What research shows that urine ph re... 
LoricaLady
11 y
7,348
I am wondering if the "Ya gotta be alkaline" belief in alternative health circles is valid. I see some people, online, saying Yes and some saying No the blood ph stays the same. None of them seem to be offering any data based research.
I don't like hypothetical arguments, though I know research papers can be unreliable too. I do know that growing up and for many years thereafter I'm sure I no way had a diet that was even half alkaline. Lots of meat and milk and potatoes, even some candies, cereals. There were some fresh fruits & veggies but not as a big part of the diet. Yet I was very healthy.
The reason I really need to know is because I have been mega mega dosing on ascorbic acid for adrenal insufficiency. Nothing helps the adrenals like Vitamin C. But I cannot take sodium ascorbate due to the high salt content and baking soda in it. The ascorbic acid makes me have a very low ph in urine, though the saliva ph is okay.
Who is right on this issue, and what research is there to prove it? Maybe some people just want to sell books about alkalinity as the golden key to health and/or the people who want to sell those ph papers have a campaign going on to indoctrinate the public through fear about the ph levels. Or maybe it's all true. So confusing.......
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- Re: What research shows that urine p... natway
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This is a reply to # 2,145,916I'd like to see some research too because most of alternative health claims I've looked into seem to be bogus. After all, the reason it's called "alternative medicine" is there is little or no scientific data to back up their medical claims.
However, if you're worried about mega doses of Vit C raising your acidic PH, why not eat a bunch of fruit daily which are the foods highest in natural Vit C and supposedly turn alkaline?
BTW, do you have adrenal insufficiency verified by an MD, or so-called "adrenal fatigued" diagnosed by an alternative doc?
- Re: What research shows that urine p... parazapper
11 y
6,498
This is a reply to # 2,145,927OK, I used to be a chemist many years ago.
From this and what I learned in college, the answer is in the ability of the body to buffer pH changes. When we are young, the body seems to have a strong buffering capacity. That is that it is able to neutralize excess acidity or alkalinity. Young people rarely get acid reflux, unless they are really abusing something.
Much of the buffering comes from ionic groups such ad bicarbonate and biphosphate. We all know about sodium bicarbonate, right? Baking soda ( not baking powder ) is a strong buffer. It neutralizes acids. Yep, some folks take baking soda for an acidic stomach and it works. Put it on a bee sting, rub it in to the puncture hole, and it will reduce the pain and swelling because bee stings are ??? formic acid.
So, take some sodium bicarbonate and put into a chamber with a small funnel at the top. Put some vinegar in the funnel and let it drip into the carbonate. Out comes carbon dioxide gas. You can use this to make things put-put around in the bath tub to keep the kids entertained.
Back to the buffering:
The body has plenty of reserves of both phosphate and carbonate in the bones. However, taking too much acid over the years can reduce the level of access to these reserves. That is that much of the easy to get to phosphates and carbonated have been removed. As a result, many people, as they age, develop soft weak bones, or even brittle bones. Note that this is not the only cause but can be a major contribution.
When we are young and consume lots of acidic substances, the bones provide an easy to use reserve so we really do not notice. Hey guys, lets drink a quart of phosphoric acid and carbonic acid every day for 20 years and see if we don't notice something eventually! The body will go to extremes to keep the blood pH at the proper level, otherwise, it could be deadly.
Understand this, the body will sacrifice major portions to keep the core alive and well. To either cold or heat, the body will attempt to sacrifice the limbs to preserve the core. To keep the pH at a safe level, the body will sacrifice bone.
As a point to this, the blood itself is not as badly damaged by a low pH as the core is. When pH drops to an low level, about 7.25 pH, which is still actually alkaline, the kidneys start to fail. They can not properly function when the blood pH gets that low. Remember, the kidneys are pumping out acidity much of the time. We also get some out through the lungs as carbon dioxide.
However, even more sensitive is the ability of immune cells to properly respond. Almost all of the immune cells have an optimum pH of about 7.38. Even a slight variation in either direction can have a dampening effect on the immune cells.
There were many studies done on this back in the 1920's and 1930's but you will rarely see anything published today, mostly because it is 'old hat'. If you want to find much on this topic you will have to dig way back in the archives.
