also teach others what to do,so out of that forms religions/beliefs.
The Bible is not only a written combination of up-front answers on how to bypass all those trials and errors but a history of people who knew God in human form. Words that were meant to be written, to endure and not be destroyed all theses years. Words inspired by the Holy Spirit.
I will not go kicking and screaming because I know I will endure to the end. That is the path, I have chosen. How do I know that I will endure? Because I have blessed assurance that Jesus is mine. He will not leave me or forsake me. I choose to endure and the devil can not break what is in my mind and my heart because I daily choose to belong to my savior, Jesus Christ and He will guard me and mark me for salvation when the time comes, unless I make a choice to denounce Him and choose satan instead.- Re: --Correction--Mankind is allowed... evanluck
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This is a reply to # 1,282,630There is a great amount of wisdom and truth in your post and I am happy to receive it, even if my flesh has yet to totally comprehend it.
I agree with you descriiption of Satan using half truths to deceive and through power of discernment given by the Spirit of Truth, we can extract lessons from things that are meant to do us harm.
I also agree that "singing kumbaya with all religions is not going to bring Jesus back any quicker." In fact the rallying cry of our enemy is unity and peace. Satan wants to bind the wheat with the tares. But Jesus told us that he "...did not come to bring peace but a sword..." Paul describes the Word of God as a sword and in this season, the Word will divide. It will separate the wheat from the tares.
My point in bringing up other religions is to note how deceptive our flesh can be in identifying who is our brother and who is not. I cannot tell you how many nightmare stories I've heard about "Christians" hurting God's people. I've even experienced a couple of these personally and I thank the Father for the lesson it taught me.
I also have experienced the challenges that you bring up with worshiping with other "believers." Your frequency analogy is interesting and I hope to come to a deeper understanding of that.
What I have found is that the Father is first and foremost interested in personal relationship. When humans gather together outside of each one being in a transforming relationship with the Father, bad things happen as the "dynamics of the flesh" begin to take over. People instead of interacting with each other in meaningful ways begin to form social pecking orders. This is the situation that I find in many churches which tells me that by in large people are not experiencing a transforming personal relationship with the Father.
So what do you think salvation is?Advertisement
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- Re: --Correction--Mankind is allowed... refreshed
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This is a reply to # 1,282,691"So what do you think salvation is?"
See what I mean? Different communication...different frequencies...
Answer: I already told you what I think salvation is. :) - Re: --Correction--Mankind is allowed... refreshed
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This is a reply to # 1,282,691I apologize for stopping my conversation so abruptly with you on the subject of salvation.
Revelation 3:4-6
4Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy. 5He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels. 6He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
The book of life was created to record each individual that was ever created. One day we will stand before the throne the book(s) will be opened and all will be judged, great and small. If my name is still there in the book and not blotted out, I have my salvation. Some people may debate when (at what time) does a blotting out occur.
But don't misunderstand, I don't worry that my name will be blotted out because I have made a choice to serve God and allow the blood of Jesus to make me whole. Wholeness can not be achieved on my own, I need Jesus to stand in the gap for me and cover my ugliness and sins. So when I stand to be judged, there will be no offenses charged. Because my heart desires to do His will, I strive to do my best and follow His advise to have the most successful life here on earth.
Of course while I'm waiting for this glorious day, I'm here on earth trying to serve God by worshiping Him and serving the people He created. We can be happy doing our work here by following the Fruit of the Spirit and reap the rewards of a wholesome life or take the other route of following the Fruit of this World which is the works of the flesh. It's all about choice. :)
- Re: --Correction--Mankind is allowed... evanluck
16 y
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This is a reply to # 1,283,065Sorry if my question came across as attempt at a "Gotcha."
Rereading my post, I kind of got that impression but it's not my intention.
I'm just jamming with you a little bit to see how our frequencies sound. ;)
From your posts, I get the impression that your relationship with God is developed quite intimately and so I know that you are blessed.
I have not had any disagreement with the things that you have posted.
You mentioned worshiping God in your last post. When I started pursuing relationship with the Father (made possible by the atoning sacrifice of Jesus), I had such a limited view of worship. I would go to church on Sundays and raise up my hands, sings songs and thought that was what worship was. After all they called it "Praise and Worship."
Overtime I got the feeling that I had too limited a view of worship and started praying to God about worship. On a few occasions I had these amazing experiences where I actually felt like God was singing songs to me. A song would come on the radio, and I would get this overwhelming feeling of the presence of God and regardless of how many other times I had heard that same song, this time it was God that was singing it to me. One of those occasions was about worship and was an answer to my prayers.
An excerpt of the lyric:
Saying I love you
Is not the words I want to hear from you
It's not that I want you
Not to say, but if you only knew
How easy it would be to show me how you feel
More than words is all you have to do to make it real
Then you wouldn't have to say that you love me
Cause I'd already know
Through further contemplation I discovered that the way that I show my love to the Father is through obedience. By making choices consistent with what he is teaching me through his Living Word. He created us as objects of his love. So I had to learn how to receive His love and to demonstrate my love to him through obedience. This completely changed my take on worship and was transformational in my life.
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- Re: --Correction--Mankind is allowed... refreshed
16 y
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This is a reply to # 1,283,270Ok, we are starting to really jam, only that my story is reversed. I go to a very conservative church where service to others is very high and so is the commitment and love we have for each other. It's the praise and worship that I choose to add on my own. It is not uncommon for me to break out into song/prayer in the stranges places. The other night looking out a telescope into the dark night to see the lights that God placed there for His enjoyment and mine, and being filled with a special warmness that only being alone with your God and thinking on his promises can bring you.
