Vitamin A = Lethargy, Joint Pain, an... 
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If you've seen my previous threads, you'll have a good idea of my health history.
Last year I took a drug called accutane which is a vitamin A metabolite. I then began having numerous negative effects from it, and developed strange health conditions. I've recently been diagnosed to have osteoporosis at the age of 17. whenever I take a supplement containing Vitamin A, my symptoms get much worse (joint/back pain, lethargy, very dry skin, etc). Also, even if I eat food with pro-vitamin a (beta-carotene, etc) I have a severe onset of lethargy.
Is it possible that there is still Accutane inside of me? Or is it that my body is now sensitive to all vitamin A?
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- Re: Vitamin A = Lethargy, Joint Pain... grzbear
13 y
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This is a reply to # 1,803,867probably f'd up your own vitamin A metabolic function with the accutane.
What happens when you get vitamin A from a healthy animal source?
There are **no** vegetable sources of the active forms of vitamin A... only forms that need to be converted... and you can only convert if you have the enzymes necessary to do so.
I know another who took accutane that is having the same problems as yourself... raw vegetables make him worse just like you... sick to his stomach even... they have to be cooked and loaded with healthy, pastured butter - rich in active form vitamin A - or taken along with active form, vitamin A rich animal foods, and then he is okay.
I suspect that accutane fubars the metabolic ability to convert carotinoids - and makes people sensitive to them - this is a VERY bad side effect that is not seen in some cases for years after the individual has taken the drug.
And probably one of the reasons behind many lawsuits against the drug.
grz-
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- Re: Vitamin A = Lethargy, Joint Pain... #132242
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MoreThis is a reply to # 1,803,867i imagine ozone would be able to detoxify the accutane from your system over time.
if you are strong enough, some Liver Flushes might also help.
have you ever tried raw food sources of vit. a? it is possible that the raw food sources would be able to help you detoxify the toxic forms. i would try some very small doses of carrot juice or raw liver to see what happens, very low dose in case it doesn't work. stay away from all synthetic forms of vit.a and perhaps even beta carotene.
add in turmeric, milk thistle, and hepatoprotective herbs to the diet.
try beets, sauna, clay packs over the liver.
perhaps a change in diet, do the george costanza opposite diet-- whatever you have been doing, try the opposite. i.e if you are vegan eat meats, and if you are eating hamburgers every day, go vegan.
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- Re: Vitamin A = Lethargy, Joint Pain... UserX
13 y
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This is a reply to # 1,803,874Don't worry. I've been on a paleo diet for a while now. When I eat a handful of carrots, a few minutes later I'm completely out of it, exhausted. When I eat eggs or dairy products containing vitamin a, I get the exhaustion and everything else (joint pain and stiffness, dry skin).
I'm not sure what path I need to take to fix this. Sine I've been taking liver detox supplements, I've been feeling a bit better. I've also heard of many stories of Accutane sufferers doing colonics and Liver Flushes to rehabilitate themselves.
Should I try Liver Flushes and colonics?- Re: Vitamin A = Lethargy, Joint Pain... grzbear
13 y
9,355
This is a reply to # 1,803,879do what you believe you must to correct your issues.
Think for yourself.
We are all so very different due to the metabolic fubars created by vaccines and drugs... along with cides, and pollutants of all kinds that we have been all been subjected to, to one degree or another.
Your path to a cure will likely be different than someone else's...
We walk these roads alone - save for the support we may get from others who walk similar paths.
grz-
- Re: Vitamin A = Lethargy, Joint Pain... motif
13 y
9,128
This is a reply to # 1,803,881BINGO! was his name...
>>>
do what you believe you must to correct your issues.
Think for yourself.
We are all so very different due to the metabolic fubars created by vaccines and drugs... along with cides, and pollutants of all kinds that we have been all been subjected to, to one degree or another.
Your path to a cure will likely be different than someone else's...