It is sort of like the commercial "15 minutes can save you ...", yeah sure, if you are really being bilked (TIC). Oh!, yes, everybody knows that.
So, you commonly hear that there is a link, but no studies cited. Mostly because the studies are close to 100 years old. Why reinvent the wheel?
Sorry that I did not actually cite the studies, just don't have the time to dig through the archives.
- Re: What research shows that urine p... LoricaLady
11 y
6,316
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This is a reply to # 2,145,951Thanks. I wouldn't know how to dig into the archives. I don't know if the research is good and ignored, or outdated. Don't have the skills to determine that.
Would you please help me by going down to a more mundane, practical, level? I see what you are saying to a certain extent.
I have also seen sites saying the research does not support that there is any bone or calcium or kidney problems with too much acidity. But...at the same time they do seem to be saying that years and years of acidity can be detrimental.
As I said above, I am eating as many fresh fruits and veggies as I realistically can.
I have to have some proteins & carbs to be healthy and not feel hungry. At 1 & 2 grams of C that, and maybe some lemon juice and Watermelon let me be mostly alkaline. Now, even with an entire lemon, a half grapefruit & a half cup of apple cider vinegar mixed with the lemon juice (I assume you believe ACV and lemon juice cause the body to be alkaline though they are acidic outside it) sipped on in water throughout the day, I am still very acidic.
What would you do? What would you take. I can't take baking soda because of all the salt. I need to restrict my salt to less than a teaspoon a day to keep my blood pressure normal. The baking soda gives me a funky feeling in one kidney and it is associated with kidney problems.
What would you do, in practical terms? Maybe this is an impossible, unfair Q. Maybe there is nothing I can do.
Do you think it is okay to go on with my experiment with mega mega mega C for at least a couple of weeks - that maybe for that period of time it won't hurt my bones?
People like Dr. Levy and others say you can't have too much Vitamin C. But I wonder. I did contact them and here is the site they sent me re acidity and C. The thing is they talk about C being mildly acidic, but I know from those little ph papers that it is way, way acidic at high levels.
Sorry this is so long. But it is a complex issue and I so want to take the C and not be unhealthy but healthy.
http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v05n10.shtml- Re: What research shows that urine p... parazapper
11 y
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This is a reply to # 2,146,013From one of my old posts: http://w.curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=1615107
As requested:
Alkaline Water concentrate
by David Etheredge
I use the following in 1 gallon of springwater to make a concentrate:
1 tbsp pickling lime (calcium hydroxide)
1/2 tbsp Epsom Salt (magnesium sulfate)
1/4 tsp no-salt (potassium chloride)
1/4 tst baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) I originally used Sea Salt for the sodium but baking soda provides additional alkalinity..
vigorously shake to dissolve each time that some is used as follows:
I take 1 tbsp of the concentrate and dilute to 1 gallon of water.
I drink 2-4 glasses of this every day depending on my needs. Do not drink too much. Also, take vitamin D to help with calcium absorbtion. Reduce this amount if you experince any abnormal health signs.
My pH was very acid (approx. 5.8) a year and a half ago (2006) and the alkalyzing diet was not working fast enough.
My pH is now within normal range. It is important to use care not to over-alkalyze as this can be as bad as being too acidic. Get close to normal then reduce consumption of alkaline water.
Another important element is Iodine which is best painted on the bottom of the feet ( Lugol's Iodine).
Also, do not forget to visit http://paradevices.com as I have over 100 pages of information posted there on many health topics. There is a link at the top of the menu. Click on it.
Expand Zapper and Zapping Topics
To Include topics on parasites, cancer, HIV, herpes, and much more.
Also, other trace minerals such as zinc and selenium are important too.
- Re: What research shows that urine p... LoricaLady
11 y
6,384
Cancer: What Your Doctor Did Not Tell You
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This is a reply to # 2,146,102Thank you very much. I am very leery of baking soda, but I'll see if just 1/4 tsp is okay. Will definitely try your formula.
I do take zinc, selenium but will maybe increase them a bit with your formula. - Re: What research shows that urine p... grzbear
11 y
6,528
This is a reply to # 2,146,102getting enough sun and healthy fats will help the manufacture of *D*; just get enough sun.
