lololol, but yet you'll trust the word of some old miner hiding in Mexico.......
lmao.

Hello Okie918,

Let the record also show that I did seriously reply to your question. My reply was:

"Hello Okie918,

I am glad to hear that you recovered from your illness.

I believe I actually said that chlorine dioxide is used to remove biofilm in industry, and there is no reason to think that it wouldn't do the same inside the body. However, no testing has been done using acidified sodium chlorite ingested by humans.

My qualifications are simple. I am a gold prospector and have worked with NASA launching rockets... [big smile icon]

And, please don't limit your discussions to chemists, talk to medical professionals too. If you travel, you may find visiting the Center for Biofilm Engineering at Montana State University well worth your efforts to get there.

Tom"

sooooooo, let me see if I undertand your point..
since we already have drugs and chemicals that the FDA approves that can damage you, it should be our right to use something that ISNT FDA approved that can damage you too!
Is that what you're saying?

Hello #132048,

That is what this debate is all about.

Jim Humble claims millions have been cured of disease. You claim hundreds of thousands have successfully overcome a myriad of challenges, and done so safely.

However, when an attempt to verify those claims is made, the actual numbers fall short of the claims.

On the Miracle-Mineral-Supplement support forum on CureZone several thousands of people have reported their experience following the Miracle-Mineral-Supplement protocol. Most of the comments involve experiencing chlorine dioxide poisoning as reported by experiencing nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea. Out of those vast thousands numbers that are seeking better health, 89 have come forward and suggested that they have received some benefit from following the Miracle-Mineral-Supplement protocol, and when you check those stories out, many have combined other treatments along with MMS, so it is difficult to know if the benefit was from MMS or the other treatments.

I would venture to suggest that I could find a lot more than 89 people out of several hundred thousand that consider french fries a benefit to their lives...

Rather than diverging into everything that can harm and kill people, let's focus the discussion on the flawed MMS protocol. If everyone actually understood oxidation therapy and were in tune with the needs of their bodies, the FDA may have never received any complaints, and MMS would still be "under the radar." Unfortunately, people are blindly following a protocol that is being developed by someone that has little medical understanding, and a very limited understanding of chemistry.

Originally, Jim Humble claimed that chlorine dioxide would eliminate all pathogens. Now he claims that if that doesn't work, try hypochlorous acid. Originally the goal was to increase the amount to end up with 30 - 45 drops a day and after a week of that you would be cleared of all pathogens. Suddenly it has been "discovered" that the lifetime of chlorine dioxide in the body is less than what was originally "discovered," and the drops need to be taken every two hours instead of large doses 2 - 3 times a day. Originally, anyone could mix up a dose of MMS. Now, it is looking like you need a week or two of training before you can be effective with it. Originally Jim Humble claimed that he had measured the concentration of the dose at a concentration of 1 PPM. Recently Jim Humble admitted that he didn't know how much chlorine dioxide was released in his doses.

There are medical professionals looking at these chemicals. Dr. Hesselink seems to have a pretty good handle on the idea of oxidative stress. He comments on the various things that interact with these chemicals, and suggests taking a dose 1 - 3 times a week.

Who has a better understanding of the effects, both positive and negative, of these chemicals inside the body? I hope people like Dr. Hesselink will continue with their testing and actually develop a safe and effective use for this oxidation therapy inside the human body.

The MMS protocol is flawed. I find that most people change it to something more manageable, and their changes often match what the people like Dr. Hesselink say is a more reasonable approach. Jim Humble may have something that works for simple malaria, but most of the people following the MMS protocol don't have malaria.

Other controversial oxidizers like hydrogen peroxide and ozone have been promoted to kill all pathogens. This has lead to testing and studies to determine effectiveness and methods of application across a broad spectrum of medical professionals. Independently, there has been an agreement on the suitability and method of application of these oxidizers. With the flawed MMS protocol, Jim Humble seems to try to eliminate independent review, and when he is found wrong in his claims, he sidetracks to bost of the numbers of bottles of MMS that have been sold, and offers no evidence of his testing that lead to his claims. For example: Jim Humble claims that a dose of MMS only has a concentration of 1 PPM, yet hundreds of tests done by many people indicate otherwise. Chlorine dioxide test strips can be purchased and a person can do their own tests to verify this.

The argument goes on... So what. The concentration of chlorine dioxide is higher than what Jim Humble claims. So what.

