Hey guys, I've finally found the ant... 
loquat1
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† Cross †
[The original YTube vid. has been taken down, along with my comment below it. Hmm.........I hafta wonder why? But no matter. At least there is a record of my comment here, and I'm now very glad that I posted it on another site for what I hope will be to the benefit of posterity. But regardless, there are many other such vids on YT that run along similar lines. The substitute link that follows is one of many, but if you are remotely curious, a simple search on YT will call up many more examples of this kind of sensationalistic drivel. Unfortunately, I can't recall Mark's surname, so I was unable to search for vids produced specifically by him. In the meantime, the link that follows will have to serve as a worthy substitute - at least until its author decides that it too must be taken down for reasons better known to himself. Ultimately, all such baseless speculation has a sell-by date which ensures its eventual demise. At least, until the next candidate for the office appears on the scene. It was always thus, and so it will continue to be until the very end. And yes, the comment below is as germane to this vid. as it was to the original].
Hey guys, I've finally found the antichrist!!
Then again, maybe not:
Yet another antichrist ID, after how many previous failures by others following the same flawed hermeneutics? OK Mark, please tell me this. What is the last possible year by which his true nature must be plainly revealed for all to see? Presumably, you would want him to go all beelzebubby on us before arthritis sets into those youthful joints of his, right? And when that year comes and goes without so much as a horn or tail in sight, or even a whiff of sulphur, what excuses will you give then for yet another failed ID, and who will you latch onto next as your chosen candidate for the role? Harry's future (as yet unborn) son perhaps? After all, the law of succession assures you an endless supply of possible candidates, does it not?
I assume you're familiar with the work of Tim Cohen, who identifies Harry's brother (William) as the candidate for that role with equal certainty, after first choosing papa Charles for the 'honour' (The Antichrist and a Cup of Tea)? Or David Montaigne, who pins it on Barrack Obama? The list goes on, and YouTube is awash with such identifications, false 'revelations', predictions, date setters, 'prophecies', etc etc. When will you (and others like you) learn that such ventures in prophecy-mongering are always doomed to fail because they are all based on a fundamentally flawed system of prophetic interpretation? Authors like Philip Mauro, Arthur Carver, Charles Alexander, Jay Adams, William Cox, Anthony Hoekema, Wm Hendriksen, Dean Davis, Kim Riddlebarger and Jonathan Menn (among many others) have all shown in their writings that such speculation as you have engaged in here is unprofitable, baseless, borderline obsessional, and ultimately doomed to fail.
I know you will reject all this out of hand now, but when your Antichrist/Harry ID fails, as it inevitably must, I hope you will remember this post, and come back here to continue the dialogue. You might then be a little more willing to concede, despite the astronomical odds you now cite in your favour, that maybe, just maybe, you were barking up the wrong tree.
More
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This is a reply to # 2,350,443I have never heard of Cohen before, but I thought I would at least hear him out. I have heard of Gary Franchi and apparently he wanted to hear him out as well. Must be a Conspiracy against you Brits. ;)
- Re: Hey guys, I've finally found the... loquat1
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This is a reply to # 2,350,448
You can find Cohen's presentation of his version of Antichrist skulduggery here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XsmENG0FD8
So we're all gonna be bar-coded one way or another soon huh? I've been hearing that one for 50-odd years now, and still counting. Unadulterated drivel of course, but typical of the faulty hermeneutic that informs this kind of sensationalist cr*p. As for the Royal Family, I hold no brief for them - I'm a republican by instinct. But to identify any one of them as the Antichrist is pure fantasy, borne of an insatiable appetite for prophecy-mongering that borders on the pathological.
But if you are minded to believe such bs, nothing I say is ever gonna convince you that this kinda stuff belongs to the gothic fiction shelf of an imaginary library. Only time will finally dispel these myths. But if precedent is anything to go by, it's passing will simply make way for yet more false identifications. The sad fact of the matter is that some people simply never learn, and as long as that flawed hermeneutic holds sway, they never will.