Worship means different things to different people. I have a woman at my church whos way of showing God how much she loves Him and at the same time blesses others and has alone time with Him, is when she cleans our church. People have made the mistake of offering to pay a professional to do this huge job for her but she says that taking her form of worship away would pull the "joy" rug right out from under her.
Individual worship with our Creator can be as different as the prints on our fingertips. Church in not 4 walls and rows of pews, it's getting out and making a difference in your world and worshiping anytime and place the Spirit moves you. Yes, I go to church, in a building but the people are the church and they lift each other up and pray, bringing special joy to each others lives. Our worship together is like energy that builds and everyone feels the power of the Holy Spirit as God joins us in something that is joyful and sacred.
Today much of the lack luster of some churches is because the people have lost their focus. Pastors are afraid of their congregations because trouble makers have been allowed to remain and people who are not there for the right reasons. Having a denomination that sticks to it's beliefs and does not allow false beliefs to enter and do damage to the harmony allows for peace and all those good vibrations to florish. All it takes is one person with enough negative vibs to start the downfall and slowly, like a cancer, it grows and spreads and soon a whole church can be affected. The church loses it's energy...it's power...it's miracles.- Re: --Correction--Mankind is allowed... evanluck
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This is a reply to # 1,283,322I couldn't agree more. Views of worship can be expanded to included anything done with reverence for the Most High God.
I also agree with your comments about Churches losing focus. Many time church leaders associate a thriving church with bigger buildings. They build this building and in the process create an animal that must be fed...so instead of building a community of believers connected personally to God and to each other, they start "building a tithing base."
They start looking for ways to put more butts in the seats and invariably this involves making compromises on God's message to his people.
So many times I walk into a "thriving" church and contemplate that generations of families have given 10% of their income to build this huge complex that is totally repellent to the types of people that Jesus spent most of his time with during his earthly ministry.
The whole model is flawed and I am eagerly awaiting God's unfolding plan to reclaim his church in the spirit of the one where you are planted.Advertisement
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- Re: --Correction--Mankind is allowed... evanluck
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This is a reply to # 1,281,726Hi Evan,
Your post: There has been quite a lot of discussion lately about politics and I wanted to offer a couple thoughts.
All of us on this earth who possess a spirit made in the image of YHWH, the most high Creator, are a family.
We are all being asked to enter into a Kingdom and this Kingdom is not of this world. It is not a physical kingdom but a spiritual kingdom.
All of us carry along with us on our journey "baggage" of our flesh. These are various idols or egos like pride of beliefs in certain worldly philosophies be they Republican, Democrat, Conservative, Liberal, Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, New Age. We cannot carry this baggage into the Kingdom. We must be willing to forsake it all and stand naked before our Creator and accept the rule of his Living Word. This is not the Bible as many Christians would assert. The Living Word is the Spirit of Truth that is sent from the YHWH and was made flesh in the person of Yahshua Ha Mashiach(know also as Jesus the Christ).
To enter into the Kingdom we must be willing to be ruled by the Living Word. Most of us will experience this being obedient to our conscience, our gut, our intuition, or our higher self. This is how, as it is written Yahshua will return to rule as the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords.
We also have an enemy. Our enemy desires that we experience the pain of missing the Kingdom by holding onto our baggage. A classic tactic of our enemy is to take some of YHWH's truth, package it with some lies and give it a label. This way he either forces us to accept some lies with truth or to reject some truth because of lies. When you examine all the doctrines of this world they all suffer from this fatal flaw. This is why we must examine all information in submission to the Living Word and accept what is truth and reject what is a lie. This results in rejecting association with all worldly philosophical or religious labels.
Another tactic of our enemy is to raise up a leader be it spiritual, political or social spouting some of YHWH's truth and offering it in exchange for your obedience.
We must resist the temptation to divide with other members of YHWH's family because we hold onto worldly baggage. We must also resist temptation to join with our enemy because they hold precious the same baggage as we do. We must resist the temptation to be obedient to anyone but YHWH.
The Kingdom will not be ushered in by any political party. Holding fast to things like patriotism or dogmatic religious doctrines will only delay entrance into the Kingdom.
Answer: What I have found is that many folks learn a little bit about their Creator and then begin to believe they have all the answers as they learn more !
The problems that always come about is when this person reads something in the Good Book and it does not agree with and or Follow or Support their present held ideas that they have come to believe up to this point, so they decide this part doesn't have any merit and they sweep it under the rug !
Then their learning becomes only what they want to believe !
Case in question is the idea of once Saved always Saved, which is a False idea, which the Good book Clearly states that "Only" those whom Endure until the End shall be Saved and the End is not yet here !
The problem is that this brings in False ideas and one becomes unable to Solve problems that begin to come up, because when we lack the Full truth, we shall not be Successful in learning to Solve the problems that come to face us !
A Wise man told me years ago to remember that --ANYTIME-- I could --NOT-- Solve a problem with my present held belief's, that it was because I had become Deceived with some False info and that I needed to 1st find out what the False info was and learn the Truth in order to be able to Solve the problem !
This has served me well over the years and as long as I am willing to admit to myself that I have become Deceived when I am unable to Solve the problems Facing me, then I am able to learn the Truth and Solve the problem when I have learned the Truth and how to apply it properly !
The same applies in the Spiritual Realm, just as you made mention when we have allowed ourself to become Deceived with some False ideas and we have too much Pride and Vanity to be willing to admit to ourself that we are Wrong !
The Good Book has many sayings that are Hard for many folks to agree upon, yet this does not make these sayings Null and Void ! Generally "WE" just Lack the proper understanding at this time to know what and how these sayings apply !
Cause and Effect !
Smile Tis your choice.
- Re: Seeing with Spiritual Eyes refreshed
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