Sodium elevates the absorption and proper utilization of calcium on its own.
grz-
- Re: What research shows that urine p... LoricaLady
11 y
6,201
This is a reply to # 2,146,195Well, I do try to get enough sun when the sun's rays are at the right angle for helping with Vitamin D production in the bone marrow. But I don't live in a tropical climate, like in Floria. I gotta wait until later in spring. In the meantime I do take Norweigian (not so likely to have mercury) cod liver oil daily along with some D3 supplements.
- Re: What research shows that urine p... LoricaLady
11 y
6,201
- Re: What research shows that urine p... LoricaLady
11 y
6,384
- Re: What research shows that urine p... GlacialHealth
10 y
4,729
This is a reply to # 2,146,013My understanding with vitamin C is that if your body is stressed it usually needs more. And if your body needs more, it won't throw your body off kilter to up the doses, it's simply being used up by your adrenals or immune system or whatever needs the C to help you feel better. So there shouldn't be much left over to throw off your pH.
As a rule of thumb, once you get loose bowel movements you should back off a bit on the C. But until then, it's okay for your body to get big doses because it's using it up!
- Re: What research shows that urine p... parazapper
11 y
6,297
- Re: What research shows that urine p... #112700
10 y
4,565
This is a reply to # 2,145,951I check my urine ph with ph strips every time I urinate. What I have seen is that when my ph is lower than about 7.3 then my energy is, or will soon become, low too. The lower the ph the less the energy. Now I am hypoadrenal and such folk tend to have acidic urine and to fatigue easily of course.
- Re: What research shows that urine p... LoricaLady
11 y
6,316
- Re: What research shows that urine p... LoricaLady
11 y
6,384
This is a reply to # 2,145,927Thanks for your reply. I have had a urine test for adrenal insufficiency, plus I have informal symptoms, like the flashlight in the eyes informal test you can see on stopthethyroidmadness.com, and symptoms such as Dr. Michal Lam (here on CZ) talks about. I also am hypothyroid which is commonly associated with adrenal insufficiency. I was able to get off hydrocortisone for a month or so, then had a crash again. Vitamin C has helped me so much in the past to rise from a crash, but it seems I need more than before, maybe because I went off the hydrocortisone.
I have been researching more, even since I started this string, and it seems sure that urine does NOT reflect blood ph. Blood ph has to remain very stable or we have life threatening disability.
I do eat a lot of fruits & veggies, I promise. But there is only so much you can eat in one day. I also need some carbs and protein and they raise acidity. When I was only taking 1 or 2 grams of Vitamin C I could raise my alkalinity through the produce, but not any more.
I am going to continue with mega mega mega dosing on C as I feel beter, though my urine is acidic, and continue eating those alkaline foods too as they are of course good for one.- Re: What research shows that urine p... saywhatagain
11 y
6,540
This is a reply to # 2,146,009Hi, I bought into the whole 'you have to alkalize your body' hype a few years back, but I have learned a bit since that time. First of all, I DO believe that once a body is in too much of an acidic state, it does create a state that is ripe for disease to develop but I don't believe in the hype of the 'alkalizing' diets and Alkaline Water and such things. You have already figured out the answer to your initial question, no the acidity of the urine does not have any correlation to the acidity of the blood. The blood will always be alkaline or you would be dead. Certain parts of the body will be acidic in a healthy state including the stomach and small intestine (probably the majority of the intestine is at least somewhat on the acidic side even in a healthy state).
That being said, acidosis of the body is an extremely harmful state for the body to be in. This basically means that throughout the entire body, the balance has been tilted toward being acidic. For me, the thing that has helped me understand all of this is Ayurveda (traditional Indian medicine). Understanding Ayurveda correctly is a quite difficult process as there is a lot of misunderstanding on the subject.
Basically, what I have learned is that the proper way to reverse the process of acidosis is not to follow some fad 'alkalizing' diet, but to work on the underlying issues and re-balance the entire body so that it functions optimally. The stomach and other digestive organs, especially the pancreas (which naturally produces sodium bicarbonate) when functioning optimally, should be able to produce proper alkalizing minerals.
