sterol stones and saponification debunked

hveragerthi has made two distinct assertions.

1) Liver Flush stones are caused by saponification of olive oil resulting in soap stones
2) Liver Flush stones are formed from a sterol/cholesterol complex with the cholesterol coming from bile


i will disprove both of these.

how to make olive oil soap from:

http://www.organizewithbaskets.com/olive-oil-soapmaking.htm


olive oil has a lye SAP value of 135.3

this means it takes 135.3 mg of LYE to saponify 1 gram of olive oil

lye, also known as sodium hydroxide, the active ingredient in Drano is extremly alkaline --
a very dangerous and caustic substance.

to saponify 4 ounces of olive oil it takes roughly .425 ounces of liquid drano.
to saponify 8 ounces of oil it takes almost an ounce, or half a shot glass of lye.


stomach acid is, not surprisingly acid, not alkaline, so we aren't getting any magical sodium hydroxide or lye from
stomach acid.

the most alkaline substance in the body is bile...

people doing Liver Flushes have impaired or even no bile flow. some people have done Liver Flushes while jaundiced.

bile has a ph of 7.5 - 8.8

sodium hydroxide has a ph of 12-14. this is orders of magnitudes more alkaline than bile since ph operates on a logarithmic scale.
sodium hydroxide is 100,000 - 3,000,000 times more alkaline than bile.

read that again. sodium hydroxide, the substance that will saponify olive oil
is 100,000 - 3,000,000 times more alkaline than bile.

this is why no one would ever in their right minds ingest lye.

and why the human body does not produce anything so caustic that it can kill itself.

ingesting lye (sodium hydroxide) will cause this to happen to tissue:




not to mention that the reaction of lye with acid is extremely exothermic (produces a lot of heat)
and would also result in a heat burn.

the human body does not manufacture anything
in the ballpark of such a caustic substance.

lemon juice and grapefruit juice have a ph of about 3.3 which is acid not alkaline.

Epsom Salts have a ph of about 7.3

where is the the sodium hydroxide coming from in this supposed saponification?

even if bile was reacting with the oil, it is not alkaline enough to saponify the oil.
when bile interacts with fat it DIGESTS fat. that is the purpose of bile.

hence the stones produced by Liver Flushes have in fact been expelled from the liver or gall bladder.

part 1 has been disproved.

on to part 2:

here hveragerthi has completely contradicted himself

//www.curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1666475#i


when he says 'sterol rich' olive oil. actually olive is at the low end of vegetable oils as far as sterols are concerned. rice bran oil seems
to have the most phytosterols in.

see the original post, 4 ounces of olive oil has a whopping .004 grams of sterol. 2 grains of sand worth.

i wouldn't exactly call 2 grains of sand 'sterol rich'


hveragerthi has created a brand name called 'real' gallstones. this is a tactic of obfuscation since both
allopaths and alternative health practitioners alike agree
that there are different types of stones. bile, cholesterol, pigment, and calcified stones. people have reported all of these
from doing liver flushes, but it seems like the green bile stones are the most numerous.

from the same thread someone asked this...

Bottom line it really is that simple to prove if Liver-Flush doesn't work. I just want a non-LF ingredient formula to cause said
reaction within 12 hours give or take an hour, not more discussion.

but this is impossible, because people have been ingesting oil for thousands of years and no one reports stones.


and now we have the claim that .004 grams of sterol in olive is reacting with the small amounts of bile in people with impaired bile flow or even complete bile occlusion
to create sterol-cholesterol stones.

all you have to do is browse in the pictures section the copious amounts of stones produced during the flushes to see that things aren't adding up.
2 grains of sand of plant sterol and impaired bile flow are not going to produce the hundreds and hundreds of stones reported and photographed.

to absolutely prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that his sterol hypothesis is incorrect let's up the ante...

let's supply cholesterol in the form of crab, egg yolks, beef,liver, shrimp, lobster, or any high cholesterol food.

you name it, have a cholesterol party. in fact, hveragerthi has provided no reason why this reaction needs to take place within the body.
so just combine any cholesterol rich food, hydrochloric acid and olive oil in a test tube and see if you can produce sterol stones.

or if you want the intestine to be your laboratory:
have 8 ounces of lobster salad or crab salad made with olive oil mayonaise. now at least we KNOW that
all of the ingredients in his sterol/cholesterol magic potion are being supplied.

why has no one in the history of the world ever discovered what hveragerthi asserts is such a commonplace occurrence?

how many people eat crab, shrimp or lobster salad? millions?
why don't all of the patrons of Red Lobster report sterol/cholesterol stones after eating there?


case closed

beyond this is a little pesky bugger called repeatability.
many people have brought this up before, with no satisfactory response.
if these are indeed chemical reactions with the olive oil, then it should be easily repeatable.
no one to date has had any consistency with their liver flushes, and in the vast majority of cases after a certain number of flushes
the stones disappear no matter how much olive oil they take.

what could cause such a cessation of the laws of chemistry? why isnt' this supposedly simple chemical reaction repeatable?

it isn't.

modern medicine may certainly have its flaws, but no one has questioned the assertion that bile digests fats.
why now is bile creating stones out of fat instead of digesting it?