Help, I suffer from Nitrosative Stre... 
finn7
10 y
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Hi folks,
I recently had a urine test done where some kind of chemical was measured which shows wether you have nitrosative stress.
It turns out that my levels are evelated. I think it was called nitrophenylic acid or something like that. The normal range goes from 0-3 and my level was at 5.8.
I'm really worried now. I read about nitrosative stress and it seems to be relatively unknown and there are scientists who think that it is responsible for multisystemic diseases!
I must add that I am overall in very bad health. I now worry that nitrosative stress could be behind all my health issues (low testosterone, rheumatic problems,depression,anxiety,concentration issues, brain fog, adhd-like symptoms,eye floaters, severe visual snow, general really bad health status)
I have really huge neurological/psychiatric issues. I thought for a while that it's adhd but it's not. I tried ritalin for a while and it didn't help me with my issues. I suffer from brain fog which I experience almost daily. I feel totally burned out. I have already tried various antidepressants and also memantine. I was thinking maybe due to the high stress which I have my glutamate could be out of whack but memantine doesn't help. I still get the brain fog daily. I totally suffer from this! I feel like I'm no longer myself. Memantine also seems to mess with my memory which also really worries me. My recall has gotten much worse. I can't tell if I did something yesterday or
wether it was the day before and so on. Every day I get this feeling in my head where I feel totally distances as if I'm intoxicated. I hardly ever had a clear mind.
Also the visual disorders are totally concerning. All the time my vision is flickering and trembling. I see sparks of light, too. When I close my eyes I still see things. I see TV static or lights. I have been having this for years and it's getting worse. I had my eyes checked many times besides the floaters they are okay. I think that the visual disorders are neurological. I think that whatever I perceive with my eyes points to something going rampant in my brain!
I have no doctor who can help me with this. The doc who ran the test only told me to start upping my dose of antioxidants. But I am already taking
vitamin E,C, multi vitamin, fish oil.
I really don't know if upping my C and E is going to fix this problem.
I also worry now that taking fish oil for many years (2grams per day) could actually have been bad for me. I mean I know now that I have nitrosative stress and I also know that I have elevated oxidative stress (confirmed in different blood test). I have been taking fish oil for years! And most of the time I only took fish oil and nothing else. No other antioxidants.
What if this was totally harmful cause the EFAs oxidizes?
I read stuff about nitrosative stress which made my head spin. I feel so miserable right now.
For example one article from a doctor who said that even if you take single vitamins like C can be bad cause C can oxidize and then cause harm.
It basically sounded like if you have nitrosative stress you need a supplement therapy individually designed for you!
But how shall I get this? I have no doctor who is specialized in nitrosative stress.
What do I do now? Now where I found out about nitrosative stress I feel like I'm facing an issue which is so complicated and mostly unknown that nobody can help me with it. I feel even more despaired now. The whole time I felt bad and knew that something's wrong with me and this diagnosis only makes me feel worse than before.
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- Re: Help, I suffer from Nitrosative ... tom3tom
10 y
9,180
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First some basics: while that doc who told you single vitamin c is an oxidant is technically true, it's not the whole story. c is first metabolized to a pro-oxidant molecule in the body, but then after it acts as an anti-oxidant.
if the body stores of E a fat soluble vitamin antioxidant are adequate, it steps in as an intermediary to put C back into its antiox form.
the way around that has been known for decades, & that is why u usually see C paired with E and even A (as A C E) in a supplement bottle.
have u had a pyrroles test done at any time to find out if you're pyrroluric?
The eyes to function preferentially need/use ZINC more than any other nutrient, so i note here you are on the pyroluria forum, which is caused by mainly a zinc deficiency, being depleted due to its combining with excess created pyrroles in the blood.
your visual problems just might be a symptom of a zinc deficiency?
you have to ensure the fish oils u use are high quality; many are highly oxidised (rancid= fishy smell) garbage, so u must ensure again that you at least take an E supplement.
the peroxides in bad oxidised oils are bad from any source, including any/all fried or deep fried foods.