We walk these roads alone - save for the support we may get from others who walk similar paths.
grz-
<<<<<
- Re: Vitamin A = Lethargy, Joint Pain... motif
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- Re: Vitamin A = Lethargy, Joint Pain... Healthiest sick person ever
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This is a reply to # 1,803,879It could be food intolerances , that was my deal and I had similar symptoms.
- Re: Vitamin A = Lethargy, Joint Pain... grzbear
13 y
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- Re: Vitamin A = Lethargy, Joint Pain... UserX
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- Re: Vitamin A = Lethargy, Joint Pain... wombat
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This is a reply to # 1,803,867If I were you I would get a lawyer:
http://injury-law.freeadvice.com/drug-toxic_chemicals/
- Re: Vitamin A = Lethargy, Joint Pain... UserX
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This is a reply to # 1,803,940Advertisement
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There are thousands of people like me. The only people beating them in court are those with Crohn's disease. Many of my side-effects were listed on the side-effects list on the drug. I was a desperate teen suffering from acne, and anxiety.
I'm really just looking to recover. Right now I'm supplementing with iodine, vitD/C/E/B100, Lecithin, Mag. Citrate, and Taurine (good for vitA detox).
And I'm looking into Vitamin K for my bones! I think there may be a balance needed by your body of vitamin K and A. Too much Vit A causes hypercalcification because your body can't utilize the calcium anymore. Nearly all vegetables high in beta-carotene (pro-vit A) are also VERY high in Vitamin K.
This dietary plan along with low-vit A vegetables, fruits, seeds, and chicken/fish combined with cleansing protocols is what I think I need.- Re: Vitamin A = Lethargy, Joint Pain... armstrong
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This is a reply to # 1,804,015Green Pastures butter oil and /or raw butter is a fabulous source of Vit. K2. or does doing paleo mean no diary??- Re: Vitamin A = Lethargy, Joint Pain... UserX
13 y
9,103
This is a reply to # 1,804,067The reason I'm avoiding dairy is because of the active vitamin a in it that exasperates my symptoms. What is the vitamin A content of the stuff?
EDIT: Just saw, it contains vitamin A. :\
I'm going to pick up some Vitamin K2 supplements and see how that works out.
- Re: Vitamin A = Lethargy, Joint Pain... UserX
13 y
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- Re: Vitamin A = Lethargy, Joint Pain... wombat
13 y
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This is a reply to # 1,804,015I admire your spirit~! & I think that you are doing the right thing as in focusing on finding a way to heal yourself rather than concerning yourself with litigation at this point.
Please do keep legal proceedings in mind though. It sounds as though you have developed thyroid problems as a result of accutane and in my research I do not see thyroid problems listed as a possible side effect of that drug although if you search the terms "accutane thyroid" you will find postings on other message boards from people that believe that they have developed thyroid problems as a result of accutane.
The only reference that I can find that states that accutane may have endocrinological effects references the paraben as the causative factor, NOT the retinoids. I don't know if that can be worked with, legally.
http://www.accutanesideeffects.net/
*Accutane contains parabens, which are chemical preservatives known to display estrogenic activity and mimic the body's hormones. These chemical-disruptors may interfere with the body´s endocrine system: the adrenal glands, the pituitary gland, the hypothalamus (in the brain), the thyroid, the ovaries and testes, the pancreas (which secretes insulin and regulates the level of glucose in the blood), the stomach, the kidneys, the skin and virtually every body system.
random thoughts~
Are you avoiding xenoestrogens?
Tend to your liver health. You've gotten some excellent advice in this and prior threads.
And, here's info on the effects of vitamin A on thyroid hormone production:
http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=yHjFyQm6bTEC&oi=fnd&pg=PA149&dq=hy...
ok, I won't bother you anymore re: suing the bastards. It just PISSES ME OFF! I've lost people to western medicine.
