Wow, hadn't come into this forum in a bit, and it was good to see your post. Wondered what happened to you.

No one knows more than you do what to do in a situation - you have to live with the consequences one way or the other. So, I wouldn't presume to tell you what to do!

I have known of a book called "Tough Love" or something like that...many years ago. The premise of the book was that when one spouse is misbehaving, the other one will try everything to subordinate themselves to win them back. This author (and I think psychologist) says that almost never works. As a matter of fact, the other spouse tends to have more disdain for the subordinate, broken spouse. So, it doesn't wake them up or arouse them from their stupor.

This author said that the only thing that even has a chance to work is for the offended spouse to draw firm boundaries and have self-respect, and be willing to take the consequences and follow thru.

People always want what they can't have, or at least what is out of reach. It is (unfortunately) human behavior. They think less of us if we make ourselves too available for them. And, often, they perk up when they realize that they WANT YOU, that someone else wants you, someone else will have you, and PERHAPS that they will not be able to have you. Usually only then will they begin to regain touch with that part of them inside that desires you.

But if you are keeping the sex free-flowing and he gets to have everything served up w/o any effort, he will likely take you for granted and have disdain for what you have to offer. I cannot say this is 100% true or true in your situation, but I believe that you could profit from thinking about this.

The other thing, from personal experience, is that I really don't think that I would live with a guy again without being married. Generally speaking, men don't float into deeper commitment just because they are bonding with you more and more each day. That's a female thing. Men commit themselves to obtain a prize and secure it.

A man that I have loved for years since my youth, recently told me......."if you were living here in Italy, I would probably be staying with you." OH WOW....what a compliment! (tic) That is not the type of relationship and commitment that I would want---where the guy just slides into my home and bed and THEN WHAT??

I think that we can be too casual with our relationships and we want closeness and intimacy in the beginning and we move too quickly. Too quickly into sex, too quickly into closer commitments of various kinds such as living together. We think that we are moving toward a goal (for us, marriage), but men have a totally different view of the arrangement and male/female relationship.

I recently posted and spoke of a phrase that a girlfriend told me a few years ago. She said that it is common to her birthplace in Newfoundland. Perhaps it was when we were all posting on your issue. Anyway, my friend said, "Begin as you wish to continue." I think that is profound.

We females generally want the security of commitment before we really feel affirmed and able to freely give our love (and bodies). We are validated that way. Men are validated sexually (and thru other conquests). They can have all the great sex they want and feel wonderful. But that doesn't necessarily motivate them to want to marry. You may never get him to see the need to move to the next level unless he sees the need to keep you as his own.

How will he discover this?

He won't discover this thru bargaining, begging, lying down as a carpet for him to wipe his feet on, etc.

I'm not saying to make him jealous thinking that you are going to retaliate by finding someone new, etc.

Just think everything thru, and have a quiet and firm and peaceful resolve to do and follow thru with whatever is best for you. Be kind and peaceful and firm. When you are grounded in this way, he will see the positive you that is assertive (not aggressive, not passive-aggressive!). You are calm and saying what you mean and meaning what you say.

That means no arguing!
That probably means no more sex for him w/o commitment to you (you are violating something within you and hurting your core being when you KNOW that you want more than this).
That means being firm about the actions you are taking!
That means NO GAMES!

Don't try to make him jealous. You are ENOUGH for him to love. If he chooses not to love you, then you are worthy of love in the future with some other fine man who will truly appreciate and love you. Don't sell yourself short!!

A sister in the fray, C

girlfriend why would you want someone that dont want you????????????
yeah its hurtful in everyway but still..........get a grip......throw his ass out have yourself a good cry.....(week or two) then go on a shopping spree and forget him....... nobody deserves all that.......come on now are you better than this or do you like to be a door mat?????????????????

Don't hate, dislike or even let yourself become dissatisfied with where you came from. It's like a plant being dissatisfied with the ground that it grew from (low self-esteem and low self-respect).

No matter how much you love them, they are not returning that love. They will, of course, SAY they are, but it is neither a MATCHING amount, nor is it GENUINE (unrequited). Love is only genuine if it is based on RESPECT.

Children's OBSESSIONS with loving their parents are often misguided because parents do not always deserve GOOD honor (Honor your mother and father). To truly honor them, sometimes the child is left with no other choice but to give them the recognition for forsaking their God-given duty to lovingly care for their children.

Be objective and realize that they are not helping you to be a happy, independent person. NEVER feel guilty about keeping a healthy distance from them, that kind of guilt can produce subconscious insecurities and shame (low self-esteem, low self-respect) for the rest of your life. What you are experiencing in this situation is just another part of life. Parents are not gods, they are just people (people who have the choice to either forsake or fulfill their responsibilities just like other people).

They are NOT doing their best (remember, they will tell you they are, they even think they are, but they've lost the abilty to love and respect you as they should because of their selfishness). What they are doing IS wrong (always keep your sense of right and wrong intact).

Your brother is like a trophy to them, they always get to show him off (that is why they FAVOR (not truly love) him. For the most part, they are incapable of TRUE love.

When your parents get older, your brother will, most likely forsake your parents and even likely become an elder abuser (because he learned the same kind of shallow, selfish, insincere and artificial love that your parents have for you). The moment of truth is when they become older and need extra care, your brother will treat them the same as they have treated you (with neglect and a lack of respect).

I'm 51 years old and I'm telling you from experience (my sister has always been the trophy and I was the flunky, something to do with being a middle child?...I don't know, but it got out of hand, maybe it's just human nature at it's worst, but you have to come grips with this heartache before it tares your life apart, do you want a life of nightmares?). Actually, I think it's that they've noticed your good nature and resent it because it makes them look bad (it's a kind of jealousy and you offend their ego). They react by being condescending control freaks that choose their words carefully in order to impose shame, guilt, humiliation and intimidation so that they can manipulate you (strategic communication in order to control the situation).


Forgiveness is:
1) nice
2) kind
3) beautiful
4) wonderful
5) lovely
...etcetera

BIG DEAL! (except God's forgiveness of us, but He's not a victim and suffers no consequences).

If you fall off a mountain, you're still going to have broken bones or be a vegetable in the hospital for the rest of your life after you forgive the person who pushed you or forgive the mountain for being slippery. So even after people forgive each other, there are still consequences for the VICTIM to deal with. Whether or not there is actually a perpetrator that will show remorse for a misdeed, the spectator who knows of your misfortune has the option of showing COMPASSION to the victim instead of indifferently suggesting that you forgive. Forgiveness is of value both spiritually and as therapy for the victim, but do not disregard your own suffering (even though other people have that tendency). Don't become obsessed with your pains and sorrows, but do respect them and give them recognition (kinda like,...if you don't feel sorry for yourself, who will?).

For a sensitive person (which you have become because now you recognized this 'love betrayal'), there are many more disappointments in life and you will tend to be depressed for these reasons, so realize that you are going to deal with things like this for the rest of your life and learn to deal with PROPERLY by simply ACCEPTING that...

THAT'S JUST THE WAY IT IS and there's really nothing else you can
do about it.