the brain fog could be many things: excess ammonia waste not converting to urea, it could be a defect or blockage (toxins) in the methylation cycle somewhere, or in the folate cycle which is closely beside:
http://vas.sagepub.com/content/20/2/88/F1.large.jpg
not shown well or in detail that diagram, look at "B12" & "ATP" where they are-- B12 actually has TWO active forms in the body, both operate nearly independently in different ways & systems!
u need methylcobalamin B12 for the CNS/nerves/spinal fluid, but you need the other active one, adenosylcobalamin, to run the mitochondria, which are the resident energy plants that churn out the critical ATP used everywhere.
if they are plugged with toxins, they drop to extreme poor efficiency, putting out only 2 ATP per cycle ANAEROBICALLY, instead of 38 ATP output per cycle AEROBICALLY.
So of course near zero energy to run the body's cells, & extreme physical fatigue. since the brain uses such a huge % of the body's energy, a shortage there is brain fog.
nerves will have pain symptom if energy is low.
both available as separate sublingual supplements; B12 "shots" or needles have been available for decades. but first u have to determine if that area is your problem.
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-adenosylcobalamin.htm
go here & look at the LH side 9 panels of grey pattern lines-- if u can't see at least 7 of the 9, u have VCS which means u have toxins blocking the visual processing cells somewhere, either in the eye or at the visual processing waystation enroute from the retinal nerve to the brain.
http://www.biotoxin.info/
- Re: Help, I suffer from Nitrosative ... tom3tom
10 y
9,227
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More specific info:
re: my post earlier May 12 about the mitochondria being blocked from full ATP energy output due to toxins or lack of specific active adenosyl B12, here's a short article on that. it looks like what you describe for symptoms:
http://vitaminb12deficiency.net.au/VB12Energy.htm
Deficiency in adenosylcobalamin leads to the accumulation of methylmalonic acid, which disupts normal glucose and gluatmic acid metabolism in the cell due to its inhibitory activity on the Krebs cycle and by inhibition of ATP synthase. Continued deficiency of adenosylcobalamin, with resultant reduction in energy output can lead to anorexia, lacrimation, alopecia, and eventual emaciation. In addition there is a build up of lesions in the liver and the development of optic neuropathies - Re: Help, I suffer from Nitrosative ... tom3tom
10 y
9,225
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”The formula you guys have developed is so gentle, unique, and effective.”
I can't find a specific reference to the acid you mentioned, but here's a superb article that looks to encompass exactly what you describe. your nitrosative stress is surely originating in the NO-/ONOO- Cycle.
your symptoms will also match many listed under the deficiency symptoms & diseases.
Short answer is it looks to be the specific hydroxycobalamin B12 (1 of the 4 supplement forms of B12)which can quench the NO- & break the destructive positive regeneration loop of the NO-/ONOO- Cycle:
http://www.immunesupport.com/shop/images/article_8749_CFIDS_FM_sm.gif
have u tried or are you taking a good high dose hydroxy (also spelled 'hydroxo-') B12? It is available under many manufacturers, & for instance amazon.com sells many brands.
it comes in a 1000 ug or 2000 ug sublingual lozenge, about $15- $25 for 1 BT 60 to 100.
unfortunately, the key book on this by the theory's founder Dr. Pall, published in 2007, costs $75 so no one can buy it, or has read it apparently!
http://astore.amazon.com/prohealth-20/detail/078902389X/104-0633642-5692763
Hydroxocobalamin Breaks the NO-/ONOO- Cycle
Hydroxocobalamin (cobinamide), a unique form of vitamin B-12, is a potent nitric oxide (NO-) scavenger. It is the only form of vitamin B-12 that effectively neutralizes the NO- molecule. Hydroxocobalamin is the preferred form of vitamin B-12 required to break the NO-/ONOO- vicious cycle of cellular damage.