Also, depending on the dosage of Iodine you are taking, you might want to look into these companion nutrients as well, especially selenium:
http://www.breastcancerchoices.org/iprotocol.html
- Re: Vitamin A = Lethargy, Joint Pain... UserX
13 y
9,022
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Thank you for sharing wombat.
Yes, I'm avoiding xenoestrogens and mostly all processed foods. I've gone almost completely raw. Thanks for the link to the thyroid connection, I've been looking very deep into scientific studies regarding retinoids and how they're metabolized by the body for a few months now. What I've found is: Taurine can bind to retinoid alleviating side-effects, tocopherols (vitamin E) is beneficial, a balance between the fat soluable vitamins is needed (another reason for vitE/D/K supps), and over time with reduced retinol exposure my body can eliminate the excess toxins. And I've also included selenium with Iodine a while back, and magnesium, lecithin, and possibly a couple others I'm forgetting.
And regarding the legal stuff. I've wagged my odds greatly and I don't feel I have a chance. It only took the drugs 3 weeks to do all this damage, then I stopped. Trust me, I've been furious at times, regretful, sad, etc. I've been all over the board in terms of emotions and mindset regarding this setback. I'm past that emotional roller-coaster. And if I see the chance arise for monetary ratification then I'll take it. But for now it's just not there.
I've chosen to always seek improvement, and better my life regardless of its current state. And I'm glad to have found this forum on my journey.- Re: Vitamin A = Lethargy, Joint Pain... wombat
13 y
9,052
This is a reply to # 1,804,1603 weeks? Good grief!
I have a lot of admiration for you. :)
Have you seen this board?
http://ragforum.freeforums.org/index.php
Does accutane store in body fat? I know, you're thin, but we all have some fat.
If so, at some point, perhaps this info might help:
//www.curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1020086#i
I can't find info on an established protocol on detoxing that crap. I think that you are inventing it!
- Re: Vitamin A = Lethargy, Joint Pain... UserX
13 y
10,611
This is a reply to # 1,804,173Taurine:
http://books.google.ca/books?id=BuA9yaxl33kC&pg=PA453&lpg=PA453&dq=taurine+re...
http://140.121.155.217/seminar/M96320047-2.pdf
Vitamin E:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9093712
Vitamin D:
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/115/7/929.full.pdf
Just a few links I was able to find quickly. There are more, unfortunately I didn't save them all. For a while I wasn't finding anything in my searches, you just need to hit the right keywords (retinoid, 13 cis retinoic acid, and also utilizing the quotes "" in google searches for things like "reduce retinoid" and stuff).
I've seen that forum, and yes isotretinoin is fat soluble.Advertisement
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- Re: Vitamin A = Lethargy, Joint Pain... #132242
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This is a reply to # 1,804,184can you give a few more specifics?
you said you have tried paleo, but have you tried any raw paleo. i wouldn't go into it hog wild, just try a few things to start off and see how it goes.
for example taurine absorption can be radically different depending on whether the protein is raw or not.
you seem to have glossed right over ozone which is one of the the best therapies in almost any case of toxicity.
i would also be wary of over-thinking the whole vitamin maze. it can be very seductive at first to think that you can intellectualize yourself out of this mess by making a gigantic flowchart of which vitamins do what, but the body just doesn't work that way. perhaps stop all of your vitamins for a little while and get back to basics, you seem to have a good handle of what diet works for you.
somewhere in this post you said you were thin?
from an ayurvedic perspective, if you are thin or too thin this indicates a vata imbalance. in this case raw vegetables are about the worst thing you can do. warm, cooked, salty and oily foods are indicated in this case, but i am not sure about your dosha.
i am not going to prod you to do liver flushes, but my experience was that taking Liver Cleansing herbs was sort of like pissing on a forest fire compared to the flushes... flushes are a completely different order of magnitude.
accutane is known to cause liver damage, so i would concentrate there first. it seems to me this was the sequence of events for you and the possible adrenal issues are sequelae arising from the initial damage.
if you are strong enough, The Master Cleanse might be a good route for you too.