Well, the safety of these chemicals is based upon concentrations in the 1 - 2 PPM range. When you exceed that by several hundred times, you then carry the responsibility of demonstrating that the much higher concentration does not harm, and all the testing showing that it does is wrong and here is the data that backs that up.

I agree that sodium chlorite is a very valuable chemical. However, it is not the only chemical that works. The problem with sodium chlorite is that it takes training and education to be able to use it correctly and safely. Chlorine dioxide is a killer. It does not boost the immune system. I believe hydrogen peroxide and ozone actually break down to components that boost the immune system, but chlorine dioxide breaks down to chlorite. The chlorite circulates throughout the body and in animals has a half life of a little over 40 hours. Eventually, some of this breaks all the way down to chloride, but chlorite is the disinfection by product that is capable of damaging the body.

Jim Humble claims that the MMS protocol is safe for everyone including pregnant women and children. He bases that claim on the fact that chlorine dioxide is approved for disinfecting drinking water. Yet the studies done on using chlorine dioxide to purify drinking water indicate that in animals the concentrations involved with the MMS protocol produced neurological and developmental "issues." This sounds like just the thing that pregnant women and children should be taking.

I advise people to approach this with a critical mind. Read the studies, compare the concentrations used and the methods involved in using the chemicals, and decide if the studies support Jim Humbles claims. In addition, pick up some basic testing supplies and run your own tests to verify the concentrations involved with the MMS protocol. I believe a package of chlorine dioxide test strips runs around $10 and most people have access to measuring cups and a pet syringe for accurate measuring.

As I have mentioned before, there are thousands of uses for chlorine dioxide and acidified sodium chlorite. They are great products as long as they are used correctly, safely, and responsibly.

Tom

Hello Taluson,

I am glad to hear you are getting better.

One issue with Miracle-Mineral-Supplement is the numbers. Jim Humble claims that millions have taken Miracle-Mineral-Supplement but only a few hundred or maybe a thousand have reported improvements. 4 years ago when this tread was started the positive reports listed here were only 89. 4 years later we have millions and millions that Jim Humble claims to have taken Miracle-Mineral-Supplement and the improvements have increased from 89 to 130.

So if I offer you a man made chemical that works 130 out of millions and millions tries, are you still interested?

The exception to this is malaria. In the short term it appears that MMS works to eliminate malaria for a day or two but Jim Humble has never gone back to an area to see if the results are holding a week or a month or a few months later. Or to check what side effects were encountered.

Sodium chlorite is manufactured from chlorine dioxide. It is a more stable form of chlorine dioxide. It has an alkaline pH and to release the chlorine dioxide from it you need to drop the pH of the solution by adding an acid. The lower you drop the pH the more chlorine dioxide released. The concentration of the initial sodium chlorite solution determines how much chlorine dioxide is available for release.

You have discovered that PPM refers to concentration. Let's compare MMS use and water treatment use. Water treatment uses 2 PPM free chlorine dioxide to disinfect the water and limits residual chlorite to 0.8 PPM. When chlorine dioxide breaks down it looses an electron and forms chlorite. Chlorite is a disinfection by product of using chlorine dioxide. Chlorine dioxide is extremely unstable. Chlorite is very stable.

MMS calls for drinking a solution that has over 300 PPM available chlorine dioxide (as chlorite) and by activating it somewhere in the range of 30 - 70 PPM of the available is released as free chlorine dioxide depending upon the activation time. Keep in mind that all the safety studies done with water treatment were using much lower concentrations.

Does it make sense to you that safety studies done at 2 PPM also indicate that it is safe to go to 300 PPM?

When you ingest a poison you body fights against it and you experience nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea. Does this sound familiar? A little poison may have some benefit but that doesn't mean that if a little is OK a whole lot more is better.

Jim Humble continues to ignore the side effects of long term exposure to this man made chemical. Chlorite reduces the hormone levels in the body and seems to reduce cellular magnesium, calcium, iron, phosphorus, and sulfur. Unfortunately testing for cellular levels of these essential minerals is controversial and expensive. This limits the number of people that are willing to follow up on this. In spite of that early results are showing a trend.

What isn't clear is how much is too much and how long is too long.

That covers the basics. If you have particular questions spell them out. Understand that there are numerous uses of sodium chlorite, chlorine dioxide, and chlorous acid and water treatment is high on the list of uses. Many point out that the body is made up of mostly water and it is entertaining to think that something that purifies water may also purify the body. However if you ever need a transfusion I don't think you want bags of water put into your body... You would quickly die regardless of how pure the water was.

Tom