As far as diet, meat is certainly acidifying, as is a high-fat diet), but I strongly disagree with the idea that grains and milk are acidifying to the body. Maybe in the short term (meaning within the first 6 hours of digestion or so) they could have an acidifying effect as the waste products of anything with and adequate amount of macro-nutrients will be at least somewhat acidifying to the body. But long term, the nutrients contained in wholesome whole grains and milk will actually help the body build its reserves of alkalizing minerals. Really, what the idea of the 'alkalizing' diet amounts to is to starve yourself, you eat tons of alkalizing vegetables that have almost no macro-nutrients, so sure you add tons of alkalizing minerals with basically no calories (so very little acidifying waste), you will alkalize your body initially, but totally destroy the balance of your body and probably deplete your body of a lot of minerals and nutrients that actually keep you healthy. Some of the 'alkalizing' fanatics will even tell you that most fruits are acidifying which is utterly ridiculous. At any rate, a balanced diet low in meat and high in grains, legumes, fruits and veggies is generally alkalizing, but if you really want to alkalize the body, that has to do with correcting the underlying imbalances and that requires a lot more research on your part.
As far as taking large doses of vitamin C goes, I am not a fan of this or taking anything that is separated from actual food. I don't believe natural vitamin C would ever be acidifying but supplementing with large doses of artificial (or at least separated from real food) is very likely to be acidifying.- Re: What research shows that urine p... LoricaLady
11 y
6,231
This is a reply to # 2,146,026Thanks for your post. That is interesting what you say about grains and milk. From what I have researched about milk I think it is bad for people. Also my own personal experience showed that. I had a chronic ear infection and resulting dizziness for a very long time. After I gave up milk it was gone in a month.
After all the research, I am coming to the conclusion that this is the age of information. And misinformation. And disinformation. (It's always been the latter two throughout history, though.) - Re: What research shows that urine p... LoricaLady
11 y
6,188
This is a reply to # 2,146,026P.S. Would you please tell me what data you found that makes you feel that grains are not acidic in the long run? I'd love to know if that is true. Ditto things like nuts, peanuts, if you know.
- Re: What research shows that urine p... saywhatagain
11 y
6,181
This is a reply to # 2,146,035Hey, I totally, agree with you about this being the age of information and disinformation, you hit the nail on the head with that one. I believe our current age is pealing back the layer of complete darkness and ignorance but it is not being replaced with complete truth it is being replaced with half-truths and illusion. You can already get a preview of what is to come with many new-age movements and alternative medicine practices that are popping up. I believe that once the old age collapses completely, these new-age movements will grow exponentially. If you think there are a lot of phony (and many times somewhat insane) spiritual gurus and health gurus out there now, just wait.
Everything that I understand has come from using the principles of ayurveda. Ayurveda teaches that there are three underlying forces of nature, earth, fire, and air. Earth is mainly alkalizing and is increased by most types of simple and complex carbohydrates and dairy (among other things). Fire is mainly acidifying and is increased by meat and substances that are sour and pungent (spicy hot). I have been eating a diet very high in carbohydrates (mainly grains, legumes, fruits and veggies, including supposedly acidifying veggies) for the past 4 years or so and have had ZERO problems with acidity. Actually, even the fad 'alkalizing' diets worked for me for a while until I realized I was basically starving myself and developed some severe nutritional deficiencies. It was at this point that I added large amounts of healthy carbohydrates into my diet and acidity was never even an issue on my radar.
Again, the 'science' of the 'alkalizing' gurus, if it can be called science, is only based on the immediate effects on the body after digestion, it has nothing to do with cellular nutrition that takes place many hours if not days after ingesting a substance.
While I don't believe that modern nutrition has all the answers. Current nutrition based on chemistry and physiology in the human body finds no correlation between consuming carbohydrates or milk and acidosis. However, modern nutrition does see a correlation between high fat and high meat diets and acidosis.
Aside from all of this, again I believe the key point is that a properly functioning digestive system is the main aspect that regulates proper acid/alkaline balance in the body. Ayurveda identifies that every person is different and will require a specific diet for themselves personally. In ayurveda, some people should purposely eat foods that increase fire (or acidity) in the body, which will in turn increase the digestive fire and decrease overall acidosis in the body. If the digestive system is not working properly, almost all substances become not only acidifying but toxic.