- Re: Vitamin A = Lethargy, Joint Pain... UserX
13 y
9,013
This is a reply to # 1,804,237It may seem that I'm just desperately trying all this, but it's actually been a while since I've started. I didn't just pick up these different vitamins on one go, it's sort of a collection I've made after trial and error and a lot of research. I'm not using these as my sole purpose of healing, but they help somewhat. I've done a lot of that simplifying an rethinking it. It isn't really that complex, I just take some of the supplements with my meals from time to time. Some days I don't take any at all.
I don't know much about ozone, but I'll look into it.
I looked into the Master Cleanse, but Cayenne pepper contains a good amount of Vitamin A. :\- Re: Vitamin A = Lethargy, Joint Pain... #132242
13 y
9,112
This is a reply to # 1,804,279Advertisement
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master cleanse can be done sans cayenne.
i think a year or less of ozone could resolve your problem if it was all caused by the accutane.
another thing to try...
find yourself a very good homeopath and have them make you a custom remedy from accutane. in a sense you are lucky because you know the cause of your problem, most of the difficulties in homeopathy lie in pinpointing the problem or matching symptoms.
more food for thought...
Vitamin A Antagonists
Blood-thinning medications and other drugs, including aspirin, phenobarbitol, arsenicals and dicumarol (a drug used medically to retard bloodclotting), destroy vitamin A in the body.
Vitamin A is also depleted when nitrosamines are formed in the stomach from the union of nitrites with secondary amines and when the mucous membranes of our respiratory passages are exposed to air pollutants (carbon monoxide, ozone, sulphur dioxide, nitrogen dioxide, lead, hydrocarbons, etc.) In addition, mineral oil used as a laxative absorbs vitamin A and carotene (a naturally-occurring substance in foods which is used by the body to make vitamin A), thereby destroying it.
so hanging out in LA during the height of summer pollution in rush hour with a shotglass of mineral oil should theoretically do you some good.
kidding aside, actually in reading that information i am thinking ozone again because it is an oxidant and will antagonize antioxidants like vit a, vit c, etc etc. there is a therapeutic dose of ozone that is very safe and will not harm you like the other pollutants mentioned.
- Re: Vitamin A = Lethargy, Joint Pain... #132242
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- Re: Vitamin A = Lethargy, Joint Pain... UserX
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- Re: Vitamin A = Lethargy, Joint Pain... #132242
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- Re: Vitamin A = Lethargy, Joint Pain... UserX
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- Re: Vitamin A = Lethargy, Joint Pain... wombat
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- Re: Vitamin A = Lethargy, Joint Pain... UserX
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- Re: Vitamin A = Lethargy, Joint Pain... armstrong
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- Re: Vitamin A = Lethargy, Joint Pain... UserX
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- do not put such silly equation in th... motif 13 y 9,059
- Cleansing UserX
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This is a reply to # 1,803,867This weekend I decided to fast a little and unblock my bowels. I did a few salt flushes, which helped tremendously. Whenever I'm done one, I may feel a bit tired, but my mind feels much clearer. Also, I've been getting a lot of sunlight, and have been going for long walks and focusing on deep breathing. My diet is void of almost all vitamin A (this is really hard with a mostly raw diet) but I've got a pretty good selection of foods. One thing that strikes me though is that for supper I had some chicken, and as soon as I got it down I began getting the puffiness feeling in my eyelids. This usually only happens in the morning when I look in the mirror and see my eyelids are swollen.
Regarding the ozone suggestion, I've been drinking ozoned water for months now, is that what was meant?
And I have another question. If I where to make a green juice with spinach/carrots/etc, would it contain vitamin A? I'm guessing it would.
Expand 19 messages, 21 to 39 of 39 indigorush
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- Re: Vitamin A = Lethargy, Joint Pain... grzbear
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