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This is a reply to # 2,350,470Having a republican leaning as you say you have, I guess you realize that the man has a right to believe whatever he wishes to believe. But what bothers me about your beliefs is that you seem to find fault with any people who wish to "wait and see" if any of these things have any bearing on our future...as well as giving it time to see whether it is an anti-christ system or not by applying biblical scripture to it.
For instance, we know prayer has many times held back evil by examples we read in the bible. What is to stop us from believing that God allows our prayers to also hold back evil systems that could enslave us today? You may not live to see prophecy fulfilled because of the power of prayer. Perfect example is Trump being elected. People started waking up to realizing how enslaved they really were or they would not have voted for him.
Biblical prophecies must unfold exactly as predicted. I'm not talking about people and their personal prophecies that they say God told them outside of scripture...I'm just talking about biblical prophecies here.
Even if I believed like you do and thought all these bible prophecies have already happened in the past, I would still need to watch and pray to keep evil away. I see no signs that satan has been put away.
As for whether the royal family is part of the anti-christ system...it is no more far fetched of an idea than believing that the vatican has it's own country and it's own infallible King that rules.
I still say we should "watch" as scripture tells us to.
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This is a reply to # 2,350,476
@ refreshed - You make some good points, but please let me assure you that I have absolutely no problem with people believing as they wish. I simply point out, for those who have ears to hear and are willing to examine the evidence for themselves, that they are just plain wrong. You overlook the fact that many of these identifications with antichrist have been linked to actual dates that have either already past, or are about to pass.
If you are now telling me that these have been delayed because of the power of prayer, then why was that not also foreseen, and date-adjusted accordingly? What exactly was the point of the date-setting in the first place if the fulfilment is a moving feast? I'm more than happy to 'wait and see', as you suggest, even though I believe I already know the outcome of such 'predictions'. But by the same token, I would also ask you to bear in mind the potential damage to the credibility of the Gospel in general, and Biblical prophecy in particular, that such predictions can inflict every time they fail. You cannot continue to cry wolf ad nauseum and ad infinitum without eventually paying a price.
So let me conclude by putting this direct question to you. How many more failed antichrist ID's/predictions are you prepared to give any credence before you finally admit that they are utterly futile, baseless, and little more than a distraction to good Christian stewardship & conduct? For example, any chance you might call time on this perennial fiasco if Harry fails to decalre war on God's people in the next, what.........10 years?...........20 years? After all, this guy Mark has confidently identified him with antichrist with a degree of mathematical certainty that puts all other ID's in the shade.
If this prediction also fails, can there ever again be another antichrist ID that carries a greater degree of certainty than this one?
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This is a reply to # 2,350,482It kind of sounds like you are talking about fortune telling, not following bible prophecy. No one knows how God will answer prayer, any more than someone knows when Christ will return.
We wait to see the "signs of His coming". How are we to wait for these signs if the signs happened such a long time ago? There is nothing to "watch" if there are no signs along the way to follow. Scripture would not tell believers that we have spiritual eyes to see what is coming, if there are no spiritual markers set along the way to approximate how close the time is. We just won't know the day or the hour.
Even the unbelievers see something is happening...they are questioning what it's all about. Just like some start questioning at their deathbed whether God exists and even come to belief in Christ at the last minute, God may very well use this countdown to bring in the fence-sitters.
People like me who believe that there are more prophecies to come to light, know that these videos/books written are just people applying scripture to fit the season. It does not mean it's the whole picture of what is going on now or in the future. Are there some people misleading completely...yes, especially if they are claiming a day or hour. But prayerfully speculating the timing of spiritual guideposts they see along the way are not biblically wrong to do.
My belief is if I wasn't watching, I perhaps would fall asleep and probably stop praying if I was just waiting for Jesus to return and nothing else. For even in the days of Noah, the people were warned of the rains coming, but continued eating, drinking and giving in marriage, going about normal life without watching and preparing. Total lack of concern about what was foretold to happen. That is how I see your stand on this issue will lead people, even though it's your right to believe it if you wish.
