Hi all --

I agree with recent posters that detox symptoms can be really severe -- or not exist! Interested to hear what others think. As I posted recently, I notice more of an upswing when I swish with a new oil.

Maybe there is an argument to be made that if someone is too toxic, symptoms can provoke chronic illness? A recent poster offered that experience. I will be interested to hear others weigh in on that front. My position along these lines is that severe symptoms = many toxins being forced out.

I remember once drinking some wheatgrass juice and becoming violently ill for a couple of days. Vomiting, aches, trembling, etc. Was it fundamentally the wheat grass? I doubt it. It was my own body's incapability of handling and processing such a powerful substance that produced a violent reaction. I don't think I have had wheat grass since!

What I take away from these discussions is that cleansing and detox can go too fast for some and that it is the job of people on this forum to be aware of that. Many arrive here at Curezone and become excited when they read about the results people have with various protocols. Some of those may attempt to try too many things at once. (I remember how I was going to Master-Cleanse and Liver-Flush all at once and get real clean real fast and change my health in a month! Oh, well...!) Others may do too much, too fast (as I believe White1 did). Our standard OP protocol from Dr. Karach recommends using one of two lighter oils -- sunflower and sesame I think -- maybe that is because Dr. Karach's experience with the more "powerful" oils was that people suffered too much, as White1 did.

Certainly nobody wants to see anyone's health get worse. But it is the overwhelming experience of many, many people that things can get "worse" before they get better. I just don't want to see anyone throw the baby out with the bathwater. One thing I have learned about all of this is that you have to trust the process.

I have seen since coming around Curezone that some people post about their unusual or atypical experience and the post will go without a reply. I used to think that was because the community did not want to deal with a doubter. I have come to realize this is not the case. There is plenty of room for doubt on this forum, at least, and for experience that is not consistent with the norm (of course, after a point, it becomes fodder for "debate" rather than "support," but that is a whole 'nother ball of yarn). I think people are reluctant to offer advice around things they don't know about.

This is not about criticizing or challenging anyone's experience, and it is in no way about sending a message that "We don't believe you/we will ignore you because your experience was bad/inconsistent." The recent thread started by someone who had very severe and unbearable detox symptoms was about trying to coax someone out of the certainty of their belief (in this case, her/his idea that these were not detox symptoms) and from there, into the realm of faith that there are protocols that can address such toxicity without as much pain. Certainty v. faith is a big struggle and many prefer to sit in the certainty that their beliefs are the true ones until they suffer badly enough. Indeed, many people stay there until they die. And I am talking mental, physical, and spiritual.

I will be the first person, in the future, when I see a newcomer deciding to start OP, to consider White1's experience and suggest sesame or sunflower as a beginner oil and to recommend not using oil of oregano, for instance (which I believe caused my terrible reaction at the beginning!), with it until they have established a baseline experience. There is no greater demonstration of my absolute belief in the power of negative experience than to do just that -- use it to caution someone who may want to start.

Happy pulling,

Laura