veryinteresting info you present. i will say a couple things about rubin. 1. his living multi is the ONLY multi vitamin my stomach can handle. i actually chew it up with food. 2. his degrees are fake, there is no doubt about, he basically admitted as much.

here is another thing. when i read his story the first thing that came to my mind was - okay where did YOU get your soil based organisms from? ya know? i mean obviously his co. did not exist yet, and he wasn't talking about the probiotic you can buy at any health store, so where did he get them? well, you answered my question and thank you for that.

something else you shed light on - i bought the primal defense a few years ago when it first came out, and it worked really well. then i didn't use it for a whie and bought it again recenlty and it didn't seem to work as well. i wonder if this has to do with the type of fermented grass he no longer uses that you meniton on your site? i wonder.

have you used the fermented grass product that you mention on your site? how does that work? great work with investigating this and giving the public access to your data.

I don't know the whole story of Jordan Rubin and whether or not his degrees are fake -- perhaps online -- which does not necessarily mean that they are fake. They are not accredited by an authority and are not traditionally earned. If one needs these to be accredited in order to accept the information from the person, then, naturally, there would be little faith in someone who has one of these degrees.

There is a constant discussion going on about Nutritionist versus Dietitian and where the degree has been earned.

No matter, I accept that JR used the information to develop a line of supplements -- I am just starting them so I can't offer my opinion on them yet (except that they are pricey!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I could have imported them from the U.S. and saved an additional 20% over my 20% special price up here in Canada). However, is that not like anything else that is developed and manufactured? -- it is all for profit. The person who has ferreted out the information and then incorporated it into a more palatable way of ingesting it deserves to make a profit.

As well, people like yourself have now found these EMs, etc., and are informing the public, for which I thank you for your efforts. You are freely spreading the information; your friend and others will be making a profit from the sale of them. However, it seems such a specialized product from the layman's viewpoint -- and one which the layman would be nervous or fearful of taking; within a broader supplement, it becomes one of many ingredients and, therefore, probably more successful in the marketplace. Whether it be for profit or for 'spreading the word', the broader supplement has a greater chance for success in the public arena.

Since these are isolated products is that how you use them yourself? And with great success this way?

I read of a person on one of the sites who had been a bad accident and the EMs seemed to help -- would you have any knowledge about whether just consuming these by themselves would have some success in the case of herniated disks in the spine? (I ask for my sister-in-law who is in agony with little help from the medicoes.)

I appreciate your posting and have bookmarked the various sites for future reference -- especially those EMs.

fsnaturelady