However, you are correct...only time will tell, but maybe not in our lifetime.
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This is a reply to # 2,350,487
Nobody is saying that the second advent is signless. I can, however, say confidently that any attempt to identify a personal antichrist and place him in a specific time-frame, along with a whole series of events including, inter alia, a rebuilt third temple with a restored Jewish cultus, a 7 year tribulation during which the faithful suffer unspeakable horrors, and all leading to the 'final' battle (ie Armageddon), is inimical to the concept of its imminence, ie that it can occur at any time - even tomorrow if the Almighty so wills it. The lesson to be drawn from this is that we should be living each day as if it could be our last.
The complete absence of these signs is absolutely no guarantee that the second advent is still far off, for:
'While people are saying, “There is peace and security,” then sudden destruction will come upon them as labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.'
I Thess. 5:3 (ESV)
So I beg to differ that my beliefs on the subject encourage complacency. On the contrary, I believe the urgency of our message is enhanced all the more by this understanding of the true nature of the second advent. There's no doubt this is a tricky subject, and I think it boils down to walking a very fine line between watchfulness and avoiding excessive star-gazing:
And while they were gazing into heaven as he went, behold, two men stood by them in white robes, and said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven? This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven."
Acts 1:10-11 (ESV)
In other words, get on with it! You have work to do.
BTW, I put 'final' above inside quotes because, of course, according to the futurist scheme of end-time events, the millennium ends with yet another 'final' battle between good and evil, but that's another subject.
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This is a reply to # 2,350,500The bible is 1/3 prophecy. I think studying and sharing it "is" getting on with it. It's the work that God has assigned many of us to do. But if God has directed you towards JFK study, that's ok too.
So you have more surprises to share with me, do you? We will chat about that at another time I guess. Thanks for your thoughts. I hope you understand mine better as well.- Re: Hey guys, I've finally found the... loquat1
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This is a reply to # 2,350,528
Studying prophecy is highly commendable. Treating it like some kind of Old Moore's Almanac, however, is to miss the point entirely - namely, that 'the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy' (Rev19:10). As you read through your NT, make a note of all the references that point to Jesus as the focal point of all prophecy (like the one cited above).*
When you have gathered them all together, go back and read them all back to back. Whilst you're doing that, make a note of every NT quotation of the OT, and observe how it's applied or interpreted by the apostles. Again, read them all back to back, and compare that with what you believe to be the focal point of prophecy - the result might surprise, even shock you.
And no, my earlier JFK post is no substitute or competition for prophetic study. It was a one-off post to draw attention to the power of the 'deep state' that could threaten Trump's presidency, and the recent smears against him appear to confirm my concerns.
* Let me help you on your way with this small selection by way of example of what I mean, and what's in store for you:
And he said to them, “O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken! Was it not necessary that the Christ should suffer these things and enter into his glory?” And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he interpreted to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself.
Luke 24:25-27
Brothers, sons of the family of Abraham, and those among you who fear God, to us has been sent the message of this salvation. For those who live in Jerusalem and their rulers, because they did not recognize him nor understand the utterances of the prophets, which are read every Sabbath, fulfilled them by condemning him. And though they found in him no guilt worthy of death, they asked Pilate to have him executed. And when they had carried out all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree and laid him in a tomb. But God raised him from the dead, and for many days he appeared to those who had come up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are now his witnesses to the people. And we bring you the good news that what God promised to the fathers, this he has fulfilled to us their children by raising Jesus...
Acts 13:26-33a
And finally.....
Concerning this salvation, the prophets who prophesied about the grace that was to be yours searched and inquired carefully, inquiring what person or time the Spirit of Christ in them was indicating when he predicted the sufferings of Christ and the subsequent glories. It was revealed to them that they were serving not themselves but you, in the things that have now been announced to you through those who preached the good news to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven, things into which angels long to look.
1 Peter 1:10-12
Happy hunting sis.