The Methylation Cycle and ME/CFS
The methylation cycle is a biochemical pathway required for the manufacture of DNA, RNA, phospholipids (myelin sheath of nerves), neurotransmitters, adrenal hormones and more than 100 enzymes. A fully functional methylation cycle is also required for numerous detoxification reactions.
http://www.prohealth.com//library/showArticle.cfm?libid=13595 - Re: Help, I suffer from Nitrosative ... tom3tom
10 y
9,131
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finn7:
more supplemental info here that looks to verify where the root problem is.
note this picture of the Methylation Cycle & BLOCKAGE, & how that fits into the description below from another site quoted below of how the brain has to, if this main methylation/remethylation pathway is shut down, depend on methionine from the plasma to feed it, meaning from the diet and digestion (where it says PROTEIN FOODS), or the small amount the liver can put into the blood!
http://www.immunesupport.com/shop/images/article_8784_CFIDS_FM_sm.gif
http://orthomolecular.org/library/jom/1996/articles/1996-v11n04-p190.shtml
The brain has available,in contrast to organs such as the liver, only one method to remethylate homocysteine to methionine. However B12 deficiency inhibits the enzyme responsible for this conversion, and the brain, therefore, becomes totally dependent on supply of methionine in the blood.When this supply fails,neuropathy, among other things, may develop. Folic acid as methyl donor is an important factor in methylation and also in converting vitamin B12 into a biological active form.
Remethylation in the Brain
Remethylation of homocysteine is possible in two ways. The first is by way of the above mentioned enzyme methionine synthase, but remethylation can also take place by way of the enzyme betaine methyltransfersase. This enzyme is present in only a few organs,such as liver and kidneys
and is not present in the brains.In this case methylation reactions depend totally on functioning of methionine synthase.10
When both remethylation pathways fail, homocysteine is converted with difficulty into cystathionine , and cysteine because the regulating enzyme is activated by high levels of SAM,and these are lacking. Consequently SAH and homocysteine accumulate, the ratio between SAM and SAH (methylation ratio) is low and methylation is inhibited.10
The brain is capable of remethylation of homocysteine exclusively by way of methionine synthase and in case of disfunctioning methionine synthase enzyme is totally dependent on plasma methionine supply, derived from food or from organs such as the liver,which has the disposal of an alternative synthesis pathway. If this supply also fails, clinical symptoms manifest.
----------------------------------
light striking the retina at the back of the eye is only the start of the tremendous amount of brain power required for processing & inverting the image so we "see" it--that all happens in the lateral geniculate body in the thalamus:
http://cfile27.uf.tistory.com/image/111D38524D08F3A225C775
So any metabolic problems which lead to imbalances of elecrolytes, nutrients, or wastes will cause symptoms in any/all senses.
- Re: Help, I suffer from Nitrosative ... finn7
10 y
9,162
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Hello Tom,
sorry for me replying so late.
Thank you very much for your replies!
Unfortunately I'm not good at chemistry and all these pics and charts don't really say much to me.
I also lend Pall's book. He has protocolls in it which list all kinds of supplements which help against NO stress.
I am not taking B12 yet, but I am planning to get sublingual B12 tablets maybe from Jarrow or Now.
I don't know if this other B12 form which you mentioned is available where I live (Europe). Many supplements which can be bought in the US aren't available here or very hard to get.
I feel really pretty lost with this condition. Most doctors don't seem to know anything about nitrosative stress.
But since I have so many weird symptoms I now wonder how many of those symptoms are because of the nitrosative stress. I have been having these visual disorders for many years and no opthalmologist and also neurologist found anything. This is very frustrating.
I have been taking vitamin E,C,alpha lipoic acid and a multi vitamin for the past 5 weeks but I can't say I feel any positive changes. The visual disorders and the brain fog are still there.
I also did a test for pyrroluria and it was also positive. Seems like I have this as well. I know that my zinc levels in the blood were borderline low last year.
I am having my zinc and B6 levels retested but don't have the results yet.
I am confused cause many doctors seem to think that pyrroluria doesn't exist.
I also have symptoms which totally fit to ADHD but ritalin didn't work at all.
I also don't know if stimulants would actually increase nitrosative stress. This is also scary but I don't know if anyone even researched this. :/
I did the test and I could see the lines in 7 of the boxes.
This site is scary though. It also talks about how dangerous black mold is. We have been having black mold in the bathroom for years and years. Sometimes my mom just removes it with a brush but I don't know if this is safe cause then you probably have it all flying through the air.
- Re: Help, I suffer from Nitrosative ... finn7
10 y
9,162
- Re: Help, I suffer from Nitrosative ... tom3tom
10 y
9,180
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