As far as milk goes, I'm not going to try to convince you one way or the other if you should drink it or not. Milk is basically all the nutrients that exist in a cow's blood minus the red blood cells. If it is completely unprocessed in its natural state, I believe it is very nutritious but only if it can be digested. Again if digestion is impaired, milk and most other substances become toxic.
As far as my understanding goes, nuts would be mainly acidifying to the body (as with all unsaturated fats) but that doesn't mean we shouldn't eat them. It means we shouldn't eat them in large quantities (again in ayurveda it varies depending on the individual). Nuts are very nutritious and a small amount goes a long way. Peanuts have very little nutritional value, the best are walnuts and almonds. Even better are pumpkin seeds and sunflower seeds, not acidifying from my viewpoint.
I know I am throwing a lot of information at you and you have no reason to trust my crazy theories compared to all the other crazy theories out there, but anyway just food for thought and see if anything clicks with your understanding.- Re: What research shows that urine p... LoricaLady
11 y
6,283
This is a reply to # 2,146,061I appreciate you taking the time to respond. Don't know much about ayurvdic medicine. I do respect another age old health system, namely Chinese Traditional Medicine (not necessarily wanting to get those needles in my body though) and they seem to have similar ideas.
I eat peanut butter for the protein, which combined with some grains makes them complete (or so they say, another controversy.)
Yes, I know even more "New Age", really Old Age rehashed, is coming up. From my research some think, for ex., we're all gonna see a fake "alien" invasion some day. We will be told they are our "gods from above" who genetically seeded us, and other nonsense. Actually a quick check on Vrill machines from Nazi Germany shows exactly where flying saucers come from and I believe those "aliens" are really just genetically modified chimeras.
The goal with the "elite" is always to deceive and attempt to enslave through various means.
But that's another topic.
Thanks again.
- Re: What research shows that urine p... LoricaLady
11 y
6,283
- Re: What research shows that urine p... saywhatagain
11 y
6,181
- Re: What research shows that urine p... LoricaLady
11 y
6,231
- Re: What research shows that urine p... natway
11 y
6,247
This is a reply to # 2,146,009Was this an alternative doctor that gave you the urine test? I'm not aware of MD's doing a urine test to determine AI. It sounds like an alt doc gave you that diagnosis and wondering if they are trying to tell you you have so-called adrenal fatigue as AI would mean your cortisol levels are always low throughout the day from there being actual physical damage to your adrenal glands where the theory of "AF" is where your adrenal glands are too stressed out to produce proper levels of hormones, although most people here who thinks or been told they have "AF" have high cortisol levels and I also disagree with the theory of "AF" and think it's something else that's totally correctable. I know mega doses of Vit C are recommended by a lot of alt docs for "AF" and they also utilize the flashlight in the eye test.
I'm asking this because after my own experiences from dealing with my own health battles that one, a lot of people here are most likely misdiagnosed and two, I don't really trust alternative practitioners for diagnoses anymore and would more trust MD's to make diagnoses because they are bound by science. Not saying MD's don't make mistakes or know everything, it's just that alt docs don't have to rely on Science for their diagnoses, hence the term "alternative" medicine.
I'm also in agreement with saywhatagain about relying on getting most of your nutrients for foods than supplements. I think supplements have their place to help you get back on track, but if you have to take them longterm then they are just being a bandaid and it's my opinion a person is not on the correct diet. I'm also in agreement that you shouldn't have to worry about starches or grains if you keep your fat intake relatively low and especially if you eat a lot of fruit and veggies. I eat a mostly plant-based high-carb/low-fat diet now and it quickly healed me of most of my health problems very quickly.
- Re: What research shows that urine p... LoricaLady
11 y
6,219
This is a reply to # 2,146,052I got the urine test from a regular doctor. Well, he was an M.D, practicing as one for decades. but very friendly to alternative ideas so in a way he wasn't too regular. I have had awful experiences with "regular" M.D.s though sometimes they are helpful in some ways.
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