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This is a reply to # 2,350,539'the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy'
Yes I agree with this scripture fully. I don't see that if someone applies timelines or shows how the anti-christ may be on the scene today in our generation is in anyway taking away from pointing to Jesus.
When it comes to Jesus, it's not just about what He did in the past...but what He is doing now as well. He is alive and active ...not just in history to where He created everything...came to earth as a baby born to a virgin...was crucified, buried and rose again, claiming He would one day return. The story does not end there. He is working in our lives today and is still making history...as well as a future for us. How as christians can we not be pointing to the testimony of Jesus when He is the spirit of what is also happening now as well as then? That is what is so exciting about studying scripture and comparing what is going on in our lives and why we are "watching". We are His witnesses to what He is doing...now...not just sharing what He did for us in the past. They go hand in hand.
Enjoy... from your sis in Texas. :)
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This is a reply to # 2,350,587
Again, making Jesus the focal point of the OT messianic, covenant & 'kingdom' promises and prophecies is not to deny their eschatological content or implication. This is not a case of either/or, but an example of fulfillment and consummation. The overwhelming bulk of the OT covenant promises have been fulfilled in Jesus' first advent and in the people He has called out from every nation - His body, the Church, comprised of the redeemed of all ages from Adam until the last person who enters His kingdom before the last trumpet sounds. There is no salvation outside His name, and no 'second chance' after He returns. When He comes again in glory, that is the end of time and redemptive history, and to teach anything else is a direct and flat contradiction of this fundamental truth. The idea that there is yet to come an extended period of salvation after the second advent lasting anything from 1,000 to 1,007 years, depending on your preferred version of end-time events, is just plain heresy. It is called 'the last day' for a reason. Again, I urge you to examine closely the consequences of Jesus' return wherever and whenever it is mentioned in the NT, then come back here and tell me who is left to inhabit this mythical millennium which is the cornerstone of futurism.
I tell you with every ounce of Christian love that I have at my disposal, this is another gospel that you preach. If Scripture teaches us anything at all, it is that 'now is the day of salvation' (IICor. 6:2). Now is the time, and the sole reason Scripture gives us for any delay in the coming judgment is God 'not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance..' (2 Peter 3:9). Why then do you believe that it is possible to escape such a fate if one chooses to harden their heart when they hear His voice (Heb. 3:15)? Does not Scripture explicitly warn us that '..if they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, much less will we escape if we reject him who warns from heaven' (Heb.12:25)? Have you ever actually thought through the logical consequences of what you believe about the end times? This is not merely an academic question. It is literally a matter of life or death, and eternal at that, coz anyone paying heed to your beliefs could legitimately say 'thanks all the same, but I think I'll wait until after he comes, then decide if I want to accept him as my saviour during his 1,000 year reign. That's more than enough time for me to make up my mind about all this'. So by all means tell me sis., what would be your hypothetical response in this situation?
While you're pondering your reply, let me put another question to you. What was Abraham, the father of Israel, looking for? Was he really looking only for a piece of real estate somewhere in the Levant? Do you really and seriously imagine that's all he cared for? Sight set so low, or appetite so easily sated? Think carefully on this, then read Gal. chs 3-4 and Heb. chs 11-12. Come to them afresh, as if you have never seen or read them before. Read them over and over until their message permeates every fibre of your being, preferably without your futurist prejudices or blinkers if at all possible, coz they will only prevent you from seeing what is otherwise in plain sight. Then come back here again and tell me that the great covenant promises of the OT have not already been fulfilled in the finished work of Jesus Messiah and the community of the redeemed - His Church.
So, see ya in about a month then sis. And happy reading.
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This is a reply to # 2,350,629Are you still having problems with preconceived ideas about other people's beliefs? I have never advocated there ever being a second chance once Jesus returns or any other name for which man may be saved.
Are your christian book writers teaching you these things? Bad mouthing any other belief in order to support their own? If so, ditch them. Yes...a month or many more may be needed.
