Hi Luckyam

I had gum problems about 20 years ago, but I was overseas where they gave me a wonderful treatment the "old fashioned" way with four consecutive weeks of deep planning, and then two weeks of Antibiotics , a combination of flagyl and amoxicillin. This combo is known to have a powerful synergistic effect for gum disease, and is widely used in Switzerland and Germany. But dentists in the US know little about it as it is not recommended by the ADA.

About ten years ago, I was treated for Lyme disease and during treatment, one time had a painful flare beneath my teeth. EVen though my gums were fine, it was clear to me that pathogens were hiding beneath my teeth and that they might present a problem in the future.

I don't think it was the Liver Flushes that caused the gum disease. I was doing them because I felt problems coming on, and was trying to be proactive. I think that the pathogens were trying to find the best opportunistic area of my body to express themselves, and the teeth are a great area for that.

Especially in a country that does not react quickly to acute gum infection with Antibiotics . Teenagers can have months of Antibiotics for acne, but others must suffer. By the time I discovered that flagyl and amoxicillin are available as fish medicine on ebay, it was too late. The infection was too deep.

I want to share a couple things. The first is that you can have gum disease for a long time without knowing it. In the early stages it doesn't necessarily cause red gums and bleeding. I know, my daughter had dark pink gums and thought it was normal. She thought that light pink gums were unhealthy. But the gums should be a really light pink, not dark pink. She was living with the beginning stages of infection, completely unaware.

Gum infection shouldn't hurt (unless it is really acute, in which case, brushing would hurt). Sometimes though the nerves get involved, and the sensation can be of pain in the jaw or radiating up into the skull, even just pain at the top of the head. I suppose that exactly how they are involved varies, with the pathogens actually attacking the nerves in some cases, and in others, the nerves reacting to infection in the teeth and becoming reactive. One of the members here told me about poisons produced by the pathogens that affects the nerves.

A tight or misaligned jaw can also be involved, as tension in the jaw can lead to inflammation which allows pathogens to flourish.

In my case, all my teeth hurt, and some were painful when biting on them, even though my gums looked fine (even two periodontists told me my gums were fine). I was in so much pain that I wanted my teeth pulled, but my dentist said that if the infection is in the nerves, rather than in the connective tissue around the teeth, pulling would not be a solution. I could continue to have pain.

In my case, typical approaches didn't work, including the whole array of pulled, water-picked and rinsed natural oils and alternative anti-pathogenics. They do work for lots of people, so trying is certainly worth it.

There are several books you can get on raw milk and autotherapy online at googlebooks. One is called "Autotherapy" by John Duncan. In it, he talks about healing "Riggs disease" (an older expression for gum disease) by collecting the pus runoff of the teeth, making a cultured dilution, and injecting it into the thigh, using a filter however to exclude the bacteria. The poisons produced by the bacteria, and the antigens, are supposed to cause the immune reaction.

This book is really interesting, as the author proposes a theory of immunity and impaired immunity, and how to use the body fluids and infection excretions to basically treat just about anything. The information enabled doctors to create tailor-made vaccinations in their office to any excretion or fluid of the body. Chronic infection in the mouth, according to Duncan, is a sign that the tonsils are impaired, so the immunity of the mouth is disrupted and the body can no longer generate the appropriate response.

After talking to my naturopath, I don't see any way to repeat Duncan's exact directions for an injection, but I have made a homeopathic remedy using the excretions around the teeth most chronically involved, and I've found it helpful.

The book by Armstrong on urine therapy also states that in every case he was treating--mostly for cancer, diabetes, kidney disease--where periodontal illness was also involved, the gum disease was cured as a side-effect of the urine fast. He states, if the body is healthy again, disease loses its hold, regardless of where it was.

I couldn't do a long urine fast--I tried twice. My urine became too acidic to drink. I was experiencing something close to hyperketosis, I think, and I felt very sick. I may try again in a few weeks.

What I am doing now involves drinking in the morning, rubbings with aged urine, occasional brushing with urine, and I think this is more important than I give it credit. I only use a few drops at a time as a rub. When I think that three months ago, when I started, I was paralyzed with pain in my jaw and up into my head, unable to think or function, and that now I have hardly any pain and my functioning is maybe 75%, the major improvement in the pain came with aged urine rubbings on my face and neck. I think possibly the remaining ammonia plays a role, but it's also a highly alkaline fluid and as the pathogens prefer an acidic environment, perhaps that plays a role as well.

I also rinse with aged urine and try to hold and pull it about ten minutes as if it were oil.

You may also want to to a pro-nerve protocol, with methyl vit B12, soy lecithin, and fish oil, high dosages of each every day. That can stop the reactivity of the nerves to whatever is going on in your teeth. I read about this on another site, and found it very helpful.

The idea of the raw milk and meat is to get the immune challenge on the one hand, and on the other, to imbibe some parasites that actually go into the places of infection and eat away the inflamed tissues where the pathogens make their home. I would never have believed this if I hadn't experienced it, but the week I began eating this way, most of the puffy tissue in the roof of my mouth behind my teeth disappeared. I can no longer feel those tender places with my tongue.

I also use raw honey, sometimes as often as once a day. I put it up against the base of my teeth and the gums, often about ten minutes before using the water-pic. Honey is hugely antipathogenic.

I am still fighting this infection, and I notice that if I am not up on my protocols, I do lose ground. Also, I feel that now the infection is less in my mouth, but more in my body overall. But I also feel my body mounting an immune response to it, and I'm hopeful.

So many of us are struggling, dear Luckyam, with at least one century of experimental vaccines and secret germ warfare behind us.

Take care.

Hi lucikam,

I must withdraw my previous, made in a hurry, assessment of your symptoms due to the fact that I made it on the incorrect assumption that all your gums were inflamed and your body seemed to be emaciated.

I still, though, believe and read it between the lines of your first post that your nutrition has been inadequate and you probably have abused your body trying to keep it lean and fat free.

What you need is healthful, nutritionally dense, alive food not pills and drugs.

Love,

Anne