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This is a reply to # 2,350,634
Really? A futurist who doesn't believe in a millennial reign following the second advent? Well knock me down with a feather. I've never met such a creature, & didn't even know such existed. No, I don't rely on my 'christian books writers' to tell me these things. My primary source is the Bible itself, especially as interpreted by Jesus and the apostles. My secondary sources are dozens of books on the subject, several magazine subscriptions, and countless pamphlets, booklets, etc representing every shade and school of eschatological beilef you have ever heard of, and quite possibly even a few that you haven't.
So yes, guilty as charged your honour. I have indeed made certain assumptions - perfectly reasonable ones I thought bearing in mind your advocacy of futurism in earlier posts. Those assumptions are also based on books written by futurists, not preterists or 'amillennialists'. And no, I won't be ditching them anytime soon, much as I would love to. They are too useful as reference tools to consign them to the garbage can just yet.
But instead of taking offence so easily, why not enlighten me and tell me what you believe happens following the second advent? If I then see that I have unfairly represented your views, I'll be more than happy to offer you my apologies and beg your forgiveness.
I can also take a hint. There are few subjects more calculated to generate heat among Christians than the end-time debate. If you'd rather call time on this exchange, I'll be more than happy to oblige you there as well. The choice is yours - time, or time-line?
Either way, hope you still manage to enjoy the rest of your w/end sis.
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This is a reply to # 2,350,666"I can also take a hint. There are few subjects more calculated to generate heat among Christians than the end-time debate."
The hell debate might. Or calvinism vs. arminianism. :)
I like your new nickname Refreshed, Sis! :)- Re: Hey guys, I've finally found the... refreshed
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This is a reply to # 2,350,668Well if the shoe fits, I guess I should wear it. But it's feeling really tight and uncomfortable right this moment.
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This is a reply to # 2,350,666I believe in a millennial reign of Christ, but not that the reason for it is to give people a second chance. Remember now, I don't believe in a pre-rapture before tribulation. In my way of thinking, people are still alive on earth when He returns. Any rapture of christians, if we want to call it that for labeling purposes, happens before His wrath to destroy and make new, which comes after the 1000 years. I do not mix up tribulation or 1000 years with the final wrath of God period of time.
I do reserve the right to make changes to this hasty explanation for I'm sure there are many things that are needed to be added. I am not dead set in my thoughts completely. I do post videos from different pastors who have different thoughts on the subject, just like you have many books. However, when I die, I hope my family will not have any false ideas about what I believe. It's part of the reason why I work out some of my ideas (right or wrong) privately right here online as I study my bible. For I reserve the right to change my mind, or even have a different idea than others. Off to church I go as well. Have a blessed day. :)- Re: Hey guys, I've finally found the... loquat1
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This is a reply to # 2,350,719
Just in case you missed it further down below, where it appears out of place for some reason.
Leaving aside the fact that Scripture consistently places the resurrection, judgment, and the dissolution of creation, etc., at the time of Jesus' second coming (not 1,000 years later), who then is left to inhabit this blessed millennium?
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This is a reply to # 2,350,758Well some of us here have discussed this before. Whether the judgement (goats on the left, sheep to the right) is in heaven or is it on earth. Because it sounds like two different types of judgement going on.
Rev. 20:4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They[a] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
So it would be whoever was still alive when Christ returns, the resurrected martyrs and whoever was sitting on the thrones to do the judging. However scripture says, the rest of the dead did not come to life until after the 1000 years. But they need to be judged as well at some point. I'm thinking that is when the great throne room judgement takes place. Where the sheep and goats are separated.
Rev 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.
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This is a reply to # 2,350,629Loquat, how do you understand Revelation 20.
Also, I've read that the preterist view is dependent on the book of Revelation having been written before 70 AD. Do you think that's true?- Re: Hey guys, I've finally found the... refreshed
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This is a reply to # 2,350,659Let's hope this commentator does a better job of explaining loquat's beliefs than loquat did mine. For his comment really concerns me.
Question: "Is partial preterism biblical? What do partial preterists believe?"
Answer: Preterism is the eschatological view that the “end times” prophecies of the Bible have already been fulfilled. So, when we read what the Bible says about the tribulation, we are reading history. Preterism is divided into two camps: full (or consistent) preterism and partial preterism. Full preterism takes an extreme view that all prophecy in the Bible has been fulfilled in one way or another. Partial preterists take a more moderate approach, and many partial preterists consider full preterists to be guilty of heresy.
Those who hold to partial preterism believe that the prophecies in Daniel, Matthew 24, and Revelation (with the exception of the last two or three chapters) have already been fulfilled and were fulfilled no later than the first century AD. According to partial preterism, there is no rapture, and passages describing the tribulation and the Antichrist are actually referring to the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70 and the Roman emperor Titus. Partial preterists do believe in the return of Christ to earth and a future resurrection and judgment, but they do not teach a millennial kingdom or that Israel as a nation has a place in God’s future plan. According to partial preterists, the Bible’s references to “the last days” are speaking of the last days of the Old Jewish Covenant, not the last days of the earth itself.
In order for partial preterists to maintain their position, they insist that the book of Revelation was written early (before AD 70). They must also use an inconsistent hermeneutic when interpreting prophetic passages. According to the preterist view of the end times, chapters 6—18 of Revelation are highly symbolic, not describing any literal events. Since the destruction of Jerusalem did not involve the wholesale destruction of sea life (Revelation 16:3) or agonizing darkness (verse 10), these judgments are interpreted by the preterist as purely allegorical. However, according to preterists, chapter 19 is to be understood literally—Jesus Christ will physically return. But chapter 20 is again interpreted allegorically by preterists, while chapters 21—22 are understood literally, at least in part, in that there will truly be a new heaven and new earth.
No one denies that Revelation contains amazing and sometimes confusing visions. No one denies that Revelation describes many things figuratively—that’s the nature of apocalyptic literature. However, to arbitrarily deny the literal nature of sellect portions of Revelation is to destroy the basis of interpreting any of the book literally. If the plagues, witnesses, beast, false prophet, millennial kingdom, etc., are all allegorical, then on what basis do we claim that the second coming of Christ and the new earth are literal? That is the failure of preterism—it leaves the interpretation of Revelation to the opinions of the interpreter.
Those who hold to partial preterism also do not read Matthew 24 in a literal sense. Christ spoke of the destruction of the temple (Matthew 24:2). But much of what He described did not occur in AD 70. Christ speaks of that future time as one of “great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again. If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened” (Matthew 24:21–22). Surely, this cannot be applied to the events of AD 70. There have been worse times in the history of the world since then.
The Lord also says, “Immediately after the distress of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken. At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory” (Matthew 24:29–30). In order for the events of these two verses to have already occurred, Jesus Christ must have returned bodily in AD 70—but He did not. The partial preterist believes that these verses do not refer to a bodily return of Christ but to an appearing of His judgment. However, this is not what a normal, literal reading of the text would lead anyone to believe. It is the “Son of Man” whom people see, not just His judgment.
Partial preterists also appeal to Matthew 24:34 where Jesus speaks of “this generation.” They say that Christ was referring to those living at the time He spoke the words recorded in that chapter; thus, the tribulation had to occur within about 40 years of His statement. However, we believe that Jesus was not referring to the people of His day but to the generation who would witness the events recorded in Matthew 24:15–31. That future generation will witness all of the swiftly moving events of the last days, including Christ’s bodily return (verses 29–30).
The partial preterist viewpoint leads to a belief in amillenialism (or post-millenialism) and is associated with covenant theology. Of course, it rejects dispensationalism. But its main problem is its inconsistent hermeneutic and its allegorizing of many biblical prophecies that are better understood literally. While partial preterism is within the scope of orthodoxy, it is not the majority view among Christians today.
https://www.gotquestions.org/partial-preterism.html
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